Fallout 76 Really Sucks. People Act Shocked.

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Korin said:
Also people seem to forget you get free atoms just for playing the game and completing random challenges.
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You have to be naive to not think that atom gain is balanced around the atom shop. They clearly want you to spend money on the atom shop or else why would they make it an actual thing. And a lot of people that actually play the game are saying these are pay to win, so it's just not people that don't play the game or game journalists.

https://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-76-fans-are-unhappy-that-bethesda-is-adding-pay-to-win-items/ -> for reference

It's really what all these games with microtransactions do, they clearly balance the game around the item shop because they want you to spend more money on the game. And to make matters worse, this was a 60 bucks game at release. Sure, it's pretty cheap NOW, but why is a paid game asking for more money? And don't tell me Bethesda needs more money to keep the servers up, this is the same company that made Skyrim, they have more than enough for server upkeeps.

And really, the atom shop thing and the seemingly pay to win crap is just so minor compared to everything else in this game. Getting angry at its microtransactions when everything else is so much worse is really just not entirely necessary. Not saying people shouldn't call them out for pay to win stuff, just saying it's a small thing in a mountain of crap.
 
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Korin said:
most of the people complaining aren't playing at all :shrug:
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This certainly applies to me. Yet I will probably continue to complain, if for no other reason than that this atoms currency, as you describe it, sounds very much like the model of many free-to-play mobile games. And regardless of how much less manipulative than Farmville it is, it's still the route they have chosen in lieu of making an actual RPG. Which I would find a little bit reprehensible even if they weren't using the license of my favorite RPG of all time to push those mechanics.
 
Crni Vuk said:
What do you like about the game so much anyway? Just curious not attacking you.
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I don't feel attacked, it's a legit question. There are things I like about it and things I don't. The lack of NPCs makes the universe feel pretty hollow but the game world itself is actually pretty interesting. There's a lot of stuff to do and explore, though once you reach the endgame (I have several hundred hours in the game at this point) it gets a bit dry, unless there is some community event going on. Multi-player is hit and miss but I mostly play solo. Nuclear Winter is actually super fun and they did a real good job balancing the pvp mechanics for it (legendary affixes and pvp balance in the main game sucks). Probably the thing I enjoy most about it is the C.A.M.P. system because you can actually build something that exists in the game world. I had a lot of fun building this and a bunch of other camps. I don't think the full potential of the C.A.M.P system has been realized yet.

All that being said if people didn't like games like Skyrim/Fallout 4 there's probably no way they'd like Fallout 76. I enjoy those types of games and can accept them for what they are. Probably something underappreciated about Fallout 76 is they actually did put a lot of effort into the backstory and lore of the game but the lack of NPCs ruined its delivery. There's too many holotapes, notes, computer entries, etc. NPCs would have broken up the monotony.

Norzan said:
You have to be naive to not think that atom gain is balanced around the atom shop.
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:confused:

Norzan said:
They clearly want you to spend money on the atom shop but they also make the option of gaining atoms through gameplay a thing to trick people into thinking they really don't need to spend money in the game.
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It's... not a trick? You don't need to buy any of these things? You can save your atoms and still buy nice things. You can not buy anything at all. You can't buy out the whole shop for free. I have spent $10 and I've been playing since Beta. It was only recently I actually spent anything because they had a deal on atoms that came with several cosmetics bundled. You sound like you don't actually play the game.

Norzan said:
And a lot of people that actually play the game are saying these are pay to win, so it's just not people that don't play the game or game journalists.

https://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-76-fans-are-unhappy-that-bethesda-is-adding-pay-to-win-items/ -> for reference
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Yeah, "a lot" of people, to be clear, is a vocal minority of the sub-reddit, which is basically the source used for most of these articles. These aren't hot takes about the Atom Shop and I myself have shared legit grievances about the pricing which were used as the source material for several articles about Fallout 76. So if you're sharing articles about people complaining know that several of them are literally based on things that I said. This was a frequent occurrence in Fallout 76 news where pretty much whatever the most controversial trending topic of the day was would become an article on Kotaku or some other place. A thousand upvotes on a Reddit post is not a majority or even size-able minority the community. Game journalists and Youtubers signal boost these and manufacture outrage on a large scale that mostly involves people who don't even play the game. It's disingenuous at best. Youtubers are the worst of the worst because they will shit out literally anything for views and outrage is easier to sell than thoughtfulness.

Jabberwok said:
This certainly applies to me. Yet I will probably continue to complain, if for no other reason than that this atoms currency, as you describe it, sounds very much like the model of many free-to-play mobile games. And regardless of how much less manipulative than Farmville it is, it's still the route they have chosen in lieu of making an actual RPG. Which I would find a little bit reprehensible even if they weren't using the license of my favorite RPG of all time to push those mechanics.
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Listen, if you don't like Atoms, you're really going to hate finding out about gift cards. Not liking the game because Bethesda took a turn from the original Fallouts is legit though. I feel you. I liked the original Fallouts and I liked the later ones but I also consider them two completely different things.
 
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Korin said:
Also people seem to forget you get free atoms just for playing the game and completing random challenges. I had something like 3000 atoms banked recently from casual play which is about $30 USD. Most items cost in the 100-500 range and that's before they go on sale (which all items do). A lot of that shit can be bought without spending anything at all. Every event and DLC addition to the game is also free. Wild Appalachia was free. Nuclear Winter was free. Wastelanders will be free. If people don't like it they should stop playing it but most of the people complaining aren't playing at all :shrug:
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It the standard fish and whale model. The fish like you spend hundreds of hours to get premium currency(yeah you are doing other things beside currency grinding but like whatever) which give an hour value to the premium currency. So the whales aren't buying atoms or whatever, they are buying time.
 
Kilus said:
It the standard fish and whale model. The fish like you spend hundreds of hours to get premium currency(yeah you are doing other things beside currency grinding but like whatever) which give an hour value to the premium currency. So the whales aren't buying atoms or whatever, they are buying time.
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You are mistaking that mine or anyone's play time is centered around grinding atoms... it isn't. Buying atoms doesn't save you any time. It just buys you atoms. I know what you're trying to say because I've played "free" P2W games (Lineage 2: Revolution being the most recent) and money does buy you time in those games. You are right.
 
Korin said:
Bla bla bla I love Fallout 76 like the abbused girl that can't leave her lover that continues to hit her hard bla bla bla because I believe he will change for me bla bla bla ...
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You know, thinking that one of the guys that made the Death Claw maze is our admin makes me somewhat proud. Not because of F76. But because I can always say, see you fucks? We are not unreasonable and we don't hate everyone who plays Bethesda games. Our admin made the Death Claw Maze.

Anyway, thx for clearing things up. I think I understand it now. I had those kind of games in the past as well ... recently with The Surge. hated that fucking game so much it made my blood boil. But I loved the art/design direction soooo much :/.
 
Crni Vuk said:
You know, thinking that one of the guys that made the Death Claw maze is our admin makes me somewhat proud. Not because of F76. But because I can always say, see you fucks? We are not unreasonable and we don't hate everyone who plays Bethesda games. Our admin made the Death Claw Maze.

Anyway, thx for clearing things up. I think I understand it now. I had those kind of games in the past as well ... recently with The Surge. hated that fucking game so much it made my blood boil. But I loved the art/design direction soooo much :/.
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Yeah, I feel you. Anyway, I'm not here to tell anyone to like Fallout 76 or that Fallout 76 isn't bad for any number of reasons. People talk a lot of nonsense about the game that just isn't true. Most of the time it's from people that either know little about it or don't even play it. Like go ahead and hate the game but hate it because you actually tried it to hate it and not because some journalist or youtuber said it sucks.
 
I hate it because it's trash. The Johnny-come-lately trend on Youtube is about a decade too late.
 
I don't need to eat shit to know it's shit, the smell is enough. I have seen several reviews that go into great detail on why the game is bad with evidence. I don't need to play it myself because i would get to the same conclusion anyway, the game is just poorly designed.
 
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Korin said:
I wouldn't call them cosmetic but they're not really "pay2win" either.
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Yes, I never said they were pay to win. ;-)

And while they aren't pay to win, they do free the player from less grinding, allowing the player to actually "play" the game a bit more than do ingame "chores".

But the thing is not about this, it's about how Pete Hines said in every interview about Fallout 76 he had before the game was released (and even on his Twitter in answer to direct questions about microtransactions), that they are the good guys and would only sell cosmetics. He repeated that like a broken record over and over, but less than one year in and there are already quite a few non-cosmetics. And I don't see this stopping now, they will just keep making more and more. :shrug:
There are some fans of the game complaining about the lies, but that doesn't seem to have any effect and I doubt it will change anything.

Another lie was that Fallout 76 would not have any Humans NPC, Todd was proud of that feature, because they wanted people to know that anyone they would see was a real human. Now they are making (? I don't even know if this is true, but I heard something about it) a NPC expansion. Although this one was probably needed to make the game "richer" and less empty. :nod:
Many players asked for this for a long time.

I have no problem with Fallout 76 or players who enjoy the game, but I never like how companies outright lie about stuff and always get away with it, and some people even defend the lies, giving companies more reason to not stop. In my mind, if you promise or advertise something as being "like this" and then you lied, you should be held accountable in some way.
It's no wonder companies these days (specially gaming companies) say whatever they want and people accept it even when they were lied to.
 
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Risewild said:
Yes, I never said they were pay to win. ;-)

And while they aren't pay to win, they do free the player from less grinding, allowing the player to actually "play" the game a bit more than do ingame "chores".

But the thing is not about this, it's about how Pete Hines said in every interview about Fallout 76 he had before the game was released (and even on his Twitter in answer to direct questions about microtransactions), that they are the good guys and would only sell cosmetics. He repeated that like a broken record over and over, but less than one year in and there are already quite a few non-cosmetics. And I don't see this stopping now, they will just keep making more and more. :shrug:
There are some fans of the game complaining about the lies, but that doesn't seem to have any effect and I doubt it will change anything.

Another lie was that Fallout 76 would not have any Humans NPC, Todd was proud of that feature, because they wanted people to know that anyone they would see was a real human. Now they are making (? I don't even know if this is true, but I heard something about it) a NPC expansion. Although this one was probably needed to make the game "richer" and less empty. :nod:
Many players asked for this for a long time.

I have no problem with Fallout 76 or players who enjoy the game, but I never like how companies outright lie about stuff and always get away with it, and some people even defend the lies, giving companies more reason to not stop. In my mind, if you promise or advertise something as being "like this" and get sales from it and then you lied, you should be held accountable in some way.
It's no wonder companies these days (specially gaming companies) say whatever they want and people accept it even when they were lied to.
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I have no problem with a company changing feature sets IF they are doing it to make the game better. That sounds like the case with an NPC expansion (unless they are charging money for it, which would be crappy because it seems like something that should've been in the game to begin with). The 'cosmetics only' thing is more heinous because it's about profit margins, not changing a design for a better end product.
 
It's pretty much like Korin said. It doesn't mean the game is worth a shit though.
 
TorontRayne said:
Actually they appear to be working on the issues at hand....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexka...efinitely-use-more-events-like-meat-week/amp/

https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/fallout-76-public-test-server-2020/
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Pretty much since the dumpster fire that was release they've been really active in taking in feedback as well as fixing bugs, QoL issues and continuing to add new things. If you compare today's game to last November it's like night and day. The philosophy seems to be that Fallout 76 is a long term project and what it is and what it will be is still very malleable.

Something people should also understand is that "Bethesda" is not a singular entity and a different studio has taken over a lot of the heavy lifting for the game. They are actually doing an awesome job with what they were given.

TorontRayne said:
They are literally performing black magic to get this shit to work online.
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I can actually confirm this, most of the problems in Fallout 76 are a combination of the engine/build kits and trying to make it work as an online multiplayer. Fixing bugs is like trying to slay a hydra.
 
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