Fallout 4’s Character System

Grifman said:
Zerginfestor said:
Paladin Waffles said:
You are right, I forgot about a few of those, specifically cowboy and grunt, however I don't believe those perks were ranked, now that perks like that are ranked you can boost damage significantly instead of just a 25 percent boost.
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Yeah, but ranked perks in Fallout 4 are probably more focused on grinding implications to make yourself feel like you're achieving something. So instead of +25%, it's +5% per rank, with 5 ranks in. So ranked perks are mostly useless shite to make people feel like they're making progress when they're not.
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I can tell you didn't even read what Bethesda said so let me quote an example for you:

Gun Fu above allows even more damage the more targets you select, increasing to instant Critical Shots. Gunslinger has ranks that up the range of pistols, add a chance to disarm enemies, and even instant limb crippling shots. Strong Back doesn’t just up the amount you can carry; higher ranks of it allow you to fast-travel while encumbered or even run while encumbered at the cost of Action Points.
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So adding ranks to perks just doesn't add 5% per level of damage, additional levels allow you to do truly unique things, they are further specializations in that perk.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people rant about things they haven't read :)
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I wasn't ranting, but if you're gonna be an asshole towards the least hostile person on here, then you best think twice. Not only that, you haven't taken account that there will be a chance of perks that WILL have the ranking issue that I stated, such as Bloody Mess. Now how does that feel, being the asshole here? I love how you nitpicked towards me instead of being a friendly person towards another in correction.
 
Walpknut said:
Making all perks ranked just removes the uniqueness of them, they are no longer a Special bonus you work towards, they are just routine.
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It also removes the need to really think about combinations and synergies in order to make your character really powerful, you just take max ranks in "make this gun good".

Like if you wanted to be disgustingly effective with laser weapons in New Vegas you could use the appropriate sex-perks, light touch, bloody mess, the professional, vigilant recycler, finesse, better criticals, sniper, better criticals, meltdown, laser commander, and you'll want to unlock both levels of "Set Lasers for Fun"; have a luck of 10; and wear Ulysses' Duster, 1st Recon Beret, and wield Pew-Pew. All those perks do different things, and the power of the build depends on stacking crit chance bonuses, crit power bonuses, and a weapon with high crit damage and a very large crit multiplier.

That you're competing with "increase damage by 25%" limits design space for fun or weird perks, and discourages people from taking those.

Leveling up in Skyrim was just "take the next thing that makes me good at fighting" and it'll be much the same for Fallout 4 it seems.
 
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Walpknut said:
So they are rolling multiple old perks into one, that doesn't take away the fact that they removed Skills or that the Dialogue now works like a Jedi Mind trick.

Also that Perk Chart UI makes me think Modding perks in will be very difficult and or Janky.
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But the point is that each rank is not an arbitrary increase for ALL perks.

Agreed on skills, but on dialogue, you haven't actually seen Speech in action, so...

Agreed
 
I haven't seen speec in action but the Charisma and it's perk descriptions all alude to "Make it easier to persuade" in dialogue. So it's more than obviously working on a Percentage chance, just like it did in FO3.
 
What you say can still be different at different levels- saying one thing may give me a 20 percent chance of succeeding, while another gives me 60.
 
So they make the dog immortal because people always loaded up a save-game when he died.

But when people just save-scummed their way into passing speech-checks, you just kind of leave it be?

That's a baffler meal right there.
 
Walpknut said:
So they are rolling multiple old perks into one, that doesn't take away the fact that they removed Skills or that the Dialogue now works like a Jedi Mind trick.

Also that Perk Chart UI makes me think Modding perks in will be very difficult and or Janky.
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It's worse, I don't think the perks even have an effect on dialog, it's all combat. "Intimidation perk! REQ Charisma 10 Aim your gun at a character bellow your level and you have a chance to pacify them." It's really disappointing.
 
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Percentage based Speech checks are dumb, like what? Did my character stutter the first time I picked the dialogue choice? Why did it work now and not before whe nmy character is apparently saying the exact same thing?
 
Zerginfestor said:
I wasn't ranting,
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Sure you were, but call it what you want. We'll just disagree.

but if you're gonna be an asshole towards the least hostile person on here,
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Asshole? Seriously? All I did was chide you for posting without even reading what Bethesda was doing. I certainly didn't call you a name or call you stupid or ignorant or anything like that :)

[
then you best think twice.
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Really? Should I be worried? :)

Not only that, you haven't taken account that there will be a chance of perks that WILL have the ranking issue that I stated, such as Bloody Mess.
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Perhaps, some will be. But rather than treat speculations as fact and get all worked up about them as you did, why don't we just wait for the facts?

Now how does that feel, being the asshole here?
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If anything, you seem to have surpassed me so how does that feel?

I love how you nitpicked towards me instead of being a friendly person towards another in correction.
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I will say that I apologize for offending you. I just get tired of people talking about something when they haven't even taken the time to get the facts. But I am seriously sorry that I offended you.
 
Walpknut said:
Percentage based Speech checks are dumb, like what? Did my character stutter the first time I picked the dialogue choice? Why did it work now and not before whe nmy character is apparently saying the exact same thing?
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It's one of those things that's a holdover from tabletop that hasn't really been thought through all the way apparently. Like the ethos of "you always have a chance to succeed, or fail in a dramatically significant moment" is valuable, but when you're playing a game with other people you have them to hold each other accountable in terms of what the dice or the cards or whatever show. But when you're playing a single player game (particularly one with quicksaves and multiple save slots) there's a strong ethos of "that thing which the game allows to happen, that I want to happen, will happen provided I am sufficiently persistant" basically means that having a (visible) random chance for something to happen basically just adds tedium. Like any time you see a [Speech: 25%] on the screen, the outcome of that is going to happen if the player wants it to, it's just a question of reloading about 4 times.

You can try to get around this by making more elaborate conversation trees with lots of layered checks in order to dissuade players from savescumming, but really you're just making it more tedious to do so.
 
I wonder how they honestly can say this is GOTY.

If this becomes GOTY instead of better games like Witcher 3. I'm going to fucking discredit any and all GOTY entries.
 
We all know everyone is going to go HAM on this system here, hell, anything related to Bethesda is shit here. Why don't we just put it in the News Statement to begin with? "Bethesda Ruins the SPECIAL System Even Further". Honestly, the insistence on neutrality when it clearly doesn't exist is like a sarcastic charade at this point.
 
Well Dragon Age Inquisition is getting a so called "GOTY" release, which is really just the game and all its expansions. Its not really that great of a game either. They do that for a lot of stuff, but don't always call it "GOTY" - which is more like a marketing gimmick.

But of course it will get some sort of 'GOTY' type award for the year of is release. It'll be the most Minecraft + invincible Dogmeat Fallout simulator ever.

If FO4 were to somehow beat Witcher 3 in the story category in particular, then I would definitely lose hope in general. There is no way in hell FO4 can beat Witcher 3's effective choice-consequence/meaningful story-driven experience - not with what I've seen from past Beth games.

I honestly have no intention of buying FO4 for its release at this point. I learned my lesson pre-ordering FO3 back in the day to give it a "chance." The gunplay looks like the only improvement for "FPS" FO and that's it so far - which they got help from in-house folks (remnants of id software). Maybe when its 5 bucks on sale in 2 years?
 
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Btw, If anyone of you are fans of Confirmed Bachelor perk, You're kind of fucked because i don't see it anywhere. It wouldn't make sense for it to be a rank considering the fact it means totally different things and would be for a male. This probably also mean's Le Cheme Fae is also not in the game. If it is. Pretty damn hidden.
 
TheRedMan said:
We all know everyone is going to go HAM on this system here, hell, anything related to Bethesda is shit here. Why don't we just put it in the News Statement to begin with? "Bethesda Ruins the SPECIAL System Even Further". Honestly, the insistence on neutrality when it clearly doesn't exist is like a sarcastic charade at this point.
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News is neutral and comment sections aren't. The role of a news post is news first then to facilitate discussion. Both of those roles is done best with a mostly neutral tone. And if we were going to be snark central we would try to be a bit more elegant than "Bethesda Ruins the SPECIAL System Even Further".
 
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