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Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by The Commissar, Mar 30, 2007.
My precise reaction. It does get a bit heavy-handed, but still... damn.
I enjoyed Spec Ops: The Line, the story was okay but the backdrop was amazing, the scenery is what I remember most about that game.
No on all accounts, but that's kind of a typical reaction to it from a LoLer standpoint. LoL dumbed the gameplay down, so when players switch to HoN or DotA, it's overwhelming. Secret Shops and Side Shops have an integral purpose designed for strategic placement of Heroes and your purchases/builds. Couriers and scrolls just allow for infinitely more variation and possibilities than being forced to return to the base, and having free but slow return abilities. Rushing Aghanims is a very, very noob tactics that most players simply don't understand that there's more to their spells than just damage. Levels between 16 and 25 also mark more than just "more stats", because they define a match based on the abilities of the players. If you choose a lineup that gets stronger than your opponents lineup as time goes on and their peters off, then if you can hold off until your side reaches 20+ you're in good shape. Meanwhile if the other side can finish the match early, your plan won't work. Everything has its purpose, which is why I liken the game so much to chess. It's very, very complex, and it emphasizes planning everything you do, and not "wasting your moves".
The game is just more nuanced than LoL, and that's what players who didn't start with DotA don't seem to understand. The interface and gameplay are plenty intuitive (ESPECIALLY when you compare them to the original mod), but they're not transparent, and that was intentional. The strategies and different play styles were meant to be player creations, not instructions that the game should provide. That's why players say that DotA2 has such a steep learning curve; it'll take you a while to learn all the controls, memorize all the Heroes, and memorize all the items, but it'll take you much, much longer to learn the myriad of ways you can APPLY that knowledge.
Ultimately, you gotta approach one game or the other from a "this is NOT the same genre" standpoint, like comparing COD to Quake. You can call both FPS, but that fails to recognize that they're 2 separate sub-genres of a similar type of game. DotA2 is an ARTS (so it's all about the Strategy) and LoL is a MOBA (so it's all about that Battle).
Whatever fits your boat, mate. I actually played the original DOTA back in the days a lot (I was pretty damn good with Beastmaster and Warlock). It's coming from this perspective that I find LoL to be more intuitive and interesting. Mayhaps it's less ''deep'' (as much as a game that virually hasn't changed from Icefrog's original can be), but it's more fun, and for me that's what matters.
You also speak like LoL is a simple affair with no counter picks or anything, which it just... isin't. Try fighting LeBlanc with a skillshot-based champion. Akali without detection. Garen without extensive warding. Yi without shutting down his snowball ASAP. I could go on all day. It's no surprise the game has a thriving competitive scene, complete with free match diffusion (which DOTA doesn't have). If it wasn't deep this would never exist.
Recall is the only aspect I would say they did dumb down (as Secret Shop has been replaced with the all-important red and blue buffs). But I prefer it to couriers so meh.
I got the new DLC for skyrim 2 weeks ago but so far i've been spending all my gameing time on APB.. If i didn't have to spend a fortune this month i would get the new Tomb Raider Dishonored and maybe some other game.
I'll never understand why people play dota-likes. I played LoL for all of five minutes before I began receiving a series of hatemails, and responded with broken english and general confusion which only generated more hate, because I had the fuckmothering gall to try their game.
In Good-Game news, I'm playing Jagged Alliance 2 again.
Alpha protocol, Wizardry1, Ultima4,The Legend of Heroes III , YS1 is installed in my computer.
Lexx was right, Alpha protocol is great game.
Dialog system, minigames, and dialog itself is quit impressive.
Thanks Lexx .
Well, no. The Red and Blue (and don't forget, Black) buffs were LoL's "answer" to Runes, not Secret Shop. HoN and LoL took the same approach to the Secret Shop; there isn't one. There's no alternative, there just plain isn't one. You can get all the good stuff at base. The whole POINT of the Secret Shop was that some of the most potent ingredients for the better recipes could only be found outside of the safety of your base, so picking them up could put you in a vulnerable state. Even if you used a courier instead, it would put that courier at risk of getting sniped, which would inconvenience the entire team, instead of just you. I'll never understand why HoN STARTED with Secret Shops, only to remove them from the game. Then again, I don't understand why HoN did damn near EVERYTHING it did to the already-flawless formula it copied.
And just like our previous conversation, you keep twisting my words. Maybe it's unintentional, but you keep doing it. You're making it sounds like I'm claiming LoL is completely bland and without ANY strategy, but I'm simply stating it has "less", or that what it has is "easier". I'm not claiming it's definitively bad, or lacking in whatsoever, just that its deviation from the original formula had a reason, and I don't like that reason. I can't play LoL because it makes me a bad DotA2 player, nothing more (and the reverse is not true, which I resent LoL for, as well). Not because I can't stand its inferior graphics (I started with the WOEFULLY worse-off DotA1, after all). Not because it doesn't have carbon copies of the original Heroes. They can vary the selection as much as they want, and all that amounts to is changing the strategies available (so you'd basically end up with HoN, again), so it wouldn't feel restrictive to me, at all. But it's the system that causes the entire game to play differently. LoL doesn't play like DotA, because it isn't. At best, if you HAD to compare the two, it would be like playing DotA "in slow motion", but even that fails to convey what the differences are. It's not just that the strategies it offers are "different", it's that they're nothing alike, and their focuses are likewise distinct. DotA2 plays a lot like a true game of chess, and LoL just doesn't. That's not me claiming it's "just like Super Smash Bros." Just that it's more like a game of checkers, by comparison.
It's really no different than being a fan of or participating in any popular and competitive sport. There's pointless trash talking and sporting/mature commentary in all of them. Soccer hooligans are a perfect example. There are composed, respectful fans of Football (Soccer), and there are juvenile, destructive, violent ones. As Purge often said, "It takes thick skin", and that's really all it is. If I gave those whiny little nitwits any attention, it would just serve to validate their trollish existence. Instead, I focus on my own enjoyment of the game, where their spiteful rants have no meaning. Heckle all they want, it's just them being haters, and I'm being a good gamer. Game on. =]
The Witcher 2 (Enhanced edition)
Find it quite difficult so far though. (Not done with Chapter 1 yet)
Got Fire Emblem Awakening this satruday as a birthday gift. I have been playing that game too much in the last 2 days. Normal on classic Mode, so I lose characters if they die but I don't get my ass handed to me at all times (played on Hard for the first 4 chapters).
Crysis 3. Man, did they fuck this series up...
I really loved the first game. One of the best shooters I have played. I loved the openess, the setting and even the story. But both 2 and 3 got everything that was fun with the game wrong.
Like what? I only played Crysis 1. I'm betting the "open world" thing is gone.
Did you play Warhead? Was it like Crysis 1 or the other two? Was it any good?
Well, yes the open level design first and foremost. The maps are much smaller and narrower. It's a bit better in Crysis 3, but still far from the first game. A lot has to do with other parts of the design as well. It's pretty much action all the time, with barely any time to just explore or quietly sneak about and check out the area. I still remember so many great moments in the first game, for example when I snuck into an encampment, got what I needed and escaped by boat or something in a scene lifted from the cheesiest 90's action movie. It's hard to explain, but it's just not the same.
The suit works differently, and not in a good way. It was simple, basic and felt great in the first game. Now I pretty much only feel restricted by the suit. I have to switch to visor mode to tag enemies to even be able to see them, because everything is so dark and blends into the environment. But they get big annoying triangles above their heads that are often more in the way than helping out. And that doesn't really help when enemies tend to magically spawn close to you and notice you before you notice them. And the interface is so cluttered and awkward that it constantly feels in the way.
I keep getting stuck in terrain, which ruins stealth completely. I often have to stand up to be able to walk across the slightest height increase in the ground, which makes nearby enemies automatically detect me because they have magical hearing.
Weapons, while very similar, just don't feel right. I can't really say what has changed, but in Crysis 1 the selection was a bit small but there was a weapon for every situation and the customization helped make it feel like you weren't very restricted. Now it feels all over the place with many weapons doing pretty much the same thing. But none of them feeling right.
The story is so god damn shitty it's distracting from the game. I'm supposed to care about some radom girl who was just introduced and has been nothing but an annoyance so far. And the jump in theme is ridiculous. I'm not sure how much time has passed since the first game, but back then the suits were what was futuristic. Now everything is hella futuristic. And all the bullshit with the Ceph integrating with the suit and human DNA and everything often feels more fantasy than sci fi.
There's a lot more. In whole, I can sum it up by simply saying there's MOAR of everything and it's AWESUMER than evAR. Where Crysis took after Far Cry, Crysis 2 and 3 take after Call of Duty pretty much.
What I loved about Crysis was that it was still pretty low-key and you had to create those awesome action scenes yourself. And the contrast between the setting and sci fi elements really set the mood.
Oh, and no I didn't play Warhead because I heard it wasn't very much like the original game but instead more of a linear shooter. So I never bothered.
If you want Crysis 1 gameplay, rather check out Far Cry 3 if you haven't already. The story is very up and down, but the game was a lot of fun and there's a lot of room for both stealth and action. All in a beautiful landscape.
No, dota-likes all have the single worst community in any game I've ever seen. People genuinely get mad when you're new to the game, and flip a shit if you do A) Worse than them, becuase you're not pulling your weight, B) better than them, because you're stealing their kills and hampering their personal growth, or C) exactly the same as them, because you're being a smartass.
Peoples hurtful remarks don't really mean anything, but if I want to induce rage and hate I actually want to earn it, not accrue it simply from being present.
I am now playing Jagged Alliance 2, for the billionth time, with the Arulco Revisited Mod. Fun stuff.
If you think dota-likes got the worst community i would like you to play APB Reloaded for 5 hours without thinking of starting a genocide
I envy you. I heard Awakening is well-made game. I played Thracia 776 and it impressed me.
Because I'm feeling curious about inXile, I'm playing through that Bard's Tale action game released several years ago.
Well actively pursuing resentment is an activity I've never indulged in, so I'll just take your word on how you feel about getting it "without trying".
But really, there are worse communities than DotA's, or the ARTS and MOBA scenes, in general. I've played every DotA clone of the past decade, so I've had AMPLE exposure to them, trust me. I'm not saying that you WON'T encounter some seriously childish, massively egotistical douchebaggery, because you most certainly will. I'm simply stating that it's not unique to DotA, and that there's plenty of players who AREN'T like that. Granted, you have to be ranked at such a high bracket that you only play against the same thousand people, and even then you'll encounter sore loses and whiners 5% of the time. But compared to the beginners bracket, where you are GUARANTEED to run into this? The level of maturity displays a staggeringly marked improvement.
But if there's ever some form of exposure to the genre that you feel would "encourage" you not to detest it, because you'll consistently see players being decent and generous, and actively express the importance of not being rude asshats, check out purgegamers.com and watch a couple of his videos. He's a DotA player any non-professional-level DotA player should aspire to be. Good at the game, polite and anti-troll, surrounded by gosu asians, and has a voice the ladies go nuts over. Actually, now that I summarized all of that, I'm feeling somewhat resentful... that lucky bastard. XD
Everything was good untill boss fight.
It's too hard to beat the boss with spy character.
Just got back into Company of Heroes and Warhammer 40k Dawn of War......been a while since I've played them and very rusty, feel like a newbie, but both great games