Fallout 4 announced with official trailer

[Walpknut]

You are aware that voice work costs money, right? have you ever played Mass Effect? They have a vocied protagonist so they have to cut down the dialogue options down to about 3 things you can tell a very limited number of NPCs and all of them with very similar reactions from said NPCs. Voiced dialogue on NPCs already cut down on the variety of responses from them (Compare NPCs in the first 2 Fallouts to the ones in New Vegas or any other old rpg to new rpgs).

Also the spirit of Fallout is being able to create your own character and have different experiences everytime you run it, being it from the tangible like Stats and dialogue choices but also on being able to make up it's personality and voice on your own, without having to be Troy Baker doing a gruff guy voice.

I'm well aware of that fact, but I don't see what the big deal is - I think a voice protagonist is great, as not only am I sure that Baker won't be the only available voice to choose from, but it will help the PC feel more like an actual person rather then a carcicature of a person like in all games prior; and I think that's an improvement myself.

As for the second part of your post, I think we have radically different views on what the core of Fallout is, to me it's the story, the atmosphere, the universe and all that coming together to create an immerse and unique game world.

Now you are adding multiple voices to choose, which cuts down dialogue variety even more.... Which again runs AGAINST the spirit of Fallout. If you want to have a defined protagonist, there is plent yof other games where that fits, but not in Fallout.

 

[The Prussian Kaiser]

You must believe i'm some Autistic Fallout 3 player..
So how much does Bethesda pay you to say all that???????

Bethesda paid me nothing, I love Fallout 3; through I think NV had better gameplay and story; I prefer F3's world and general atmosphere (the Mojave sucks ass).

It's the lack of control over my own character experience, for me. I'm playing as a character that the developers made for me, and the more defined the backstory, the less I feel like this character is mine. It's a permutation of a character provided to me. For example, in the Mass Effect series, I never felt like I was Commander Shepard. I had control of Shepard, true, but all my decisions were filtered through him. I also really enjoyed the Mass Effect series, but that's not the sort of thing I play Fallout 4. Blank slates let me fill in the details however I like, and since there are dialogue choices, they aren't mute in my mind either. A voiced protagonist is taking some of that away from me.

The setting is important, yes, but even more important is how a character I created goes about their lives in that setting, and while they may always start at the same point, different characters may end up having very different effects on the Wasteland. Maybe I'm in the minority, maybe some people only play Fallout to see the setting, do all the quests, and the player character is little more than their tool for interacting with the world, but I play characters with personalities and goals that may run counter to my own, or fall in line, or anywhere between the two extremes. I mean, last time I checked I wasn't an amoral raider who prefers her meals made up of freshly killed human meat, or a brilliant roboticist who let's his own greed blind him of the potential good he could do, nor am I a saint who refuses to let the amoral actions of those around him in the wasteland corrupt him from his pacifistic ideals, I am however sometimes that schmuck to runs afoul of a mole rate and becomes its dinner...

The point is, a voiced protagonist, by merit of having to pay a voice actor, and a company having to be concerned about their bottom line, isn't going to provide more dialogue choices than they feel is worth the investment of paying the voice actor. Because in the situation of a voiced protagonist, whereas for each conversation there was only one voice actor to pay, you've now got to pay at least double, if not more if there are more than one voice actor/voice actress for each gender. I may be wrong on some of the figures that are involved, I'm not involved in the game industry, and if someone knows better they're welcome to inform me of the issues with my argument, but as far as I can tell, this is what would be the case with a voiced protagonist, and if I'm correct, something precious is lost as a result.

I suppose that makes sense in a way, maybe I'm the weird one in this regard then - maybe I suck at imagination, but I just really hate mute blank slate characters, they have nothing to them and don't feel like real people, they feel like caricatures; and that makes it harder for me to connect to the game and the character and care about them.

Dialog diversity doesn't *have* to go by the wayside, but it *will*. Costs too much money. Say goodbye to stupid character speech paths as well as skill checks using lesser used skills, like <medicine 50="">...

The stupid character speech paths were idiotic anyway and make no sense at all; a stupid character would die long before he/she could ever help anyone (nor would anyone logically accept the help of a stupid character)</medicine>

 

[The Prussian Kaiser]

You are aware that voice work costs money, right? have you ever played Mass Effect? They have a vocied protagonist so they have to cut down the dialogue options down to about 3 things you can tell a very limited number of NPCs and all of them with very similar reactions from said NPCs. Voiced dialogue on NPCs already cut down on the variety of responses from them (Compare NPCs in the first 2 Fallouts to the ones in New Vegas or any other old rpg to new rpgs).

Also the spirit of Fallout is being able to create your own character and have different experiences everytime you run it, being it from the tangible like Stats and dialogue choices but also on being able to make up it's personality and voice on your own, without having to be Troy Baker doing a gruff guy voice.

I'm well aware of that fact, but I don't see what the big deal is - I think a voice protagonist is great, as not only am I sure that Baker won't be the only available voice to choose from, but it will help the PC feel more like an actual person rather then a carcicature of a person like in all games prior; and I think that's an improvement myself.

As for the second part of your post, I think we have radically different views on what the core of Fallout is, to me it's the story, the atmosphere, the universe and all that coming together to create an immerse and unique game world.

Now you are adding multiple voices to choose, which cuts down dialogue variety even more.... Which again runs AGAINST the spirit of Fallout. If you want to have a defined protagonist, there is plent yof other games where that fits, but not in Fallout.

Does Fallout have some special "soul" that can't be violated? because I don't get the hostility to change that some have on here; I may be weird in that regard through.

 

[Nehanarac]

Do you even understand what the RP in RPG means?

 

[The Prussian Kaiser]

Do you even understand what the RP in RPG means?

Of course, but plenty of RPG's have voiced characters.

 

[Walpknut]

Change is not always good, specially when it doesn't fit something. You wouldn't put pedals on a Wheelchair and call that innovation....

Do you even understand what the RP in RPG means?

Of course, but plenty of RPG's have voiced characters.

And those RPGS are all linear and railroaded without the element of multiple dialogue choices, branching storyline and diverse quest solving like Fallout is supposed to have.

 

[The Prussian Kaiser]

Change is not always good, specially when it doesn't fit something. You wouldn't put pedals on a Wheelchair and call that innovation....

Do you even understand what the RP in RPG means?

Of course, but plenty of RPG's have voiced characters.

And those RPGS are all linear and railroaded without the element of multiple dialogue choices, branching storyline and diverse quest solving like Fallout is supposed to have.

Why do you automatically assume that all of that will go away with the addition of voiced characters?

 

[Walpknut]

Because voice work costs money and the effects of added voicework have already been felt with just voiced NPCs...

 

[Nehanarac]

You can't just dismiss stupid character just because it seems pointless to you. That sort of freedom is what is missing in voiced RPGs...

 

[Walpknut]

Well having a voiced character to help people with no imagination is pointless to me, so....

 

[The Prussian Kaiser]

You can't just dismiss stupid character just because it seems pointless to you. That sort of freedom is what is missing in voiced RPGs...

But it's illogical and frankly insulting to people with mental problems; there are better ways to put comedy in the game then stupid characters.

 

[Walpknut]

It's illogical for people with low intelligence to be idiots?

 

[The Prussian Kaiser]

It's illogical for people with low intelligence to be idiots?

No, it's illogical that they would survive for more then a couple of days or would be accepted to do any of the number of the quests in the game; no one would trust a idiot to do the life and death tasks in the game.

 

[Walpknut]

Well Low Intelligence characters couldn't do a lot of quests, that's just realistic. Also they could have high skills in combat so they could just be dumb muscle characters that can kill whatever they want. I don't see how that's illogical...

 

[Chromevod]

I suppose that makes sense in a way, maybe I'm the weird one in this regard then - maybe I suck at imagination, but I just really hate mute blank slate characters, they have nothing to them and don't feel like real people, they feel like caricatures; and that makes it harder for me to connect to the game and the character and care about them.

Well, think of it in terms of character creation. Even the original Fallouts came with premade characters, with backstories and stats accordingly. But you still had the freedom to make your own. When it comes to blank slates, to get the most out of them, the player needs to put in the effort. Part of what makes Fallout fun, is the way you can make a character to interact with the grand vision that the developers had in mind, that trust that the developers have in you to be able to fill in the gaps yourself. To make your own decisions and live with the consequences, *coughnot3cough* and for the developers to have had the respect for their players to have thought out the scenarios in ways that are satisfying. A voiced protagonist just feels like a slap in the face, and the developers taking away choices from me because they feel the vast majority of the player base cannot be trusted with such a responsibility. How can I not find that just a smidge agitating?

<medicine 50="">The stupid character speech paths were idiotic anyway and make no sense at all; a stupid character would die long before he/she could ever help anyone (nor would anyone logically accept the help of a stupid character)</medicine>

Something to keep in mind with low intelligence characters is that they used to be, frankly, a very elaborate joke, and one many found quite amusing. And you're also right, very few people would accept the help of an imbecile, and the game also reflects that. There are many NPCs who simply will not take the time to deal with an idiot character, or will cheat them out of rewards, or are simply sending them on tasks in the belief that said character will die. This was more immersive, in my opinion, than in in Fallout 3 onward. There is almost no difference between a character with an intelligence of 1, and 10, in terms of dialogue. There was some in New Vegas, but it was limited. And this is something that I think is reasonable to have reflected. A low intelligence character is someone who should be almost completely unable to function as a human being. An intelligence of 3 or below basically means even the dumbest super mutant would either match, or potentially outsmart such a person, and those mutants can barely form cohesive sentences as is!

 

[Marionettetc]

I mean.. I started the series on FO3,

I can assure you, we already knew you did.

 

[Walpknut]

Some people actually dislike having a reactive world that trusts them as intelligent players... I guess that's why the industry is the way it is right now....

 

[WittyUsername]

Stupid characters tend to have something else to substitute for their lack of intelligence. Typically muscles, but in Fallout they can also run like Forest Gump, have the dumb luck aspect, incredible endurance, spot things a mile away. People can also see that.

And besides, in old Fallout games, a lot of people WOULDN'T talk to you without a mentat. Those were even quest important npcs, you were too dumb to finish the game.

 

[The Prussian Kaiser]

I suppose that makes sense in a way, maybe I'm the weird one in this regard then - maybe I suck at imagination, but I just really hate mute blank slate characters, they have nothing to them and don't feel like real people, they feel like caricatures; and that makes it harder for me to connect to the game and the character and care about them.

Well, think of it in terms of character creation. Even the original Fallouts came with premade characters, with backstories and stats accordingly. But you still had the freedom to make your own. When it comes to blank slates, to get the most out of them, the player needs to put in the effort. Part of what makes Fallout fun, is the way you can make a character to interact with the grand vision that the developers had in mind, that trust that the developers have in you to be able to fill in the gaps yourself. To make your own decisions and live with the consequences, *coughnot3cough* and for the developers to have had the respect for their players to have thought out the scenarios in ways that are satisfying. A voiced protagonist just feels like a slap in the face, and the developers taking away choices from me because they feel the vast majority of the player base cannot be trusted with such a responsibility. How can I not find that just a smidge agitating?

I guess that makes sense, maybe I am just too accustomed to my generation's type of games that a more elaborate game like Fallout is way off my normal base.... god I feel a little dumber now...

Something to keep in mind with low intelligence characters is that they used to be, frankly, a very elaborate joke, and one many found quite amusing. And you're also right, very few people would accept the help of an imbecile, and the game also reflects that. There are many NPCs who simply will not take the time to deal with an idiot character, or will cheat them out of rewards, or are simply sending them on tasks in the belief that said character will die. This was more immersive, in my opinion, than in in Fallout 3 onward. There is almost no difference between a character with an intelligence of 1, and 10, in terms of dialogue. There was some in New Vegas, but it was limited. And this is something that I think is reasonable to have reflected. A low intelligence character is someone who should be almost completely unable to function as a human being. An intelligence of 3 or below basically means even the dumbest super mutant would either match, or potentially outsmart such a person, and those mutants can barely form cohesive sentences as is!

Hmm, that makes sense now that I think about it.

 

[Chromevod]

Some people actually dislike having a reactive world that trusts them as intelligent players... I guess that's why the industry is the way it is right now....

Well that's a silly thing to dislike. Especially in something that has its roots in some good ol' classic CRPG goodness...

Of course this is the part where I wonder who I'm trying to fool, and go read a book instead. Oh what a world.