First Impression of Fallout 4

In any case the Reinforced Combat Armor MKII is much better stats wise and there is factionless Power Armor.

Plus, "armor" is more or less completely optional in New Vegas anyway. On Very Hardcore, I find myself wearing Ulysses Duster (DT 13) for the endgame a lot of the time, since depending on how you play you honestly aren't going to get shot that much. So unless you decide to be Johnny Shoot-At-Me, armor is mostly for the faction mechanic, stat bonuses, and roleplaying.
 
I have taken to play character that only wear light armor for a long time now. I even have a mod that adds very cool loking clothes who at the most have 5 dt.
 
Battlecross, would you be surprised if you the Allies shot you if you were wearing a German uniform and were armed to the teeth in France 1944? Because that's the simplest analogy. You're in a middle of a war and wearing the enemy's uniform is the dumbest thing you could do. And I'm sorry, but in real life and good RPGs doing dumb stuff is supposed to have consequences.

Not remotely comparable to a video game with choice in a post-apocalyptic world where salvaging is essential. Not to mention how as said, you could get the same armors that wouldn't cause issues in the DLCs.

But is salvaging such an important job to the player? What would he honestly do with the armors other than just sell them? Are you seriously suggesting for the game to let you do EVERYTHING, that is honestly COMPLETELY insignificant to the gameplay? It's not going to hurt the narrative, why have such an arbitrary thing, potentially in the way of gameplay?

Well, wear them is salvaging them dude. I'm having a hard time understanding your post otherwise.

Guess I misunderstood what you meant by "salvaging". Care to elaborate?

To use stuff found around the world for whatever reason, whether it be to wear/shoot/sell/whatever.

b : something extracted (as from rubbish) as valuable or useful

So I don't know how it ties into faction armor but okay.

Fuck. This has honestly turned into the most pointless discussion I've had.

Edit: Okay so yeah I get what you're saying but it isn't the player's job to actively salvage shit rather than sell them as is. Let other people deal with it.

I really have no idea what you're saying. Salvaging stuff is a big part of 3 and NV.
 
And consequences for actions is a big part of New Vegas. If you want to wear NCR ranger or Patrol Armor just don't wear it near Legion encamptments or the Great Khans Settlement. A salvager who wears enemy colors in the middle of a war is basically asking to be shot. You wouldn't wear Rabbi clothes in the middle of Nazi territories just because you found them, now would you?
 
And consequences for actions is a big part of New Vegas. If you want to wear NCR ranger or Patrol Armor just don't wear it near Legion encamptments or the Great Khans Settlement. A salvager who wears enemy colors in the middle of a war is basically asking to be shot. You wouldn't wear Rabbi clothes in the middle of Nazi territories just because you found them, now would you?

And the fact that simply wearing a piece of armor = you must be part of that group is the part that is lacking in the game to me. First time through players won't know exactly where encampments are, etc. Hell you could be a Legion supporter who killed a Ranger and took his armor for protection, but you'll blindly be seen as an enemy. It's just something that could've been done better, that's all. WW2 reference doesn't work as I already said. There just should've been some nuance in it, plus it falls apart when you have the non-faction specific armor that looks the same in the DLCs.
 
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Go wear an Isis uniform in front of an american military outpost, see if they care to ask questions before shooting you.


Players who wear Faction armor get a HUGE prompt telling them "You are now dressed as a member of the NCR" and constant pop up reminders telling them that they are wearing faction clothes. If they ignore those it's their fault.
Also if they don't know where the encampments are they are constantly told from the beginning that the NCR and Legion will shoot at each other on sight, so if they want to still wear the armor despite not knowing the region is on them to take the risk. Actions have consequences, it's not the fault of the game if the player ignores the very clear prompts and acts irrationaly after being told the mechanics fo the world and game, that's the fault of the player. Just like those people who ignore the 2 Faction ultimatum warnings and the 3 Prompts to save before they start the Battle of Hoover Dam.
 
Go wear an Isis uniform in front of an american military outpost, see if they care to ask questions before shooting you.

Again, video game. You're trying to compare the real world with a game when it isn't comparable and if a US soldier just shot a guy walking around for being dressed a certain way there would be issues.

Players who wear Faction armor get a HUGE prompt telling them "You are now dressed as a member of the NCR" and constant pop up reminders telling them that they are wearing faction clothes. If they ignore those it's their fault.

Also if they don't know where the encampments are they are constantly told from the beginning that the NCR and Legion will shoot at each other on sight, so if they want to still wear the armor despite not knowing the region is on them to take the risk. Actions have consequences, it's not the fault of the game if the player ignores the very clear prompts and acts irrationaly after being told the mechanics fo the world and game, that's the fault of the player. Just like those people who ignore the 2 Faction ultimatum wranings and the 3 Prompts to save before they start the Battle of Hoover Dam.

Again, it could've been implemented a bit better with some nuance and you're ignoring the very armor you yourself brought up too. This isn't remotely like save warnings at all either. It's a minor issue but an issue nonetheless, you don't have to bend over backwards to defend it.
 
But how? I've thought about what you meant by "salvaging is essential" in Fallout and I have no clue what you mean. It's not essential. You're literally just looting. You get a piece of armor, you can keep it the rest of the game. Just repair it up by paying money. Armors usually have high condition anyways. Same with weapons. It's just looting...

Wow. Tonight has been nothing but confusion.

I mean what were you arguing over anyway? I've lost track. That the game doesn't make it clear that you're wearing enemy faction armor? Because it's pretty fucking clear. If you make a mistake of doing it, you're punished. He made the analogy that you very well will get killed in real life if you're wearing the wrong uniform. That is, when you're in war. Salvaging has nothing to do with it.
 
But how? I've thought about what you meant by "salvaging is essential" in Fallout and I have no clue what you mean. It's not essential. You're literally just looting. You get a piece of armor, you can keep it the rest of the game. Just repair it up by paying money. Armors usually have high condition anyways. Same with weapons. It's just looting...

Wow. Tonight has been nothing but confusion.

I mean what were you arguing over anyway? I've lost track. That the game doesn't make it clear that you're wearing enemy faction armor? Because it's pretty fucking clear. If you make a mistake of doing it, you're punished. He made the analogy that you very well will get killed in real life if you're wearing the wrong uniform. That is, when you're in war. Salvaging has nothing to do with it.

It's been confusion because you're not making much sense, you're agreeing with me but trying to call it looting and claim it's different?

No one said anything about making it clear, the problem is that it's black and white with no nuance in a game that tried to make everything nuanced/diverse.

What the fuck i'm done goodbye

Okay then.
 
Again, video game. You're trying to compare the real world with a game when it isn't comparable and if a US soldier just shot a guy walking around for being dressed a certain way there would be issues.
Video Games, those have mechanics.
Also, if you are so sure an american soldier won't shoot you for wearing an ISIS uniform near their base on hostile territory, go ahead and do it. See how it goes. Tell us about it. Better case scenario they throw you into a cell.

Again, it could've been implemented a bit better with some nuance and you're ignoring the very armor you yourself brought up too. This isn't remotely like save warnings at all either. It's a minor issue but an issue nonetheless, you don't have to bend over backwards to defend it.

They have nuance, you are told very clearly what the faction armor does, you are told through story what the dynamics between the two factions are. You are constantly reminded every 2 minutes that you are "Still Dressed as a Member of the NCR". You have to basically go out of your way and start killing members of a faction to get the armor early game, except for Nipton nothing in the main quest path leads you into a Legion encampment, youactually have to go out of your way to get to those in which case si on you to assume the risk. Same as you deciding to walk into the Quarry Junction and finding Deathclaws. Hell Nipton gives you warning with the Bull Flags at the entrance before you are even within range of the Legionaries perception.

In the case of implementing a "faction coloring system" what would it be then? If it has to be something the Legion can Recognize from afar it will also be something the NCR would see so then Recolored NCR armor would turn into Legion armor. Alterntive you want to remove the faction entirely, the faction armor would then logically turn into a deserter armor, which would basically become an enemy armor as you can see from encounters with NCR deserters who are actively escaping and turnning to raiding because they have no other option, and the Legion take as well to deserters as they take to profligates so.... Alternatively, it would turn into a Raider armor and mark youas as someone who stole an uniform from a dead soldier or killed him to get it, again, Enemy Armor.

Unless all you want is to remove cosnequences entirely, by which point that makes the central mechanics redundant and pointless.

The faction system has some issues I would like to see fixed and expanded upon, but this you are complaining about makes zero sense from an In Universe stand point and from a game design one.

DLC armor are a different matter because those were made to be side content not directly related to the main game. It would make sense for the Desert and Riot armors to be seen as faction armor but then you would complain about paying ten dollars and not being able to wear those on Legion territories... so it's all an endless cycle.....
 
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Again, video game. You're trying to compare the real world with a game when it isn't comparable and if a US soldier just shot a guy walking around for being dressed a certain way there would be issues.
Video Game, those have mechanics.
Also, if yo uare so sure an american soldier won't shoot you for wearing an ISIS uniform near their base on hostile territory, go ahead and do it. See hwo it goes.

:wtf: If this is your argument which is totally absurd...wow.



They have nuance, you are told very clearly what the faction armor does, you are told through story what the dynamics between the two factions are. You are constantly reminded every 2 minutes that you are "Still Dressed as a Member of the NCR". You have to basically go out of your way and start killing members of a faction to get the armor early game, except for Nipton nothing in the main quest path leads you into a Legion encampment, youactually have to go out of your way to get to those in which case si on you to assume the risk. Same as you deciding to walk into the Quarry Junction and finding Deathclaws.

In the case of implementing a "faction coloring system" what would it be then? If it has to be something the Legion can Recognize from afar it will also be something the NCR would see so then Recolored NCR armor would turn into Legion armor. Alterntive you want to remove the faction entirely, the faction armor would then logically turn into a deserter armor, which would basically become an enemy armor as you can see from encounters with NCR deserters who are actively escaping and turnning to raiding because they have no other option, and the Legion take as well to deserters as they take to profligates so....

Unless all you want is to remove cosnequences entirely, by which point that makes the central mechanics redundant and pointless.

The faction system has some issues I would like to see fixed and expanded upon, but this you are complaining about makes zero sense from an In Universe stand point and from a game design one.

What I am saying has merit in a world where a faction is wearing re-painted football armor and wearing nearly identical armor isn't considered an issue. Minor issue, but an issue nonetheless regardless of how you try to justify it. From the Riot Armor page: "Although this armor bears extreme resemblance to NCR Ranger combat armor, and is worn by NCR riot control officers, this armor does not affiliate you with NCR."

This is what I'm saying, is a fact and you can defend all you want but it is inconsistent. You don't have to go overboard defending it, it's not a big deal.

Like usual I'm going to end this here because you'll just keep going because you can never be wrong or your world ends or something. You will respond anyway because you're predictable.
 
Then tell me what do you mean by "totally absurd" when the messag said 2 things 1. Videogames have mechanics so sayign "it's a videogame" doesn't make sense as an argument, and 2. I compared it to a very logical real life situation. Please enlighten us.
 
WAY better. It is no COD but the FPS sensations are amazing
That's scary as hell [that people actually think link that]; 'It is no COD but...', as in it could be even better if it was...
banghead_zps392c87ef.gif

The future of Fallout, right there.

Now at least we know what to expect with the years to come.

Minecraft in Call of Duty.


https://youtu.be/0lWNdcbq3EU?t=166

First people complain that the FPS gameplay in 3 and NV is shit.

Bethesda improves the FPS gameplay and now people complain that it becomes COD because of the better FPS mechanics...

Some people just can't be pleased.

Was Fallout ever meant to be an FPS? That is the core of the complaint. If you don't care to get in to the history of Fallout than well, there is not much to say really.

Thing is, improving on FPS mechanics is a given, why is that seen even as something good? That's the bare minimum you can expect from Fallout 3 to Fallout 4!

For the franchise as whole, it is a step backward, as like I said, the game was never designed to be a First Person Shooter. Making Fallout closer to CoD ... will never be an improvement for it self.

Why dialog wheels is so popular? Only game i've saw that thing actualy add something was Deus Ex. I can understand binding 4 keys to the options making easy to adjust, but why in hell not allow the player see what his character is going to say and in what context?! Why, WHY!?

Apparently people liked it a lot in Mass Effect. Never played that game so can't judge.

In the Witcher it works really well.


So the dialogue wheel can be good if good implemented...

And yet, it will be always behind the traditional way of how dialog was handed in RPGs for decades. You know, the kind where you actually READ and get to CHOSE what you read as answer for your character. How else do you want to support all the nuances of role playing in a game? This kind of approach might be alright for some games, I won't denny that. But it is actually not really good for a game where you should be provided with many differen styles of role playing. In Mass Effect you always play the Shepard saving the Galaxy, in the Witcher you're always playing the Gerald the monster-slayer. How is that dialog-wheel system supposd to work in a game though where you have classes? And I mean like real classes, where the only difference isn't just the range of your spells or the amoung of damage you do. I mean games with alignments, stats that change the dialog. You can not role play different personalities with just so limited options.

But Fallout is a FPS RPG since 3, accept it. And when you accept it you can accept that it is good to improve thos mechanics.

We don't have to accept anything here.

We acknowledge it. Because it is a fact that Bethesda is making such games. But accepting it? There is no reason to.
 
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Personally, I just don't like first person shooters. I do, however, care deeply about Fallout. I just resent the implication that Fallout 4 would be better if it were more like Call of Duty. I understand that "better" is a matter of opinion here (and elsewhere, usually) but "making Fallout more like Call of Duty" is turning Fallout from a thing I love to the thing I hate.

I mean, I certainly wasn't complaining about the FPS gameplay not being good enough in Fo3 or NV, I pretty much used VATS 100% of the time in those games. Any complaints I had were that it was that real-time combat was even an option to begin with.
 
WAY better. It is no COD but the FPS sensations are amazing
That's scary as hell [that people actually think link that]; 'It is no COD but...', as in it could be even better if it was...
banghead_zps392c87ef.gif

The future of Fallout, right there.

Now at least we know what to expect with the years to come.

Minecraft in Call of Duty.


https://youtu.be/0lWNdcbq3EU?t=166

First people complain that the FPS gameplay in 3 and NV is shit.

Bethesda improves the FPS gameplay and now people complain that it becomes COD because of the better FPS mechanics...

Some people just can't be pleased.

Was Fallout ever meant to be an FPS? That is the core of the complaint. If you don't care to get in to the history of Fallout than well, there is not much to say really.

Thing is, improving on FPS mechanics is a given, why is that seen even as something good? That's the bare minimum you can expect from Fallout 3 to Fallout 4!

For the franchise as whole, it is a step backward, as like I said, the game was never designed to be a First Person Shooter. Making Fallout closer to CoD ... will never be an improvement for it self.

I'm sure one of the reasons to do this was to simplify the control scheme for console users since I don't see a gamepad being very useful at all in an isometric game compared to a mouse and keyboard but I could be wrong.
 
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