First details on Dead Money, New Vegas' first DLC

It occurs to me that progress towards greater civilization typically involves ever increasing amounts of technology; you know, the stuff that made the apocalypse happen in the first place. If I were a first generation wastelander, I'd be pretty wary of technology in general, since it smacks of the decadence that led to the Great War. Successive generations are likely to be more accepting of tech, but it takes time for attitudes to change. It could very conceivably have taken 200 years for the prevailing feelings toward high tech to be accepting again.
 
Anarchosyn said:
I can point to the Greek, Egyptian, Sumerian or Chinese cultures and remark how, after several hundreds of years, little was created in the sense of developing new technologies to exploit their agricultural base. They reached a level of maturity and, though cultural evolution wasn't absent, found a level of sustainable development which worked for eons (I think if you plotted these developments on a graph they'd exhibit a positive slope but the rate of marginal change would be very very small).

....

200 years isn't a very long time, all things considered, and the vault doors didn't start opening immediately after the bombs fell. I must admit to being abit sketchy on my Fallout history in this regard but it seems that only the vault dwellers would be in a position to rebuild society (I'm aware that non-vault dwellers likewise survived but the conditions immediately after the fall seemed so harsh that most cultures devolved into more sustenance communities; eschewing technology and science for survivability).

On the issue of ancient cultures., I don't see the progress having much relevance here because anceint Greece, Sumaria, China, etc... had to develope all the knowledge for themselves. Their best minds were focused on developing knowledge that today is taught in 4th grade math classes. Vault dwellers and members of the Brotherhood or Enclave would likely learn basics of algebra, geometry, trig, etc...just as early as we do. Then wastelanders aren't without any knowledge. There are tons of science books, repair books, mags, etc...about the wastes. Basically the knowledge is there to be read by those who see advantage in doin so. And I'm not talking about people making combat drones or space ships; I'm just thinking developing irrigation, bridges, concrete walls for their bases, vehicular transport, newly made buildings, etc...
I agree society would be more targeted on surviability (esp. with deathclaws and overpowered mutant crickets), but wouldn't many basic techs help in that survival. If insead of fixing up that car in FO2 the same mechanic fixed up a crane or bulldozer, they could have build large fortified earthworks about their settlements. It's not high tech, but much better than chainlink. I realize now that Vegas hasn't been functioning long as is, but with in a decade I'd expect the tech there to replace the junk barrier with some reinforced concrete or earthworks.

Hadanelith said:
It occurs to me that progress towards greater civilization typically involves ever increasing amounts of technology; you know, the stuff that made the apocalypse happen in the first place. If I were a first generation wastelander, I'd be pretty wary of technology in general, since it smacks of the decadence that led to the Great War. Successive generations are likely to be more accepting of tech, but it takes time for attitudes to change. It could very conceivably have taken 200 years for the prevailing feelings toward high tech to be accepting again.

As for Fallout Technophobia...I've not see it in the games. There are tons of people happily using pre-war tech; be it guns, robots, medical tech, robodogs, toilets, etc... I've also never see references to technological holocausts like in Dune. So, I don't see that as an anwser.
 
Note that the junk barrier looks quite strong as it is, besides, some of the defense systems used by Mr. House to counter the nukes are still active, and with an impending war the resources should be given priority to fabricate military hardware, on my opinion. And about the Fallout Technophobia, I completely agree with you, the only barrier to the widespread use of hi tech are the factions that own such items and knowledge, they tend to keep it all to themselves, for example, Vault City, The BoS and such. The only exception that I can remember was The Shi, and even they were somewhat selfish about their stuffs.
 
As for Fallout Technophobia...I've not see it in the games. There are tons of people happily using pre-war tech; be it guns, robots, medical tech, robodogs, toilets, etc... I've also never see references to technological holocausts like in Dune. So, I don't see that as an anwser.

one example can be the Vault Dweller in the end he decide that the best thing to do is to created a comunity without tecnology (Arroyo), ceaser legion can be other example.
the only people that i see using robots are the enclave and the bos.only the king use robotdogs all of them are minority of the people on the wasteland
there is not a lot of science in using guns.
 
well the van graff have a high supply on energy weapons, and some raiders out there are pretty well equiped with energy weapons as well from laser weapons to plasma rifles.
 
Tremer said:
one example can be the Vault Dweller in the end he decide that the best thing to do is to created a comunity without tecnology (Arroyo)

Who said he wanted to create a community without technology?
I think it is more the case that they simply had no access to it.

The Vault Dweller did not exactly leave the Vault with a GECK nor did he have access to a source of technology and equipment as most of it was either destroyed or already claimed by others, or perhaps impossible to transport to where Arroyo was set up.

I am pretty sure the Arroyo tribe would have enjoyed things like generators, electrical lights, what advanced medicine they could collect and so on.
Perhaps even a few computers with data discs to prevent them from becoming superstitious tribals like their descendants did end up to be.

The whole 'noble savage' concept is overrated.
 
Wow. I'm suddenly much more intrigued by this DLC, and I'm starting to look forward to exploring this place. I will still await feedback before I decide whether or not to purchase it, however, but the premise sounds a lot better already. I hope it's expansive enough and filled with wonderful details and mysteries to be solved.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Who said he wanted to create a community without technology? I think it is more the case that they simply had no access to it.

The fact that he founded it in a remote location with no access to advanced technology? If he wanted them to have tech, he would have chosen a more suitable location with plenty of tech to go around.

The Vault Dweller did not exactly leave the Vault with a GECK nor did he have access to a source of technology and equipment as most of it was either destroyed or already claimed by others, or perhaps impossible to transport to where Arroyo was set up.

Who stopped him from finding a tech trove? It was 2162, the world was still putting pieces back together and there were plenty of places he could've chosen to go and settle down with tech.

Besides, the towns of the wasteland owed him - he could've bartered for any kind of technology with any of them and move up north with at least a basic supply of high tech, durable stuff.

I am pretty sure the Arroyo tribe would have enjoyed things like generators, electrical lights, what advanced medicine they could collect and so on.
Perhaps even a few computers with data discs to prevent them from becoming superstitious tribals like their descendants did end up to be.

Even though Chris Avellone specifically stated that the Vault Dweller may have wanted to make a clean break away from technology?

The whole 'noble savage' concept is overrated.

But some people do like it and may choose to use it as template for a new community (aka the Vault Dweller).
 
Isn't one of Fallout's inspirations A Canticle For Leibowitz? In that book it took something like 6 centuries before mankind really started to rebuild. (or not, I haven't finished reading it yet, but they did totally build an arc generator)
 
WorstUsernameEver said:
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
smber2cnma said:
People in the Fallout universe have access to tech and knowledge far surpassing 1770's colonialists - heck most of them have have technology surpassing 1970s Americans. Neon lights, servant/defense robots, advanced medicine, energy weapons, robo dogs, Vaults, and GECKS, etc...

They don't have horses, though.

Actually, there's this panel in All Roads...
When I saw it I was like:

:shock:

then I looked at it again and was like:

:facepalm:

And now I don't know what to think :(
 
brahmins are bette then horses anyway because they have 2 heads (look ma!) and they also give milk.
 
Crni Vuk said:
brahmins are bette then horses anyway because they have 2 heads (look ma!) and they also give milk.

[Ausirmode]Actually, the plural form is called Brahmin, or Brahma.[/Ausirmode]

:smug:


Anyway, I never liked the idea of horses in Fallout - it would be too "normal" in some way. Dunno why, I always thought horses are extinct in the fallout world.
 
Even though Chris Avellone specifically stated that the Vault Dweller may have wanted to make a clean break away from technology?

He did?

Meh, I find the whole 'lets do away with technology and science' always akin to 'lets invite ignorance and superstition again, thinking the sun is magical, and earthquakes are caused by invisible giants'.

The fact that he founded it in a remote location with no access to advanced technology? If he wanted them to have tech, he would have chosen a more suitable location with plenty of tech to go around.

I had the feel that California was way more anarchistic at the time, and having good stuff like working generators or medicine would draw the attention of raiders and larger organizations who desire it.

Besides, the towns of the wasteland owed him - he could've bartered for any kind of technology with any of them and move up north with at least a basic supply of high tech, durable stuff.

Outside the BOS, and the Followers, and the surviving Super Mutants/Children of the Cathedral no one knew that the Vault Dweller had destroyed the vats and stopped the Master.

Going to a trader and telling him or her that you defeated this big bad that would have either turned you into a mutant or sterilized you and now expecting to get a reward in the form of supplies or other items would probably have more resulted in ridicule than people taking the VD's word for it.

It seems that only over the years the truth started to become more common as the Super Mutant and Children remnants started to spread out.

Surf Solar said:
Anyway, I never liked the idea of horses in Fallout - it would be too "normal" in some way. Dunno why, I always thought horses are extinct in the fallout world.

Plus would you really want PA horse armor?
Bethesda would do it you know.
 
I'm wondering what the obligatory loot will be at the end of this. Hopefully not something too silly. We already have Grenade Machineguns and Mini-Nuke Launchers. :?
 
The Dutch Ghost said:

Check Fallout Bible 5.

Meh, I find the whole 'lets do away with technology and science' always akin to 'lets invite ignorance and superstition again, thinking the sun is magical, and earthquakes are caused by invisible giants'.

That's a very... simplified way of seeing things. Shunning technology does not equal becoming savages. In fact, what's wrong with low tech pagan societies? How does knowing how the sun works make me happier?

I had the feel that California was way more anarchistic at the time, and having good stuff like working generators or medicine would draw the attention of raiders and larger organizations who desire it.

It always does, so that's not a valid argument. The Vault Dweller would have to take appropriate precautions no matter what site he chose, so it's not a deciding factor. He simply chose not to settle down near a technology-rich area.

Besides, the towns of the wasteland owed him - he could've bartered for any kind of technology with any of them and move up north with at least a basic supply of high tech, durable stuff.

Outside the BOS, and the Followers, and the surviving Super Mutants/Children of the Cathedral no one knew that the Vault Dweller had destroyed the vats and stopped the Master.

Yeah, and that monument outside the Congress Hall in Shady Sands is totally not dedicated to the Vault Dweller that inspired the NCR. Totally.

People knew what happened. The Followers would see to that.

Going to a trader and telling him or her that you defeated this big bad that would have either turned you into a mutant or sterilized you and now expecting to get a reward in the form of supplies or other items would probably have more resulted in ridicule than people taking the VD's word for it.

Nobody ever does that. The Dweller would leverage his earlier explots that helped this particular trader. Plus, the legendary Brotherhood armour also calls for respect and invites trust.

Really, is that the best counter argument you can offer DG? Come on, you can do better than that. ;)

It seems that only over the years the truth started to become more common as the Super Mutant and Children remnants started to spread out.

Uh, everyone knew the Children of the Cathedral and everyone suspected they were up to *something*. The Followers would ensure that everyone knows what they were up to and who defeated them.
 
Yeah, and that monument outside the Congress Hall in Shady Sands is totally not dedicated to the Vault Dweller that inspired the NCR. Totally.

I always thought they made this statue because the VC rescued Tandi and helped Shady Sands, not for destroying the Vats and killing the master.
 
Tagaziel said:
The Dutch Ghost said:
That's a very... simplified way of seeing things. Shunning technology does not equal becoming savages. In fact, what's wrong with low tech pagan societies? How does knowing how the sun works make me happier?
The only down side is if someone else DOES remeber how to say, how to use guns and or energy weapons and desides to bully you in to say becoming there serfs/slaves.
 
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