This would have been had I caught it when it first started. When I caught it, it had turned into something useful.
Feminism and why it's bad.
- Thread starter Beaushizzle
- Start date
I don't understand the emotion being displayed from the men's side in this debate...
Let's just go along with a worst case scenario, and Amazons take over the world, wouldn't men still have the advantage, being... men? If it comes to physical blows, I mean? Even if it came down to machinery of war, men are physically stronger, and can wrestle tank-keys out of female tank-drivers hands
Why this fear and worry?
It's like the fear and worry of immigrants. Trust me, fellow people, the more frightening a minority becomes to a majority, the more in danger the minority is - not the majority!
People behave as if Europe will be sharia-ized *before* a "cleansing" genocide has washed through the continent, where does this illusion of discipline come from?
Everyone calm down.
We are more likely to kill everything that exists, than let women or minorities actually take our stuff away.
We are in fact, likely to start preemptively killing everything that exists, in fear of women or minorities "taking over", judging by our nature and history, so, nothing to worry about, unless you're an immigrant or an outspoken woman for women's rights.
Let's just go along with a worst case scenario, and Amazons take over the world, wouldn't men still have the advantage, being... men? If it comes to physical blows, I mean? Even if it came down to machinery of war, men are physically stronger, and can wrestle tank-keys out of female tank-drivers hands
Why this fear and worry?
It's like the fear and worry of immigrants. Trust me, fellow people, the more frightening a minority becomes to a majority, the more in danger the minority is - not the majority!
People behave as if Europe will be sharia-ized *before* a "cleansing" genocide has washed through the continent, where does this illusion of discipline come from?
Everyone calm down.
We are more likely to kill everything that exists, than let women or minorities actually take our stuff away.
We are in fact, likely to start preemptively killing everything that exists, in fear of women or minorities "taking over", judging by our nature and history, so, nothing to worry about, unless you're an immigrant or an outspoken woman for women's rights.
Heh, read up some stories of female vets of the east-front and come back saying females are worse at war stuff - I know you're probably joking, I am just saying 
.
In particular the stories about female medics on the frontline. The kind of stories that involves a woman crawling inside a burning tank under heavy fire to get out a wounded crewman, while the rest of the crew tried to get into safety. Some of the best snipers have been females. The role of female soldiers in the Soviet army gets (sadly) very often ignored by history. But they contributed a lot to the fighting and they have been a relatively common sight in the Soviet army. Filling crucial roles in almost every branch, as pilots, soldiers, tankers, rear and front troops, you name it.
Elenas War - Russian woman in combat
http://ashbrook.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/2008-Vajskop.pdf
By talking with Sander about articles, research, studies etc.? Sure, there are sometimes comments thrown around which are not always very level -headed in here by a few users, probably even from me, yeah. But com on! Even if you don't agree with Sander, it's really not THAT bad. I sure don't always agree with him, but I still enjoy the discourse.
Sounds like people sometimes are taking it a bit to personal. Can't say there is a flame war going on right now.
.In particular the stories about female medics on the frontline. The kind of stories that involves a woman crawling inside a burning tank under heavy fire to get out a wounded crewman, while the rest of the crew tried to get into safety. Some of the best snipers have been females. The role of female soldiers in the Soviet army gets (sadly) very often ignored by history. But they contributed a lot to the fighting and they have been a relatively common sight in the Soviet army. Filling crucial roles in almost every branch, as pilots, soldiers, tankers, rear and front troops, you name it.
Elenas War - Russian woman in combat
http://ashbrook.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/2008-Vajskop.pdf
we do it to avoid fights and a flame war across a page. Rather not have that.You guys get engaged in those discussions, you kinda sometimes even start them, and when it heats up you kinda chicken out of it.
By talking with Sander about articles, research, studies etc.? Sure, there are sometimes comments thrown around which are not always very level -headed in here by a few users, probably even from me, yeah. But com on! Even if you don't agree with Sander, it's really not THAT bad. I sure don't always agree with him, but I still enjoy the discourse.
Sounds like people sometimes are taking it a bit to personal. Can't say there is a flame war going on right now.
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DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Hey, never chicked out here. More of like agree/disagree.
I pointed out many european countries have access to semi-automatics/guns and a crazy person could do the same, regardless of him being a liscence holder.
I pointed out population, cultural differences, mental health, etc.
The disagreement comes down to whether even one life taken is too many compared to gun ownership. Many of you seem TALK about registration when your arguments are actually in favor of a flat out ban, ESPECIALLY you Dr. Fallout.
Also, we apparently seem to be living in a Tarantino movie or a police state, or essentially:
Its American culture.
You guys: Fuck your american culture, eat a dick.
Agree-disagree.
I pointed out many european countries have access to semi-automatics/guns and a crazy person could do the same, regardless of him being a liscence holder.
I pointed out population, cultural differences, mental health, etc.
The disagreement comes down to whether even one life taken is too many compared to gun ownership. Many of you seem TALK about registration when your arguments are actually in favor of a flat out ban, ESPECIALLY you Dr. Fallout.
Also, we apparently seem to be living in a Tarantino movie or a police state, or essentially:
Its American culture.
You guys: Fuck your american culture, eat a dick.
Agree-disagree.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Hehehe... yeah I'm for a ban, if it was possible.
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Woops, this was meant for the gun thread lol.
No no it's ok, just replace gunz with wiminz
That's exactly my point: In actual science you explicitly define what words you use, what they mean. You use modifiers (the general term of gravity versus the specific form of Newtonian versus General Relativity) to denote what you mean. Jargon is strictly defined and not just random and obscure, and one can't go and redefine the general "gravity" into something vastly more specific. Like racism, or, if you don't like that example, sexism, which has exactly. Somewhere in the background of the past years a new definition for all those *isms emerged and for some reason the social "scientists" just assume that everybody knows about it. It doesn't work that way.
It all boils down to my initial point: Modern feminism's proverbial PR departement is utter shite. The problem is that TO YOU (in the general sense of members of that movement) it's all clear and obvious, that you are obviously right. Because of that you don't think that you need to bother to make your points understandable and stomachable for the general populace, because obviously you must be right. It doesn't work that way. You can't teach people by simply saying that you're right. And I know that you (in the specific sense of YOU, Sander) don't believe in teaching people (although you appear to just LOVE to hear your own voice/read your own words) because you project your own ideological stubborness on everyone else, but the reason your teaching never works is because your teaching (again in the more general sense of the movement) is utter shite.
tl;dr:
I like feminism. I don't like postmodern Internet feminists.
Akratus
Bleep bloop.
Heh, read up some stories of female vets of the east-front and come back saying females are worse at war stuff - I know you're probably joking, I am just saying
In particular the stories about female medics on the frontline. The kind of stories that involves a woman crawling inside a burning tank under heavy fire to get out a wounded crewman, while the rest of the crew tried to get into safety. Some of the best snipers have been females. The role of female soldiers in the Soviet army gets (sadly) very often ignored by history. But they contributed a lot to the fighting and they have been a relatively common sight in the Soviet army. Filling crucial roles in almost every branch, as pilots, soldiers, tankers, rear and front troops, you name it.
Elenas War - Russian woman in combat
http://ashbrook.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/2008-Vajskop.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariya_Oktyabrskaya
Мы можем сделать это!
@Hassknecht: Is the PR department really shit, though? The concept of privilege is a mainstream part of discourse, now. It wasn't a decade ago. The notion that racism and sexism have power elements is similarly mainstream -- you won't catch any mainstream publication talking about "anti-white racism" for instance. From where I'm sitting, that part of modern-day feminism and anti-racism (which are not the same thing) has succeeded pretty wildly in shifting the mainstream definition and thus understanding of power and privilege. Which was the point! Sure there are people who don't get it, but is that really because it hasn't been explained to them properly and they're really confused, or is it more because they just don't like to think about the power aspect of societal hierarchies?
I mean, you may hate the shift in meaning, but you do now understand how modern-day feminism and anti-racism use terms like privilege, racism and sexism, right? The PR hasn't failed with you. You get it.
I mean, you may hate the shift in meaning, but you do now understand how modern-day feminism and anti-racism use terms like privilege, racism and sexism, right? The PR hasn't failed with you. You get it.
The PR has failed me, definitely.
I'd never call myself "feminist" because I don't want to associate myself with such an intellectually rotten community. That's PR fail par excellence.
It's despite the idiotic movement that I went and tried to understand all those horribly written word-salads. I like to play the advocatus diaboli, and I like to understand as much of everything as I possibly can. Not many people do that, and not many people have the nerve to read through those texts for no other reason than intellectual curiosity.
Beaushizzle
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Why is BlackHistory Month a thing, and yet a White History Month would be racist? Why is NAACP allowed to exist, but the NAAWP would be racist?
Because aliens.
And SJWs.
Because aliens.
And SJWs.
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@Hassknecht: You personally hate the movement, but you do get the terms. Heck, you even seem to agree with them. And so do a whole lot of other people. As I said: these definitions are mainstream, now. How is that a failure?
Because power relations and the status quo. The entire school curriculum is White History. All of society is the NAAWP.
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"Whole lot"? No, it's a minority that cares and understands. A loud one, but a minority nonetheless. The filterbubble is coming back to bite you, and considering how that whole culture of being mentally comfortable is trying to fuck with university education (at least in the US) there's not much hope of it getting any better.
The mainstream media doesn't care about the definitions, they are just scared of the inevitable shitstorms and simply don't take any risks.
And yeah, I consider "making parts of society hate you even though they'd technically agree with you if they could understand you" a big failure in terms of public relations.
It's not that they don't want to think or that they can't. It's that you're not capable of making them think because you're a terrible teacher. The movement is way too high up in the Ivory Tower.
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Yes, it's a minority that cares and understands. But that minority is growing, is far larger than it was, and privilege and power are now a mainstream part of discourse where they weren't just a decade ago (even though they had been in academia for half a century -- society is lagging). You write that off as mainstream media being "scared" but that seems like a rationalization, not actual analysis -- media aren't usually scared anyway, and media as a whole is generally a reflection of society and the status quo. Even if media are scared -- doesn't that say something about the ubiquity and power of this discourse? If this was just a few loudly shouting people no one would care. It's not, though.
Now, I'll grant you that all of this is a hell of a lot more applicable to the United States than to Western Europe, but even there we're starting to see a lot of movement as we get more exposure to the American discourse. No better example of that than the Dutch blackface Zwarte Piet being phased out.
Now, I'll grant you that all of this is a hell of a lot more applicable to the United States than to Western Europe, but even there we're starting to see a lot of movement as we get more exposure to the American discourse. No better example of that than the Dutch blackface Zwarte Piet being phased out.
Urrrrrrrrgh the paranoia about political correctness has really gotten to some people. Someone stop Haidt and Chait already.Hassknecht said:
See, that is what it looks like when intelectuals throw poop at each other
Akratus
Bleep bloop.
"Paranoia", yeah. . . sure. . .
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheFIREorg/videos?flow=grid&view=0&sort=p
https://www.thefire.org/
https://www.google.com/search?site=...0..2..0...1.1.64.hp..29.25.3165.0.QsgdTRXD1kQ
Even the president of the united states agrees:
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/09/obama-political-correctness-college-campus
I'd like to know what degree of dismissal you will apply so I know how many more of these posts I need to make.
There are oodles of research, articles, organizations. . . This is extremely easy to find, I should not have to point it out to you. I find your posts to be full of denials of reality.
I'm gonna go over there and whip myself for engaging in a useless political discussion. .
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheFIREorg/videos?flow=grid&view=0&sort=p
https://www.thefire.org/
https://www.google.com/search?site=...0..2..0...1.1.64.hp..29.25.3165.0.QsgdTRXD1kQ
Even the president of the united states agrees:
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/09/obama-political-correctness-college-campus
I'd like to know what degree of dismissal you will apply so I know how many more of these posts I need to make.
There are oodles of research, articles, organizations. . . This is extremely easy to find, I should not have to point it out to you. I find your posts to be full of denials of reality.
I'm gonna go over there and whip myself for engaging in a useless political discussion. .
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You know that families with deaf people do a lot signing for communication.
That is a nice collection of paranoid reactions there, Akratus. A really good example of exactly the kind of paranoia I'm talking about. That is: people freaking out about some symbolic gestures. Books aren't being banned. Research isn't being stymied. Trigger warnings aren't preventing teachers from discussing anything. Students refusing to play Blurred Lines or boycotting American Sniper aren't actually banning the creation of these products, and they're not materially preventing anyone from listening to that song or going to see that movie if they want to. They're making symbolic gestures. To quote Freddie DeBoer:
It has become fashionable to argue that leftist language policing has mingled with the service vision of higher education — where students are the customers and professors their servants — to curtail the free expression of ideas that most see as the natural purpose of higher education. Minor campus incidents, magnified through the powerful lens of the Internet, become the focus of vast, binary arguments, picked apart ‘‘Rashomon’’-style by interested parties.
It is paranoia, plain and simple.
It has become fashionable to argue that leftist language policing has mingled with the service vision of higher education — where students are the customers and professors their servants — to curtail the free expression of ideas that most see as the natural purpose of higher education. Minor campus incidents, magnified through the powerful lens of the Internet, become the focus of vast, binary arguments, picked apart ‘‘Rashomon’’-style by interested parties.
It is paranoia, plain and simple.
It's not about political correctness, it's about changing curricula because some students might be "triggered" or otherwise incapable of handling it. It's about "safe spaces" with videos of kittens, Play-Doh and calming music for grown up people who are incapable of handling critical thoughts. Those people should not be at a university. They just don't belong. Ok, they could just study something harmless like physics, but that would be actually hard...
I don't care about political correctness, as annoying as it sometimes appears to be. But that whole Internet movement is a cesspool of socially stunted people, and coming from me, that's quite an achievement.
Again, the filterbubble is a terrible, terrible thing, and doesn't help anyone, least those people inside.
At best, it leads to people living peacefully right next to the real world until they finally wake up.
At worst, it leads to massive overestimation of one's capabilities, and subsequent HILARIOUS failure in real life.
Ok, to be fair, that's also kind of a best-case.
@Crni Vuk: "Intellectual" is basically an insult these days...
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