Gamespot's Fallout: New Vegas Demo at E3

squeehunter said:
4) That many lights is a bit much but making neon lights shouldn't be impossible for them. The first one was made 100 years ago. Neon is extracted from liquefied oxygen. I'm not sure how you can do that, but I'm sure someone could pull it off since it was done over 100 years ago from now. Neon signs are usually done by hand anyway.
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Yes, neon lights are made by hand, but where are they going to get the materials and tools to make them? Just because something is made by hand, doesn't mean that it's easy, it's quite a laboring process which requires certain materials that I don't think would just be on hand in a post-apocalyptic world.

But, yes, I agree. The strip looks way too clean, seriously, in the pre-apocalyptic world there are freakin' broken light bulbs.
 
verevoof said:
Yes, neon lights are made by hand, but where are they going to get the materials and tools to make them? Just because something is made by hand, doesn't mean that it's easy, it's quite a laboring process which requires certain materials that I don't think would just be on hand in a post-apocalyptic world.
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Wastelanders have proven to be quite resourceful and skillful in various areas so I wouldn't put this past them. Regardless of if they can make the neon signs or not, it doesn't make any sense WHY they would make so many. It's just not worth it.
 
Yeah, they gotta be quite resourceful to waste resources on this.

coz that's the problem here. Not that it's impossible to do such a town in a post-apocalyptic environment, but why in Frith's name anyone would waste the scarce resources on that? You have access to a more-or-less eternal power source following an apocalyptic war fought over energy resources. And you do what with it? Build a bright neon city? That's retarded.
 
People usually do retarded things when it seems like there's nothing better to do.

I may not agree with the scale that they took it in, but I'm not particularly averse to the idea that they would set up neon lights.
 
generalissimofurioso said:
People usually do retarded things when it seems like there's nothing better to do.
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I think Bethesda can sue you now for leaking their design philosophy.
 
Brother None said:
Yeah, they gotta be quite resourceful to waste resources on this.

coz that's the problem here. Not that it's impossible to do such a town in a post-apocalyptic environment, but why in Frith's name anyone would waste the scarce resources on that? You have access to a more-or-less eternal power source following an apocalyptic war fought over energy resources. And you do what with it? Build a bright neon city? That's retarded.
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To be honest with you, it helps take the edge off staring at grey and brown landscapes with a few broken buildings here and there all the time.
 
OakTable said:
Brother None said:
Yeah, they gotta be quite resourceful to waste resources on this.

coz that's the problem here. Not that it's impossible to do such a town in a post-apocalyptic environment, but why in Frith's name anyone would waste the scarce resources on that? You have access to a more-or-less eternal power source following an apocalyptic war fought over energy resources. And you do what with it? Build a bright neon city? That's retarded.
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To be honest with you, it helps take the edge off staring at grey and brown landscapes with a few broken buildings here and there all the time.
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Yeah, fellas, seriously. It's Vegas. Not just in name but that's the whole point of this game. Vegas. It's only natural they (that Mr. House person) would make it all shiny and colorful so as to attract customers and keep it in tune with the whole city "of sin/pleasure/gambling/sensory overload" theme.

Besides, the bombs dropped in two thousand and fucking seventy-seven, and they had, like, flying shit, power armors, cold fusion and plasma weapons. But they can't have easy and cheap ways to set up neon lights?

jeez.
 
They also dropped bombs that supposedly destroyed the world. You know, nuclear apocalypse. Just because they had that technology before the war, doesn't mean that people can just pull it out of their ass now. I'm sure the resources and technology to make such advanced materials were mostly destroyed. Vegas is an entertainment destination, not an industrial one.

Not saying that in such time they didn't recover, but why would they spend all their time and resources building a glitzy casino? Most people are living on the edge, they have much bigger concerns.
 
Yeah, this is the same problem as Reno and we went over that then. We don't know what the surrounding lands look like yet but in Fallout 2 it made no sense. There were a bunch of towns struggling to get by or putting all their efforts into rushing to build a better world like NCR, and then suddenly there was the New Reno lulz, a town whose only source of revenue is gambling and prostitution.

Prostitution I get, but an entire town built on gambling? How? How can that possibly bring about enough revenue in a post-apocalyptic society to fund an entire city? How can a rebuilding world afford to take effort away from turning the arid desert into liveable land with agriculture and well-protected towns to make some lulzy shit casinos and flashing neon lights? It's just nonsense.

Funny thing is I even vaguely remember MCA finally caving and admitting New Reno was kind of setting-inappropriate (but it's still the best RPG-designed town in the Fallout franchise, in my opinion and ironically enough), but apparently he forgot. Or I misremembered. Ausir?
 
Actually, I'm not Ausir, but I think I remember seeing something like that.

Anyway, I hope the presence of Grilled Maize in the inventory screen in one of the demos is alluding to the fact that there are lots of farms around cities.
 
The game has moved away from its original concept of the “struggling wasteland town”. Fallout 2 started it with New Reno, and now it seems not only plausible, but preferable to have these artificial unrealistic locations. Hey I live in a world that was shattered in an atomic holocaust, and guess what; I want to play some card games at the local casino…water, food, safe shelter, protection, fuck that stuff. But now Fallout has to be FUN, it’s become a prerequisite for some humor to be mixed into the setting…the game has lost the serious edge that made it irresistible to play in the first place; it’s become a sad parody. :roll:
 
alec said:
I like the crafting idea, making potions and poisons, 'cause that sounds like Arcanum.
But the Strip, the Strip looks way too clean, it looks in mint condition for feck's sake except for some cracks in the pavement. Do they have an endless supply of light bulbs and repair materials or something? Look at the shrubbery: it's like they have an army of gardeners taking care of the place. It's silly. And the casinos, it doesn't matter that they have the architecture right, it's all too clean, too light, too spacious, too nice. Isn't this a post-apoc world, shouldn't things be looking a bit more gritty, dirty, broken, damaged beyond repair? But no: you see some NCR chicks dancing in a fucking... fountain? What? Why? Isn't water something that is really hard to find in the middle of the desert? Is this somehow different for this monster called Vegas? Having an entertainment industry this big in a fucked up world, it's... it's stewpit.

I think we're gonna see lots of good changes in the game mechanics and that's it.
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So I wager you must've loved the setting of Fallout 3 and its story, a world that's nuked out and has been stuck in such a state for two centuries, hmm?
 
Brother None said:
Funny thing is I even vaguely remember MCA finally caving and admitting New Reno was kind of setting-inappropriate
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Yes, with a pressure on "kind of". That is, he agreed it wasn't really fitting but for different reasons than the ones mentioned by you.

I think if you have the organized structure for towns, cities, caravans, religious cults, water merchants, then you can either have some structure that equates to that or a predator that feeds on those structures (like Decker was in the Hub, and he was many, many years before New Reno). I was going off a one-page design outline for the area that Tim Cain had done, but I agreed with it, and I am sure Tim would still agree with it on principle, if not on execution.

[...]

It's too sexually over the top, too much profanity, and the look and attitude of some of the characters is too modern-day to complement the feel of the Fallout world (the Mordino family, the fedora hats, the porn studio, the tommy guns, shivs). In that respect, I would consider it an immature design
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Source
 
Brother None said:
How can a rebuilding world afford to take effort away from turning the arid desert into liveable land with agriculture and well-protected towns to make some lulzy shit casinos and flashing neon lights? It's just nonsense.
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You're seriously asking why people would pursue gambling and spectacle (especially in the post-apocalypse) over altruistic/humanitarian/practical efforts? Reeeeally?

.Pixote. said:
But now Fallout has to be FUN
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Heaven forbid.
 
terebikun said:
You're seriously asking why people would pursue gambling and spectacle (especially in the post-apocalypse) over altruistic/humanitarian/practical efforts? Reeeeally?
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Nope.

But I am questioning how they can afford to waste the resources to build an entire town out of that principle. I'm not exactly complaining about the one prostitute in Junktown or the loanshark in the Den here, I'm asking: how does it make sense to have an entire town for that? How's there even enough people to warrant that kind of revenue stream?
 
looks like they kinda want to recreate the town in The Stand, would not be surprised to see Randall Flagg appear from nowhere to say "hello" to the player ...
 
Well, NCR is getting big and prosperous enough for them to be able to use a casino town, I guess.
 
Brother None said:
Nope.

But I am questioning how they can afford to waste the resources to build an entire town out of that principle. I'm not exactly complaining about the one prostitute in Junktown or the loanshark in the Den here, I'm asking: how does it make sense to have an entire town for that? How's there even enough people to warrant that kind of revenue stream?
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Well, for New Reno, there was also drugs. Drugs are good way to build an economy.

Anyway, cities run on sin are incredibly popular in reality. The one question is, in a lawless society, does a city based on sin hold any particular draw over the entire world, where you can presumedly usually sin to your dark heart's content?
 
Brother None said:
Yeah, they gotta be quite resourceful to waste resources on this.

coz that's the problem here. Not that it's impossible to do such a town in a post-apocalyptic environment, but why in Frith's name anyone would waste the scarce resources on that? You have access to a more-or-less eternal power source following an apocalyptic war fought over energy resources. And you do what with it? Build a bright neon city? That's retarded.
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It's a show of force. New Vegas is bright and neon-filled because it can afford that.

Same reason for which the Master had the Cathedral built.
 
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