Fallout 76: E3 Trailer

To add to the discussion. If bugthesda really wanted to make shitty shooter with light rpg elements in Fallout world, they could have gone with IT like Atlus.

Split the series into lighter, less hardcore Persona and the Main shin megami tensei series. It worked, fans are happy, both series are popular.

I hate the direction Atlus has gone in. The older devs, writers, and artists have been relegated to handheld games, meanwhile the newer devs get the spotlight with the latest teeny bopper Persona game and those bullshit dancing games. The older devs made and still want to make harder, darker, and more adult-themed games, whereas the newer devs have dumbed much of that down. Even though earlier Persona games involved mainly teenagers and young adults, the themes always got dark and heavy. The later Persona games tend to replace that with angst and anime clichés. I found 3 a grindy bore, whereas 4 improved on many fronts yet still suffered from awful, cringey humor. And both 3 and 4 tossed out demon negotiations for a pre-school level card matching game. Ugh.

Honestly, there's more similarities between the older vs. newer devs of Persona and Fallout. The older one's get shoved aside and forgotten, while the newer devs get all the acclaim and work.
 
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A game with three skills can be just as nuanced as one with eight, Gizmo. You are confusing mechanical complexity with mechanical depth here. If every encounter utilized these "Fix, Break, and Talk" skills to their fullest creative potential, you could still easily have players making the same number of tactical decisions as they would with the real Fallout Skilldex. If not more. A little bit of streamlining isn't always a bad thing when you know what you are doing. That's how things get refined.
 
A game with three skills can be just as nuanced as one with eight, Gizmo. You are confusing mechanical complexity with mechanical depth here. If every encounter utilized these "Fix, Break, and Talk" skills to their fullest creative potential, you could still easily have players making the same number of tactical decisions as they would with the real Fallout Skilldex. If not more.
It would be a mess, and suffer the same problem with all PCs & NPCs being equally skilled; and in this case, it would mean that fixing a generator, and fixing a broken leg used the same skill check.

The player is supposed to encounter things that their PC cannot handle themselves... because they specialized their character for other tasks. That's why Vic does repair tasks in Fallout 2, if the PC is lacking in the Repair skill; that's why Myron does the Science checks.

How often did you use "traps", anyway...?
Traps are rare in the game—and would likely be too contrived if they weren't. But if you have the skill [developed], then your character can benefit by it in ways that other cannot; the same is true for the Doctor skill.
 
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A little bit of streamlining isn't always a bad thing when you know what you are doing. That's how things get refined.
Which I would argue, most development teams which picked up old franchises they didn't create simply don't, or well maybe they even do know just to well what they are doing, knowing their 'fanbases' ...
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Anyway, we sure don't have a problem these days with too many games which are too complex, too deep or sophisticated.
 
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It would be a mess, and suffer the same problem with all PCs & NPCs being equally skilled; and in this case, it would mean that fixing a generator, and fixing a broken leg used the same skill check.

You are obviously not thinking outside the box here. Adjust the scaling of skills a bit, and you would pretty much never see any two characters with the same combination of statistics. The difference between someone who could repair a leg and repair a generator could be tenfold.

This is all of course if you were still arbitrarily trying to jam a tri-skill system into a world that wasn't deisgned around it to prove a point. If you were really developing something from the ground up, you wouldn't even want to offer such direct means of interaction. You would have the player fix a machine that would in turn fix somebody's leg. Or you would make them heal a guy capable of repairing something.

I'm not trying to say a four or five skill system would work well in an unmodified Fallout, but it certainly can work in other games. For you to suggest otherwise just tells me you haven't really experimented with WRPGs in a development setting all that much.

Which I would argue, most development teams which picked up old franchises they didn't create simply don't, or well maybe they even do know just to well what they are doing, knowing their 'fanbases' ...
played-call-of-duty.png


Anyway, we sure don't have a problem these days with too many games which are too complex, too deep or sophisticated.

That's mostly in the AAA space though, with maybe the exception of Nintendo. They're not looking to make good games, but profitable ones. You wouldn't expect a Hollywood blockbuster to blow you away with creativity, would you? Passionate independents are generally always the ones pumping out the good shit.
 
Yeah, but independed developers are less likely of continuing old franchises as they would have to buy the licence so that leaves us mostly with AAA studios, which gives us results like Fallout 3. But even then actually understanding the game and it's concept well enough to make meaningfull streamlining and refining is a difficult procedure, or so would be my guess.
 
Not sure of the source, pressed for time. All robot NPC's likely as we thought.

After this week's official reveal of Fallout 76, fans and even the press have been wondering and speculating on what kind of Fallout game this will be. Is it an MMO? Is there PvP? Will it be online all the time?
Well, we got a chance to chat with Bethesda Senior Vice President of Global Marketing and Communications, Pete Hines to discuss some of these things. Naturally, the conversation focused mostly on what Fallout 76 is and isn't, although we do agree that it's arguably the company’s most ambitious game to date. It’s got an Open Beta happening very soon and is slated for a release this November.
We got a lot of information during the company’s E3 presentation and from the recent No Clip documentary,but the core question still remains for a lot of people: What exactly is Fallout 76?
This Is What It’s Not
“Folks instantly want to look at a game and say, ‘That’s like this,’ because it’s easy to define and wrap your head around,” Hines explained. “Except when the thing that you’re making isn’t like any of those things. You’re painting a bad picture in your own head of what this is.”
When leaks about Fallout 76 first starting pouring into the internet, the word on the digital street was that it wouldn’t be anything like any past Fallout games. People were comparing it to Rust, saying that it was a hardcore survival-focused RPG about building and fighting other players.
The reality of the game is that, yes, elements of those concepts are present, but it’s reductive to try and boil it down to a direct comparison like that.
“I mean, it’s nothing like Fortnite,” Hines said. “It’s not even remotely an MMO. It’s not like this or that. It’s not like Destiny. It’s not like any of those things. It’s not like Rust, other than it’s an online world with people in it. Fallout 76 is a roleplaying game. It is not a PvP, kill everybody, fest.”
From what I’ve seen and been told, the best way to think about it is to imagine a world much larger than Fallout 4and remove all of the named human NPCs from it. Add in more robots, more ghouls, and more irradiated creatures and areas, then throw in a few dozen players to fill the gaps and add to the nuance.
But again, even that is still overly reductive. Until we get the chance to go hands-on, it’s hard to really articulate what the moment-to-moment experience will be like. Bethesda was not allowing hands-on demos at E3.
What About NPCs? Questing? Playing Solo?
“There are still tons of quests,” reassured Hines. “That’s what I do, when I play, I am building my character, questing, and leveling up, and deciding what kind of stuff to be good at and finding things in the world.”
In short, you can totally still play this like a Fallout game. If you liked the base building stuff from Fallout 4, then great, you can indulge in that sort of stuff more since you’re able to build anywhere and move things everywhere. But you don’t have to do that just like you don’t have to fight other characters necessarily.
“Sometimes when I play I build a base and setup shop somewhere but then other times I don’t and I’m nomadic and decide to use workshops and craft stuff as I go,” said Hines. “Then sometimes I don’t group up with other folks or fight people at all and just wave and say hi when we pass. I’m gonna play this like I’m playing by myself to see what that feels like. There are lots of different types of robots in the world that you can interact with and have dialog with and give you quests. There are lots of ways to give a player a quest.”
To be clear though, Fallout 76 isn’t going to be an empty world. If no one is online, you won’t have a lack of things to do.
“It’s more so like when you see a character, like previously in our games when you see a character we identify it for you by saying this one is a vendor or this one is a raider, there is a red thing on your compass, so you know it’s bad guy,” explained Hines. “That’s a Brotherhood of Steel soldier that’s neutral until you shoot them, or something for example. But now, it’s up to the players themselves to decide which way it’s gonna go.”
Dungeons & Dragons & Nuclear Bombs
In that sense, it will ideally foster a lot of emergent player interactions and gameplay. For me personally, some of my favorite gaming moments have happened when playing online. I’ll never forget playing H1Z1 in beta, back before it was a battle royale-focused game, and having to decide whether or not players were friendly or hostile.
Fallout 76 is sounding like that sort of dynamic once again, but in the Fallout universe. In a way, it’s even more of a roleplaying game than past Fallout games.
“I’ve used D&D to describe it before,” said Hines. “When you play D&D no one hands you a script and says, ‘Here’s your dialogue for your Dwarven Warrior.’ No, I’m gonna give you a situation and see how you handle it. Now with Fallout 76, it’s like the game is the DM and everyone inside the game has to decide how they’re going to play.”
It’s still unclear exactly what the story will be beyond needing to rebuild society immediately after the bombs dissipate 20 years later. Fallout games always have such rich and dense worlds full of things to do, so hopefully the scope of this game’s design doesn’t dilute the content.
“It’s definitely a different version of the Fallout vision,” said Hines. “There’s a reason we called it Fallout 76, it’s not a direct continuation of 1, 2, 3, and 4. It doesn't mean that this is all that Fallout will be now. It just means we wanted to try an idea that the team had and really wanted to see what it would be like if every person was a character in the same world.”
Shared World Multiplayer
Speaking of, even though you can play primarily solo, this is a 100 percent always online game by design. You need an internet connection to play at all. In that way, it’s like Rust, Destiny, The Division, and other multiplayer games, but the similarities mostly stop there.
“Other people will show up in your world all the time,” said Hines. “We keep worlds feeling like it has the appropriate number of players. The Elder Scrolls Onlinedoes something similar with how it moves you around behind the scenes to whatever feels appropriate instead of you needing to pick a shard of a server like in some MMOs. No. You’re just gonna get on and play. For example, you could be playing in a world by yourself and you don’t see anyone that you know. Then later you go to login and you see that a friend is playing, and you could just decide to go play with a friend and your character is there, your stuff is there, and everything you’ve done goes with you in the same version of the world.”
Having recently played State of Decay 2, I was immediately reminded of how frustrating that game’s co-op system is at times. Since everyone can play either offline or online, the world you play in only belongs to the host. That means if I joined a friend’s game, I would keep my character and items but not have access to my base or world progression. Fallout 76 has, supposedly, been developed with a way around that common issue in mind.
“All your stuff, including buildings, go with you,” assured Hines. “It’s not like, ‘Oh, that’s on the other server,’ no, that’s all your stuff, so it’s with you. Where your character is, that’s where your stuff is. If two players have structures on the same spot, we have stuff that works through how all that plays out. Don’t think about your stuff and character being separate, no, you’re using old game concepts to think about how this works. You can build things anywhere and you can move it anywhere.”
Building For The Future
It all sounds great and super ambitious, but like with anything that takes a developer outside of their comfort zone, I’m remaining cautiously optimistic. I’m still not sure how they plan to deal with trolls griefing other players and whether or not a bounty system will really be enough. Hopefully the Open Beta can help answer some of those questions.

Saves on voice actors eh? Cheap bastards.
 
The player is supposed to encounter things that their PC cannot handle themselves
Traps are rare in the game—and would likely be too contrived if they weren't. But if you have the skill [developed], then your character can benefit by it in ways that other cannot;
but honey, no one is stating otherwise here. i said that skills in fallout should have been more balanced. of course, reaching exact equality here is impossible and even uncalled for but the differences between how beneficial different skills are are too big. my first choice would be expanding the game so various underpresented skills would have more use but if that's not happening, these skills should be merged with others or get ridded of.

in short:
making all skills valid choices > bethesda merging two skills into one > having two skills unnecessarily
 
Traps are rare in the game—and would likely be too contrived if they weren't. But if you have the skill [developed], then your character can benefit by it in ways that other cannot; the same is true for the Doctor skill.
The 'benefit' would be a difference of 50-40 hp lost at most (plus getting to keep the trap but even then that's still a difference of a few pounds of precious inventory space).

Heck even in Nevada playthroughs where traps are most common I just opt to take the hit and reload at an earlier point if the character dies so IF you go for Iron Man then there's that slight edge of being able to clear John Bishop's safe IF you didn't instead spend more valuable skill points in combat skills and cleared the place first.

The solution would've been simple: More traps + random placement since this is a game where if you meta enough, you know where every trap is. Heck maybe design even just 1 dungeon that only a highly leveled pure subterfuge character can get through.
 
Heck even in Nevada playthroughs where traps are most common I just opt to take the hit and reload at an earlier point if the character dies so IF you go for Iron Man then there's that slight edge of being able to clear John Bishop's safe IF you didn't instead spend more valuable skill points in combat skills and cleared the place first.
Ah... did they really recycle so much? It's a terrible shame. I meant Fallout 2's John Bishop; and his upstairs safe in the casino.

The solution would've been simple: More traps + random placement since this is a game where if you meta enough, you know where every trap is. Heck maybe design even just 1 dungeon that only a highly leveled pure subterfuge character can get through.
That could have been nice. My own preference is that FO3/NV traps had been made transparent until detected by the PC (via stat/skill check); which is as it happens, the way it was in Fallout 1 & 2 AFAIK.

i said that skills in fallout should have been more balanced.
...
in short: making all skills valid choices > bethesda merging two skills into one > having two skills unnecessarily
I understand your point, but would rather the flip-side be done in RPGs, where the PC who elects to take "Radiation Technology", can hold a conversation on it with an NPC; and make use of it where no one else could. It is a problem IMO, not to be able to offer esoteric skill options; it homogenizes the possible PCs. It treats the player like they were a kid with a hammer, expecting to use it on everything; (and that it would be irritating if there were not enough X-ray machines to use the Radiation technology skill on).

They don't have that many locks in the game either, maybe they could merge repair with lock picking; (by no means is that a serious suggestion ;)).

Perhaps they could have implemented primary and elective skills, with mention, and the understanding that the elective skills were less commonly used in the game? Everyone would automatically get the primary skills, and could manually choose the electives.
 
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Hines mentioned Brotherhood of Steel. Great, if true.

Of course! Never mind that the BOS have barely set up in Lost Hills in California, they are already present in West Virginia.
I wonder who I should consider bigger retards, the people at Bethesda who write the Fallout games or the idiot fans who just swallow it all without question or criticism. I think both are probably on an equal level.
 
the PC who elects to take "Radiation Technology", can hold a conversation on it with an NPC; and make use of it where no one else could. It is a problem IMO, not to be able to offer esoteric skill options; it homogenizes the possible PCs
i agree, that would be great. but would be really hard to pull off in a video game.
you kind of have something like that in fallout games, in some conversations, when a certain subject appears, you have a few options to choose - some imply that your character has knowledge of it, others imply that they don't (can't think of an example, but i think you know what i mean). sometimes it's based on stats, sometimes it's not. it's an okay way to spice up your character without having otherwise unnecessary skills.

They don't have that many locks in the game either, maybe they could merge repair with lock picking; (by no means is that a serious suggestion ;)).
there are quite some locks in the game and picking them brings great benefits sometimes (still, i would expand on this skill, too. the more, the better :) )

Perhaps they could have implemented primary and elective skills, with mention, and the understanding that the elective skills were less commonly used in the game? Everyone would automatically get the primary skills, and could manually choose the electives.
that's a good idea and i actually designed it that way in my past project (which got scrapped, sadly)

Hines mentioned Brotherhood of Steel
i knew it was going to happen but i still have no words
by the way, has it been explained how there are so many power armors laying around?
 
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hahaha, take that Bethesda fags :lol: :lol: :lol:

Maybe now you think twice before supporting a company that turns an RPG into a Far Cry mixed with Minecraft.
 
It is a problem IMO, not to be able to offer esoteric skill options; it homogenizes the possible PCs. It treats the player like they were a kid with a hammer, expecting to use it on everything; (and that it would be irritating if there were not enough X-ray machines to use the Radiation technology skill on).

That's why Perks exist in Fallout, Gizmo. For specialization. Attributes and skills need to remain fairly general or else the game would get unsustainably complex in a hurry.

Perhaps they could have implemented primary and elective skills, with mention, and the understanding that the elective skills were less commonly used in the game? Everyone would automatically get the primary skills, and could manually choose the electives.

That's a viable way to solve this issue. What you've basically done here is make player choice interesting again by eliminating any clear advantage. I would personally try to avoid adding complexity to the existing system though, so for that reason I would simply turn those skills into Perks.

Hines mentioned Brotherhood of Steel. Great, if true.

That's interesting, I thought they were just going to milk the Enclave to death in this one.
 
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