Father of all bombs

[Sorrow]

but if you go to live in a foreign country you learn its language, so I dont understand whats the big deal is that our citizenship exams are in fact in estonian Very Happy

And I don't understand what's the problem with giving people that lived there for their whole lives citizenship.

How the fuck can one be a citizen of a country without knowing it's language?

 

[GreyViper]

And I don't understand what's the problem with giving people that lived there for their whole lives citizenship.

Thats the point people who have lived allredy have it, its the imigrants who have arrived lately that demand it, but they refuse to learn the national language, go figure. :/

How many indigenous nations live in russia and how many official languages does Russia have?

Russia as a whole, 1. Because it would be stupid for people from Kaliningrad to learn bashkir or tater. While separate states, like Tatarstan, have 2, because there are 2 large ethnic groups.
What's your point?[/quote]
Id say its more then that, heres a linkie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_in_Russia

 

[meson]

Do you have any idea how hilarious the term "cyber attack" is?

sry, my english isnt exactly brilliant, which I am sure you have noticed, but what is the correct term then for virtually making biggest sites in Estonia unaccesible?

Oh, I dunno, how about "measured response"? How about trying to understand the motives of the country before writing it off as USSR imperialism? How about not propagandising against a country which is simply doing what most countries would? Instead of going all R.E. Pipes on their ass and concluding beforehand that they are the great evil of the 21st century before collecting a stack of propaganda and conspiracy theories against them, think of simple questions...who has what to win? Where's the money? What's going to happen?

Or have fun hopping around about how unfair Russia is being. Whichever.

so, if some countries internal politics anger you, it is completely justified to "attack" it. Lets say US doesnt like the fact that gay marriages are allowed in Holland and starts to DDOS-ing Dutch servers, this is completely OK with you?

and what stack of propaganda and conspiracy theories are you talking about?[/quote]

 

[Brother None]

Duh YES!!!!!!! Tshetsens

I said "in response to NATO expansion."

You mean these guys whos past time activity was doing genocide and ethnic cleansing or taking hostage civilians and executing them rather gruesome way and then send it to TV, yes my heart bleeds for them.

We were talking about NATO as a military offense organisation, which Yugoslavia shows it to be. The morality doesn't factor into that.

You do know that most of us have and visit russia quite often one reason or other mostly business.

Yes, don't we all.

SO let me get this straight they would be offended if somebody would take away their right to nuke other countries?

Missile shields don't work exclusively for nukes. Honest question: how do you imagine the US would react if China built missile defence systems in Canada and Mexico, hmmm?

It might sound funny but I assure you its not. You as admin should know how bad malicious hacking can be.

Oh teh noez! They took away our internetz!

so russians are what you call active immigrants.

Whoo dicky, actually, by that definition, Israelis would be active immigrants. It don't work like that, chuckles.

And this racism thing, what the hell are you blabbering about?

I dunno, how is the Russian schooling system lately?

But I forgot, everything they do is evil and everything you do is righteous, no? When they close down schools, it'd be a crime, when you do, it's justified. Yes.

How many indigenous nations live in russia and how many official languages does Russia have?

Let us check the world factbook!

Ethnic groups:
Russian 79.8%, Tatar 3.8%, Ukrainian 2%, Bashkir 1.2%, Chuvash 1.1%, other or unspecified 12.1% (2002 census)
Religions:
Russian Orthodox 15-20%, Muslim 10-15%, other Christian 2% (2006 est.)
note: estimates are of practicing worshipers
Languages:
Russian, many minority languages

How the fuck can one be a citizen of a country without knowing it's language?

Please stop posting drunk, Sorrow.

so, if some countries internal politics anger you, it is completely justified to "attack" it. Lets say US doesnt like the fact that gay marriages are allowed in Holland and starts to DDOS-ing Dutch servers, this is completely OK with you?

I'm sorry, who's attacking who? I'm still laughing too much about "cyber attacks" to take it seriously, you're going to have to give me a moment before I can take your righteous indignation at face value.

The US has an active plan of attack in case any US citizens ever end up in the International Court in the Netherlands. Wrong example, there.

and what stack of propaganda and conspiracy theories are you talking about?

I've seen a source of nothing but propaganda, accusation, conspiracy theories and allegations lately. So far, none of these have been backed up or substantiated in any way other than "it happens?"

Where I see this happening?
meson
Hideous Freak of Nature
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 10

10 posts of pure irrational vituperance!

 

[GreyViper]

Be uncivilized. Kick them all out, put them all in camps or negatively discriminate against their right to be a Russian, which is no fault of theirs. That's what you're doing.

What camps, what discrimination have you ever visited our country? I sugest you take a look with your own eyes, see how things realy are, then decide. Right now your flinging us propaganda stories. As for right to be right to be a russian means being citizen of russia. Since when you become a citizen on Estonia you become an estonian, so it should be discriminate against their right to be a Estonian.

Good show. Go go racist Balts!

Are you sure your okay, you just labeled a lot of countries as racists!
I assure you we dont have anything about blacks, asians or caucasians, what cant be said about our neighbor.


EDIT: Brother None your taking this way to personaly, relax its politics.

 

[Brother None]

Heh. You might want to pick up an English grammar book before replying again, Mr Viper, I think you completely missed the point of my "be uncivilized" remark.

It's funny that you're repeating the nationalist-racist tendencies right before denying any ties to racism. You do realise "Estonia for the Estonians!" is basically just neo-nationalism, right?

Also, reread the English grammar book you just picked up, because "go go racist Balts" means "go go you Balts that are racists" and not "all Balts are racists."

Believe me, just because you two clowns are disgracing your countries here doesn't mean I'll count you off per definition. Every country has to have a few of your types. I just hope for the sake of your country there's not too many.

 

[Tagaziel]

As for right to be right to be a russian means being citizen of russia. Since when you become a citizen on Estonia you become an estonian, so it should be discriminate against their right to be a Estonian.

Are you from the newest batch of Stupid People (TM)? Tell me, how are the new moronchips perfroming?

Citizenship is totally separate from nationality. And that is a fact. You become Estonian only when you were born in Estonia and through no other means.

However, you can get estonian citizenship under specific terms I believe are enumerated in your Constitution.

tl;dr version:

Estonian =/= Estonian citizenship

I assure you we dont have anything about blacks, asians or caucasians, what cant be said about our neighbor.

"We are always tolerant and never prejudiced, except towards Russians and russian citizens."

See the self contradiction?

 

[Sorrow]

What not giving citizenship to people who refuse to learn the national language of country they live in has to do with racism?

 

[Neamos]

Id say its more then that, heres a linkie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_in_Russia

Um, kay? I don't get the point in linking that.

How the fuck can one be a citizen of a country without knowing it's language?

I dunno. Maybe if they lived in that territory for all their life? Okay, I'll give you a example you can understand. When Poland took Vilnius, a lot of people came to live here. When the USSR gave back Vilnius to Lithuania, all Polish citizens were given citizenship. Is it okay if they wouldn't have been, just because they don't talk Russian/Lithuanian?

Thats the point people who have lived allredy have it, its the imigrants who have arrived lately that demand it, but they refuse to learn the national language, go figure. :/

What, really? It isn't the people that didn't get citizenship after 1991 that are demanding it?

Are you sure your okay, you just labeled a lot of countries as racists!
I assure you we dont have anything about blacks, asians or caucasians, what cant be said about our neighbor.

Are you sure your okay, you just said that no one in Estonia is racist!
And then you changed the subject.

 

[Sorrow]

I dunno. Maybe if they lived in that territory for all their life? Okay, I'll give you a example you can understand. When Poland took Vilnius, a lot of people came to live here. When the USSR gave back Vilnius to Lithuania, all Polish citizens were given citizenship. Is it okay if they wouldn't have been, just because they don't talk Russian/Lithuanian?

If they would be given possibility of learning that language and refused, yes.

 

[meson]

I've seen a source of nothing but propaganda, accusation, conspiracy theories and allegations lately. So far, none of these have been backed up or substantiated in any way other than "it happens?"

I can give you estonian links but what good would they do? And I doubt international media reports our problems. Only about the zomg "cyberwarfare".
http://www.economist.com/world/international/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9228757

 

[Neamos]

If they would be given possibility of learning that language and refused, yes.

I see. Though I don't remember special citizenship courses in Estonia ala Germany, where turks and africans are being tought German for free just so they could integrate.

 

[Tagaziel]

I dunno. Maybe if they lived in that territory for all their life? Okay, I'll give you a example you can understand. When Poland took Vilnius, a lot of people came to live here. When the USSR gave back Vilnius to Lithuania,

Uh, when did we conquer Vilnius exactly?

 

[GreyViper]

Missile shields don't work exclusively for nukes. Honest question: how do you imagine the US would react if China built missile defence systems in Canada and Mexico, hmmm?

Thats precicly my point it would also cripple most tactical missels making 1st strike hard. I don't really see China bothering with that. What would they win, they could gain a lot more from the money they would spend on bribing and building the SHIELD. Besides if Canada and Mexico do decide to build it what would US do, nuke it? Nope probably lots of talks about embargo, counter bribes and if that fails maybe cover ops to sabotage the buildings. Would it lead to conflict, nope.

Citizenship is totally separate from nationality. And that is a fact. You become Estonian only when you were born in Estonia and through no other means.

I guess I failed to explain what I meant. Its hard to discriminate russians since most who say are discriminated are estonians who have been born in estonia and speak russian language take people of Narva for example. Since they went through russian language school they know minimal or 0% estonian, that become problem when you try to get high grade job or go to politics since both require that you understand and know your national language. the problem begins with that that some were granted citizenship at start of 91s. But since the others are latecomers, they are expected to know atleast something of the nation they are going to live in. At that they point out, but why should we the others got for free and we want it same way. This is the crude description.

PS: Anyway before I gracefully retire from this debate, id like to thank all for hearing both sides out. What conclusions you make from our post will be your own, should you want more info then its all in the net.

 

[Neamos]

Uh, when did we conquer Vilnius exactly?

I hope you don't mind Wiki

Linky[/url]] However, on October 9 of the same year, the Polish Army under General Lucjan Żeligowski broke the treaty and seized Vilnius after a staged coup. The city and its surroundings were proclaimed a separate state of Central Lithuania (Vidurio Lietuvos Respublika). On February 20, 1922, the whole area was made a part of Poland, with Vilnius as the capital of the Wilno Voivodship (Wilno being the name of Vilnius in Polish).

 

[Tagaziel]

Thanks. Although I disagree that we "conquered" it. After all, nearly for four centuries Lithuania and Poland were bonded together.

Out of curiosity, why do you have ex-USSR in your location tag? Wouldn't the country name be more appropriate rather than a reference to a sinister regime?

 

[meson]

If they would be given possibility of learning that language and refused, yes.

I see. Though I don't remember special citizenship courses in Estonia ala Germany, where turks and africans are being tought German for free just so they could integrate.

courses themselves arent free but those who successfully pass the citizenship exams will be refunded.

 

[Brother None]

I can give you estonian links but what good would they do? And I doubt international media reports our problems.

That's because most of these problems only exist in your head.

Only about the zomg "cyberwarfare".
http://www.economist.com/world/international/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9228757

Yes, a lot of damning evidence against Russia there. Or, well, none.

Thats precicly my point it would also criple most tactical missels making 1st strike hard. I dont realy see China bothering with that. What would they win, they could gain a lot more from the money they would spend on bribing and building the SHIELD. Besides if Canada and Mexico do decide to build it what would US do, nuke it? Nope probably lots of talks about embargo, counter bribes and if that fails maybe cover ops to sabotage the buildings. Would it lead to conflict, nope.

Wait. Did I miss something? How is Russia's reaction to the missile shields building on their frontier, which is a military act against their country by all definition, worse than the hypothetical covert sabotaging ops of the US? If Russia were doing covert sabotaging ops to disable NATO bases in your country, you'd blow a gasket, but if the US did it, it would be reasonable?

You talk as if Russia invaded countries, bombed unfriendly ones or held a knife to someone's throat. I must've missed that, because s far as I know, that didn't happen.

courses themselves arent free but those who successfully pass the citizenship exams will be refunded.

Ah, afterwards? Because, as you know, immigrants tend to have enough money to easily be able to pay for it in the meantime.

 

[Neamos]

Out of curiosity, why do you have ex-USSR in your location tag? Wouldn't the country name be more appropriate rather than a reference to a sinister regime?

Because my address is not a house nor a street, my address is USSR! *cough*songreference*cough*

Because I don't want people to instantly assume I'm Lithuanian, since I'm Polish-Russian.

 

[meson]

That's because most of these problems only exist in your hrad.

ok, I see, no point of arguing with you, all I get in response is personal attacks. last couple of post of yours are pure trolling, which you warned about not doing. But I guess you are the führer of this forum so you are more equal than others.