First Impression of Fallout 4

MercenarySnake said:
I'm sure one of the reasons to do this was to simplify the control scheme for console users since I don't see a gamepad being very useful at all in an isometric game compared to a mouse and keyboard but I could be wrong.
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I think it has more to do with the demographic. Companies like Bethesda know their fanbase and what kind of games they enjoy. The console and the controller is not that heavily restricted that you can't get games to work which are ISO/Top Down. I mean games like Sim City existed already on the SNES and Command&Conquer Red Alert on the PS1. And it worked well enough. Like Furioso said, it depends on how much time you spend to make it feel right. But it should not be more difficult than making a first person game for the console.

However, if you want to reach 30 million gamers ... than you have to simply follow a certain design, mainly the lowest common denominator.

And I think that is the real reason here why we see this constant dumbing down. Bethesda probably feels that they won't sell as many games, which is probably true. But who ever said a game like Fallout would have to sell 30 milion copies to be a good game?
 
Walpknut said:
Go wear an Isis uniform in front of an american military outpost, see if they care to ask questions before shooting you.


Players who wear Faction armor get a HUGE prompt telling them "You are now dressed as a member of the NCR" and constant pop up reminders telling them that they are wearing faction clothes. If they ignore those it's their fault.
Also if they don't know where the encampments are they are constantly told from the beginning that the NCR and Legion will shoot at each other on sight, so if they want to still wear the armor despite not knowing the region is on them to take the risk. Actions have consequences, it's not the fault of the game if the player ignores the very clear prompts and acts irrationaly after being told the mechanics fo the world and game, that's the fault of the player. Just like those people who ignore the 2 Faction ultimatum warnings and the 3 Prompts to save before they start the Battle of Hoover Dam.
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But... Nobody wants roleplaying, choices and consequences in RPG's anymore. They want to be able to join every faction in one playthrough even if it makes no sense what so ever. A member of the Thieves Guild being able to join a warrior faction that puts a large emphasis on honor? Why go on ahead! We don't want anything getting in the way of the power fantasy.
 
Crni Vuk said:
MercenarySnake said:
I'm sure one of the reasons to do this was to simplify the control scheme for console users since I don't see a gamepad being very useful at all in an isometric game compared to a mouse and keyboard but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

I think it has more to do with the demographic. Companies like Bethesda know their fanbase and what kind of games they enjoy. The console and the controller is not that heavily restricted that you can't get games to work which are ISO/Top Down. I mean games like Sim City existed already on the SNES and Command&Conquer Red Alert on the PS1. And it worked well enough. Like Furioso said, it depends on how much time you spend to make it feel right. But it should not be more difficult than making a first person game for the console.

However, if you want to reach 30 million gamers ... than you have to simply follow a certain design, mainly the lowest common denominator.

And I think that is the real reason here why we see this constant dumbing down. Bethesda probably feels that they won't sell as many games, which is probably true. But who ever said a game like Fallout would have to sell 30 milion copies to be a good game?
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Eh it's just me then. I've always sucked trying to use any sort of gamepad on pretty much any game which is why I stick to mouse and keyboard.
 
Thank you Walpknut for translating everything, much appreciated.

TorrontRayne I agree with everything you hit on except the Power Armor, that is actually the one thing I am looking forward to with Fallout 4.

However I am not surprised about the leaked information we have received on the dialogue and quest, not at all. Its a damn shame though, one of the things I liked about Fallout Tactics is the complete Brotherhood of Steel experience. You start from initiate and rank up, in Fallout 4 you will probably become a Paladin after 4 or 5 quest. You may not even get ranks, "join the Brotherhood of Steel" might happen at the end of the quest line with the faction "Oh congratulations by the way your uh in the BoS" just like they did with F3 Broken Steel.

"Oh you literally saved everyone in DC, and single handily destroyed the Enclave, we thank you for that, oh you can be in our club now"

I mean I am not asking for as much depth as Tactics with the factions, I am not naive, their is a lot more to the game then factions.

Morrowind, yes Morrowind, perfect example of what Bethesda CAN do with factions and quest if they want. It felt SO rewarding when I finally, finally got my Telvanni Stronghold built. I mean that was awesome. Partly because the game over all was a little more difficult, you also didn't have a quest marker which made quest longer to complete. Still the faction quest were more involved in Morrowind, seemed more rewarding.
 
To clarify I like how the armor looks and operates but I'm not sure I like leaving it around all the time for no reason. The power packs are supposed to last for a long time.
 
Some of the things I've read conflict. One version of a leak says the power source doesn't run out, another says they do.
 
Morrowind had a realistic progression.

Wouldn't mind a BOS centered game like Tactics, as they are my favourite faction however I think people are tired of them right? A spin off would do.
 
GlowHound said:
Some of the things I've read conflict. One version of a leak says the power source doesn't run out, another says they do.
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Both could be true. There could be specifically scripted "now you put on the power armor and tear stuff up" sequences in which you can take as long as you want and you don't run out of power, because the sequence is designed for the player to be in the power armor for the entire time, but also for just general use of the power armor in normal questing and exploring you need to keep the thing funded with relatively rare power sources.
 
The Spanish modder said he didn't like using the PA often so maybe that's why he didn't need recharge by the point the question was asked.
 
Jedasd said:
Battlecross said:
Walpknut said:
You hear it right here folks, Videogames having mechanics is absurd. No further need to discuss anything here is pointless really.
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Strawman time, wee-ooo, wee-ooo! Here comes the strawman mobile!
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Nice usage of buzzwords there friend.
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Not sure how pointing out what he's doing is a buzzword.

Walpknut said:
Then tell me what do you mean by "totally absurd" when the messag said 2 things 1. Videogames have mechanics so sayign "it's a videogame" doesn't make sense as an argument, and 2. I compared it to a very logical real life situation. Please enlighten us.
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I made it clear that your attempts to compare a video game mechanic to real life is absurd.
 
Walpknut said:
How is absurd? The mechanic is emulating things that happen in real life. Are physics in games absurd too?

Am I taking crazy pills? This guy is just beyond irrational... To put it politely...
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Again, it's not black and white in real life. You don't suddenly put on a uniform and get shot everywhere like you magically think happens. You're the insanely irrational one when you're trying to compare being a Jew in Nazi Germany to wearing faction armor in a fucking game. The fact that you think they can be compared is nuts.
 
Walpknut said:
Not wanna make sander vat this. I will no longer dignify your idiocy with any further responses.
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Because you're being insane and you know it. I know. Tell me again how a fictional video game in a post apocalyptic world is comparable to a real life conflict again.
 
Seriously go and educate your self about what veterans say about their experience in WW2. They see an enemy uniform? Or even something that only vagualy resembles it? They will shoot at it. You might not have a second chance. Beacuse they, will definely shoot you.

Go, grab a book about the battle of Okinawa, Pelelau or Bastogne, Stalingrad, Kursk you name it. Hell, it was so common that field Medics would usually paint their cross green, so just that they could blend more easily in with the jungle, as everyone made it a habbit to shoot for that nice little cross, knowing that they would not only wound/kill the medic but make it more difficult for the other soldiers. Go figure!

A faction/group shooting you on sight because you use the armor of their enemy is not less ridiculous compared to the countless of raiders in Fallout 3 always shooting you on sight. Infact, it makes even more sense, because why would ALL raiders ALWAYS shoot just YOU (or anyone else really) on sight ...
 
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Crni Vuk said:
Seriously go and educate your self about what veterans say about their experience in WW2. They see an enemy uniform? Or even something that only vagualy resembles it? They will shoot at it. You might not have a second chance. Beacuse they, will definely shoot you.

Go, grab a book about the battle of Okinawa, Pelelau or Bastogne, Stalingrad, Kursk you name it.
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I know plenty, and you're out of your element and not talking about even the hypotheticals that were mentioned.

Again. Fucking video game. Not the same. As real life. Things not. Black and White. Capisce?
 
Battlecross said:
Walpknut said:
How is absurd? The mechanic is emulating things that happen in real life. Are physics in games absurd too?

Am I taking crazy pills? This guy is just beyond irrational... To put it politely...
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Again, it's not black and white in real life. You don't suddenly put on a uniform and get shot everywhere like you magically think happens. You're the insanely irrational one when you're trying to compare being a Jew in Nazi Germany to wearing faction armor in a fucking game. The fact that you think they can be compared is nuts.
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Okay, this is all I'm gonna say to you. First, Walpknut said nothing about a Jew in Nazi Germany, he said a guy in Nazi occupied France, I would have gone with Berlin during the final push seeing as they had devolved into a scavenger state by that time but that's besides the point, seeing as wearing an enemy uniform in the wrong area would most likely get you shot on sight. Second, you say he's acting insane but you're being just as friggin' bad, continuously refusing to agree to disagree or maybe think about the points they've made.. That's all I have to say to you, don't expect a response.
 
It's a mechanic that you don't like, we (I) get that clearly. However that doesn't mean that it is a bad mechanic - if that is what you want to say. The developers of New Vegas created this on purpose. It also opens up options in the game! Using the enemy armor as disguise for example. And forcing a choice on the player, as you can not do what ever you want without consequences. One of the strong points of RPGs in general.

Get over it. It is a good mechanic for Vegas, and it makes sense when you consider that there is a reputation system and different factions that are in war with each other, at least with the NCR and the Legion of which both seem to have standardized uniforms.

You want to run around in Legion armor? Fine. But how is it logical that the game world doesn't react to someone wearing the uniform of an army made of FUCKING SLAVERS.
 
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Crni Vuk said:
It's a mechanic that you don't like, we (I) get that clearly. However that doesn't mean that it is a bad mechanic - if that is what you want to say. The developers of New Veagas made this on purpose.

Get over it. It is a good mechanic for Vegas, and it makes sense when you consider that there is a reputation systme and different factions that are in war with each other, at least with the NCR and the Legion of which both seem to have standarized uniforms.

You want to run around in Legion armor? Fine. But how is it nonsensical that the game world doesn't react to someone wearing the uniform of an army made of FUCKING SLAVERS.
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Again (the part that keeps getting ignored) they introduced the same armor that looks nearly 100% identical and it DOESN'T trigger getting shot. So clearly Obsidian saw the need for the change there and they did it. Otherwise the Riot set should have you identified as NCR based on looking the same, but because it's a video game it's not, which is fine.
 
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