Fallout 4 announced with official trailer

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by Sander, Jun 3, 2015.

  1. Guiltyofbeingtrite

    Guiltyofbeingtrite Vault Dweller

    751
    Oct 13, 2008
    Admins, can we build the Fallout 4 board? Probably easier to have this broken into different conversations.

    I feel like this will be better than 3, in the same sense Skyrim was better than Oblivion. Fully commit to the idea that's been true for 10 years for Beth that this is an action game first, an exploration game second, and an RPG third.
     
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  2. Bernard Bumner's corpse

    Bernard Bumner's corpse Slowly decomposing

    15
    Jun 3, 2015
    Did you find that play style even remotely satisfyingly? Personally, I found the non-violent solutions were often underwritten, but in any case, you couldn't really avoid combat in the wastes.

    I thought that the peaceful game barely worked.
     
  3. mef

    mef Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    482
    Dec 29, 2014
    I didn't find any play style even remotely satisfying in F3

    but to be fair, in F1/F2 you also couldn't always avoid combat, althought it is possible to finish these games without attacking once.
     
  4. Bernard Bumner's corpse

    Bernard Bumner's corpse Slowly decomposing

    15
    Jun 3, 2015
    Fair enough. But I would definitely argue that the combat experience was more fun than the dialogue, just because everything wanted to kill you anyway. You can't have a meaningful discussion with pop-gun targets.
     
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  5. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Well, it's the same way they opened in Fallout 3, which was a bit different than what was shown in Fallout 1/2. Personally I don't mind it.
     
  6. Apocalypse Jack

    Apocalypse Jack First time out of the vault

    6
    Jun 4, 2015
    Finally stopped lurking... guess I might've have picked the wrong time to do it though.


    Seems like 'announcement week' is when all the angry people from both sides of the fanbase come out to hurl rocks at each other. I guess I should've seen it coming. Same thing happened for Fallout 3, same thing for Fallout: New Vegas. Just goes to show you how true the saying is: "War never changes."

    I think I'll wait until there's some more things to talk about before getting too much more invested in the conversation.
     
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  7. Hellion

    Hellion Antediluvian Lurker

    449
    Jun 20, 2003
    You don't see rocks being hurled from both sides, to be fair. You have the "I'm cautiously optimistic" people, the "meh, this is probably gonna suck" people and the "OMG why the negativity, I registered just to say that whoever bashes the game is lying and will end up buying it anyway so just stop whining" people. Only see one of these as hurling any kinds of rocks.
     
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  8. Marionettetc

    Marionettetc Banned

    204
    May 15, 2013
    Understood.

    The realization I've come to as I've gotten older and been through the Fallout 1/2 to Fallout 3 transition in many different parts of my life, is that it's just a generational gap issue. While I was playing Fallout 1 when I was around 16 - the same younger kids are playing Fallout 3.

    They don't know any better, and to them - Bethesda level games are the gold standard of "RPG" games. They embody the twitch generation of FPS games and have a "RPG" retexture, which is just a sorted number system of skills and attributes that largely don't affect the gameplay.

    Few seem to have table top experience, which is obviously the origin of Role playing games, and they approach these games believing that their character has agency to affect the chosen game's world. It's simply not the case though, because (especially) Bethesda games usually boil the story down into quests where you can either open door A or door B and then be punished or rewarded accordingly.

    The reason why I enjoyed Fallout 1 and 2 so much were that you had the choice to do some pretty fucked up things, and you weren't "punished" for being evil. Your actions weren't always judged on some arbitrary scale of good/evil, but you definitely had to live with the consequences of your actions. The same applies for being rewarded for being "Good". You weren't always rewarded, and sometimes you were even singled out as a mark/goody two shoes as would be expected of a world where society and civility had largely disintegrated.

    The same situations in 3 boiled down to binary Good/Bad and you received or lost Karma accordingly. These type of micro rewards are the same type of lazy positive reinforcement as giving out a perk every level instead of every 3.

    I think I'm starting to ramble. Original point of my post was to illustrate that Fallout 3 fans literally speak a different language compared to us, so reasonable discourse or even meaningful discussions won't be productive.
     
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  9. I eat supermutants

    I eat supermutants I'm your friend, Jesus.

    117
    Nov 30, 2013
    Well it looks like some Brotherhood of Steel swag landed in their shop. Don't know if that is a good indicator or not of the return of the BoS but the surprising number of people with a boner for that faction that exist would not be surprising.
     
  10. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    I hope they don't "revamp" the stats system to the Skyrim model... that would suck.
     
  11. mdf_365

    mdf_365 Wasteland Pleb

    43
    Jun 2, 2015
    Felt like the airships were a strong indicator of BoS involvement, we'll see soon from E3?
     
  12. WastedWastelander

    WastedWastelander First time out of the vault

    13
    Feb 27, 2015
    Personally, I would hate it if it had a voiced protagonist.
    Do I hate every game with a voiced protagonist? No.. I do not care about it in The Witcher or Mass Effect but this is Fallout. A game in which you can create your own character doesn't need a voiced protagonist, simply because it significantly will lower the conversation choices but also because I want to imagine the voice in my head, like if I want a nerdy character, a bruiser, a marine or a redneck I want to fantasize that shit! :)
     
  13. WastedWastelander

    WastedWastelander First time out of the vault

    13
    Feb 27, 2015
    That would be one of my worst fears but Bethesda would not do that ........... right? ......... right?..........
     
  14. Todd Howard's #1 Fan

    Todd Howard's #1 Fan First time out of the vault

    69
    Sep 21, 2009
    As psyched as I am to behold the unveiling of Fallout 4's first ever gameplay footage (which will in all likelihood be narrated by Todd Howard at E3), I think Bethesda would be overlooking a couple of "fat men" in the room if some critical story elements are not discussed.

    1.) Tying up loose ends with the east coast Enclave: Have we really dealt with the last remnants of the Enclave? If so what type of overshadowing threat will we face in Boston?

    2.) The legacy of the Lone Wanderer: Fallout 3 and Broken Steel had several endings, which ultimately determined the fate of Lyons Pride and much of the DC wasteland in general. Which of these endings are considered canon and how will they impact the Boston wasteland?

    3.) Lyons Pride and the rebuilding of Liberty Prime: Assuming Lyons Pride still exists and the Enclave are in fact rebuilding, how well-equipped are the brotherhood to engage them in another large-scale conflict? It seems Liberty Prime was essential to Brotherhood victory in DC, we may not be so lucky in Boston. Perhaps allying the Brotherhood with the Institute will determine this.

    4.) Unanswered questions regarding Mothership Zeta: The lone wandered dealt a nasty blow to the aliens in Mothership Zeta, yet countless questions go unanswered. It's understandable Bethesda did not have the time or resources to wrap up the whole alien story-arc, but hopefully Fallout 4 is up for this task. Why were these beings so heavily invested in Earth? What could they have possibly gained from starting the great war in 2077? Judging by their impact on Fallout lore they almost seem like overarching antagonists who are pulling all the strings.
     
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  15. peadar87

    peadar87 Still Mildly Glowing

    244
    Jun 4, 2015
    So I'm not holding out much hope for the dialogue, I think Bethesda is a lost cause on that one (nothing was more immersion-breaking than encountering Moira Brown and trying to come to terms with the fact that she was intended to be some sort of believable character). However, I think Skyrim has actually given me some hope that the game won't be quite so disappointing* as FO3.

    The main quest was bland, you're the chosen one, you must defeat the dragons by killing them to death with murder. This is because you are the Chosen One. Good fun, but a bit formulaic and not ground-breaking.

    However, I think the world was very well-made, and made sense in the context of the game. Towns have a reason to exist, there are farms, markets, inns, ports, cities make sense to be where they are. Combat, while again not amazing was interesting enough to soak up a decent amount of time without boring me completely.

    What I will give them credit for is the concept of the civil war. Two sides, with neither being wholly in the right. Side with the empire, and you sign up for religious persecution and a healthy dollop of authoritarianism, side with the Stormcloaks, and you're helping spread xenophobia, insularism, and destabilising Tamriel at a time when it really needs to be united against external threats. It couldn't be further from the Boyscouthood of Steel from FO3 (although they lose points for leaving the civil war questline far less flashed out than the Kill the Dragons one)

    Hopefully they can come up with something equally or more interesting for FO4 (and don't just troll us with androids!)



    *When I say it was disappointing, that's not to say I didn't quite enjoy it for what it was, a reasonably fun action adventure game that held up okay so long as you didn't focus too hard on the dialogue, or the shallowness of the plot. It was disappointing in the sense of what it quite easily could have been, with only a few changes:

    -Ditch some of the more egregious failures. Bury Little Lamplight, and make sure Sticky is impaled by a particularly sharp stalactite. Rewrite the Superhuman Gambit, which had potential to be interesting, but was abysmally executed, break Liberty Prime apart for scrap, have a long hard think about whether vampires belong in a Fallout game, etc.

    -Make the minor factions a little less one-dimensional, raiders should be pragmatic, rather than psychotic. They shouldn't charge power-armoured juggernauts with tyre irons and pool cues, why would they do that? They have no chance of robbing them. Talon Company should have some sort of backstory. Instead of existing purely to hunt you down, maybe they could be hired to guard caravans, heck, using your barter skill to get them to guard Big Town (which now has a completely different backstory of its own) would be a pretty decent quest resolution.

    -Most importantly, the main quest and factions. Still use a water purifier as a central doohickey if you're that attached to the idea, but the boyscouts/pure evil thing has to go.
    o The Real Brotherhood, with all the cool toys and the fortress in the Pentagon? They're the assholes who worship technology and don't want to share. They have no interest in the purifier, but they really hate...
    o The Outcasts. A small band of Brotherhood people who decided they wanted to use technology to help the wastelanders. The Brotherhood see them as traitors, and shoot on sight. The Outcasts are vastly outnumbered and outgunned by the Brotherhood, and also by...
    o The Enclave. Led by President Eden (who is not a computer). He has nothing but contempt for anyone he sees as not being an American of pure genetic stock, and wants to wipe them out so his American supermen can rule the post-apocalyptic world. He is unaware of a contingent within his own organisation, led by...
    o Colonel Augustus Autumn. Who believes just as passionately as his president in the superiority of the Enclave, but sees its place as dominating and ruling over the human inhabitants of the wasteland. He wants to mount a coup against Eden and his loyalists, and restore law and order (and unquestioned totalitarianism) to the Capital region.

    The main questline would be a choice between
    - the Outcasts (very hard, poor numbers, not much gear, but the "good" ending. You would need to either defeat the Brotherhood, or smooth over relations between the two factions, before facing down the threat from the Enclave. Ending slides would show how, in spite of your best efforts, they didn't have the power to keep order in the wasteland, and it remained full of warring factions, raiders, and mutants)

    - The Brotherhood (significantly easier, more numbers, better gear, but with no interest in helping the wastelanders, ending slides show them becoming powerful and more or less unopposed)

    -The Enclave (The "easiest" option in the game. As a pure blooded vault dweller, you can simply join them and go around killing everything that moves in the wasteland if that's your cup of tea. Ending slides, pretty much as you'd expect. Slightly more subtly, you can engineer a coup (or just butcher Eden and his loyalists) and put Colonel Autumn in charge, whereupon you fight the Brotherhood for control of the wasteland (or play the two factions of the Brotherhood off against each other until they destroy each other), in which case, ending slides show a wasteland where people for the most part have safety and security, unless they challenge the authority of the Enclave, in which case, they are publicly dispatched with a 9mm round to the cerebellum).

    Of course, Bethesda, and most other game developers, would never have the balls to write a game where the ending that worked out the best for the denizens of the wasteland wasn't to side with the immediately obvious "good guys".

    Anyway, that went off topic quickly.

    tl;dr: Maybe Fallout 4 won't suck, Fallout 3 could have been much better, but I still had fun playing it.
     
  16. WastedWastelander

    WastedWastelander First time out of the vault

    13
    Feb 27, 2015
    I do expect Fallout 4 to be a fun game to dick around in but when it comes to writing I don't have much hope for this game.
     
  17. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Only if you don't dare to dig to deep in Skyrim, I think the game has its quality, no doubts about that. The visuals are O.K. and the art style in particular is really good. Bethesda has really some of the best concept artists there are, or at least they hire the right freelancers no clue. They always do a splendid job.

    But once it all starts to wear off, the visuals I mean, you realize how extremly small and bland the world actually really is, killing what feels like the milionth draugr in the same copy pasta ruin. I like how the towns have their own art style and yeah, they really improved them compared to the previous games. No doubts about that. But I still have a problem with all the epic stuff they hamfist in to it. I mean a civil war which brings the whole empire to it's knees with 5 people attacking a town? Most of the landscape and world is pretty underwhelming when you think about what it is supposed to represent. A whole province.

    Some people describe Beth games as Single Player MMOs, which kinda fitts very nicely ...
     
  18. peadar87

    peadar87 Still Mildly Glowing

    244
    Jun 4, 2015

    I was never as dead set against the space compression as many here seem to be. Perhaps because I came to the series with New Vegas, and only played the earlier titles afterwards. I'm happy enough to suspend my disbelief that you can walk from Hoover Dam to Las Vegas in a few minutes, and I don't find it that hard to do. At least, not as hard as I find it to gloss over terrible dialogue and nonsensical plot lines.

    The tiny armies fighting supposedly epic battles is slightly more difficult to get around. I think New Vegas got around it to some degree by making the missions you were involved in more one-man infiltration or assassination jobs (except for the final battle. I think with the limits of the engine, they should have had you sneaking around the main body of the dam to assassinate Lanius/Oliver while it was implied there was a huge battle going on there, instead of having you run straight through the middle of the massive Legion assault of approximately 10 guys)


    Edit: My point about Skyrim wasn't really about any of that though, the actual set-pieces weren't that well executed, the whole "5 guys assaulting a city" thing, but the actual lore behind the civil war questline was, I found, quite interesting, whereas the lore and back story behind the main questline of FO3 was dire. Hooray for improvement :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2015
  19. Continental Op

    Continental Op First time out of the vault

    13
    Jun 3, 2015
    My bad, I thought you meant that it would be a good idea if the political world of Fallout were static, leading onto following the formula and all that. On the matter of a static environment, I suppose as long as it doesn't break the willing suspense of disbelief, I wouldn't mind too much. And thanks for finding that link. I was sure there were examples, but I guess I wasn't typing the right thing into google.
     
  20. Cyberfiend

    Cyberfiend First time out of the vault

    69
    Mar 20, 2014
    NGL, if it turns out I can only play as the character I want AFTER completing the (calling it now) horrendously dumb as shit main quest... I'm gonna be BEYOND butthurt