God Awful Dialogue

ZigzagPX4 said:
See, the voice actors liked the lines too. I'm thinking that main management at Bethesda told the entire development team that the game was supposed to be cliché and stereotypical. Sort of like the modern Saint's Row games.
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I don't think so. I think the reason the actors like the lines so much is because everyone loves a check. Kinda like how actors will act in bad movies. So long as they get a check they don't give a fuck about the quality of the product or how truthful it is to the source material. That isn't whats going to help them pay off their new boat.
 
RangerBoo said:
I don't think so. I think the reason the actors like the lines so much is because everyone loves a check. Kinda like how actors will act in bad movies. So long as they get a check they don't give a fuck about the quality of the product or how truthful it is to the source material. That isn't whats going to help them pay off their new boat.
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Huh. The Reddit AMA with Courtenay Taylor seems to give off the idea that she enjoyed her job. Is everyone here really interpreting it as "corporate suppression of honest opinions"? It came off like an honest opinion to me.

Anyways, I wouldn't blame any of the VAs for any of the dialogue in the game. They did their job and they did it well. Let's not throw criticism at the people who don't deserve it. Fault goes more to the writer of the dialogue. Especially when you consider that most of the VAs had previous experience, of which they were really good in.

Since they're seriously one of the most underappreciated part of game development, not to mention occasionally the most poorly paid, let's not try to disrespect their work too much.
 
This is another thing that rustles me.

I hate people who can't voice their own real opinions or face repercussions like getting backlisted or whatever chastisement they will get in some way or another. It seems fake and i feel doesn't help at all.

It's probably why the star wars prequels were a disappointment none wanted to speak up and say no to gorge Lucas and look what that brought.
 
I feel like this site has not only a paranoia for corporate actions putting their hands over everything, but also an overstated dislike for people who do works in creative lines for the money and not for the art. And I say this site because I haven't seen anyone here who doesn't think this way. Apologies if I'm wrong, I'm quick to judge and nothing is going to change that.

It is not bad to do art for the money. Nor are all megacorporations greedy scumbags.
 
TransgenderVaultDeweller said:
This is another thing that rustles me.

I hate people who can't voice their own real opinions or face repercussions like getting backlisted or whatever chastisement they will get in some way or another. It seems fake and i feel doesn't help at all.

It's probably why the star wars prequels were a disappointment none wanted to speak up and say no to gorge Lucas and look what that brought.
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Or shit with Mass Effect 3. I found it hard to believe that no one, not even the actors, questioned Bioware on the stupid choices they made with that POS. I sometimes wish that these voice actors would pull a Mark Wahlberg and tell use how they really feel.
ZigzagPX4 said:
I feel like this site has not only a paranoia for corporate actions putting their hands over everything, but also an overstated dislike for people who do works in creative lines for the money and not for the art. And I say this site because I haven't seen anyone here who doesn't think this way. Apologies if I'm wrong, I'm quick to judge and nothing is going to change that.

It is not bad to do art for the money. Nor are all megacorporations greedy scumbags.
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You are quite naive to how the business side of gaming and movies work. A good example of that would be gaming journalism. Very rarely will sites like IGN or Kotaku gave a score of 7 or lower to a AAA title game like Bethesda due to them getting their paychecks from them. Same can be said about the voice actors. You never bite the hand that feeds you which is why many hate corporate gaming and AAA game companies because of what massive dictators they are. As there is a clear difference in quality with those that make games out of their love of gaming and people who make games just to make a lot of cash.
 
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RangerBoo said:
You are quite naive to how the business side of gaming and movies work. A good example of that would be gaming journalism. Very really will sites like IGN or Kotaku gave a score of 7 or lower to a AAA title game like Bethesda due to them getting their paychecks from them. Same can be said about the voice actors. You never bite the hand that feeds you which is why many hate corporate gaming and AAA game companies because of what massive dictators they are.
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I'm quite aware of how the industry work. I'm also quite aware that if I was on the business management side of these companies, using finance as pressure would be something I do normally. Money talks and that's the way it is. I have no problem with this, and I'm confused as to why people do. This is how a business works.

Of course, I don't approve of censorship or bribery. But that they're "dictators" is an overstatement. It's also a bit of overestimating how much they can do to control opinions. Money can turn a 7/10 to an 8/10, not a 0/10 to a 10/10.

The game industry would not survive if every single company was like Obsidian. This is fact.
 
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ZigzagPX4 said:
I'm quite aware of how the industry work. I'm also quite aware that if I was on the business management side of these companies, I would do the same. Money talks and that's the way it is. I have no problem with this, and I'm confused as to why people do.
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Like I said, lack of quality. There is a clear difference between game devs who make games out of their love for gaming and those that are just in it to make a lot of cash. With early Bioware games you can tell that there was a lot of love, sweat and effort put into their games but when they sold themselves out to EA there was a clear lack of quality that was coming from them. Many corporations gaming studios like EA and Bethesda don't care want made a series great. If something gets popular they immediately want to get their grubby hands on the series or the studio that made it in order to pump out as many squeals in order to make a lot of cash. The quality suffers as does the franchise and people forget what made them love the series in the first place. Not only that but many of these corporations encourage laziness. Why bother trying to make a product good. Just keep making the same one over and over or rip off other franchises. The cash will flow like a river.
 
I work in the legal field and if you have ever done any contract work with a business that has a public image you will see one of these. http://www.contractstandards.com/clauses/non-disparagement That's not to say that Courtney Taylor hates FO4, but you better believe even if she does you won't hear about it. As for reviewers I don't think it's bribery as much as it is fear of "THE BLACKLIST," especially when not getting review copies of games means less revenue.
 
Basically these corporate video game studios have everyone by the balls. Which is why so many people here have a disdain for AAA gaming studios.
 
I just don't tak the personal opinion of people who were paid to market the game and worked on it as having any validity whatsoever.

Because, seriously, what do you expect to be told? Of course they would told you they enjoyed it, they got to eat with the money they were given, they obviously where paid to be part of the marketing process too if all those numerous interviews are anything to go by and both voice actors have said they have never played any of the previous Fallout games... And also why should I care about the opinion of a perso nwho thinks Jack's dialogue in ME2 was also "badass"?
 
Well, my point is that the game industry would not survive if every single company in it had a mindset of "art first, support the community, money as a last priority". Give a whole bunch of indie companies AAA budget and resources and guaranteed not many of them will survive longer than a few years before either bankruptcy or redundancy.

And yes, I do know that corporations put a hold on employees giving honest opinions about their product. In which case, if we're working off opinions, a voice actor could cost a company a lot of valuable customers if they gave a subjective disapproval of the game.

What if (and the example is not related to Fallout) a game comes out well, but they've already lost a lot of potential sales simply because someone working on it said it wasn't good because of their own opinions? This is why there should be a suppression of "honest opinions" no matter what kind of media the company is producing. This is same for pre-release reviews. It's a loss if an unpopular opinion manages to stunt the sales of a decent product.

But I guess being anti-corporate is easier than seeing it from the business perspective. Do we all really think game development should only care about making a good game and put profit as the last priority? Because the only result to that is the developers not lasting.

Money does matter. A lot. Nothing wrong with that.
 
The existence of the AAA industry has done nothing but damage to the medium itself. The inflated budgets too, so many good games have ben done at a fraction of the price of those bloated AAA games and they usually surpass them in actual quality, and they have also made very good money from it.

Seeing it from the bussiness perspective? It's pretty easy, I don't think anyone here is ignorant of what their plan or goals are, is just that we don't have to like it one bit. Specially if those actually result in inferior products so consistently.
 
@ZigzagPX4, the professional corporate apologist. Defending these industries as a gamer is like being a anti-Nazi dissident defending Hitler in Germany. You can make all thr good points you want but its only going to bite you later. Hope you stay true to your word when games of the future becomes all repetitive cash grab crap.
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
Do we all really think game development should only care about making a good game and put profit as the last priority?
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Why do these things have to be mutually exclusive? I wouldn't consider CDPR an "indie" developer, from my perspective they care about making quality products in their vision over profit. This attitude has created a reputation of quality and if they released Cyberpunk tomorrow I'd buy it no questions asked because they have earned that from me.
 
Walpknut said:
The existence of the AAA industry has done nothing but damage to the medium itself. The inflated budgets too, so many good games have ben done at a fraction of the price of those bloated AAA games and they usually surpass them in actual quality, and they have also made very good money from it.

Seeing it from the bussiness perspective? It's pretty easy, I don't think anyone here is ignorant of what their plan or goals are, is just that we don't have to like it one bit. Specially if those actually result in inferior products so consistently.
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Fair enough, but personally, a lot of products from these AAA companies are ones that I've enjoyed a lot. An example would be the recent Assassin's Creed Syndicate, which I felt was quite underrated only because Ubisoft had begun partaking in EA-levels of greedy business practices. Maybe I really just have poorer standards than everyone here, so could you give me an example of a recent "inferior product" that isn't Fallout 4?

Spacemunkey said:
Why do these things have to be mutually exclusive? I wouldn't consider CDPR an "indie" developer, from my perspective they care about making quality products in their vision over profit. This attitude has created a reputation of quality and if they released Cyberpunk tomorrow I'd buy it no questions asked because they have earned that from me.
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CD Projekt RED is the exception and not the rule. People keep assuming that it's possible for the entire industry to function if every company was as "competent" as CDPR or Obsidian. CDPR runs off having never had to take risks, and Obsidian has fell into the financial troubles hole more than once. They're not a good indicator of how the industry should run.

ElderMaxson said:
@ZigzagPX4, the professional corporate apologist. Defending these industries as a gamer is like being a anti-Nazi dissident defending Hitler in Germany. You can make all thr good points you want but its only going to bite you later. Hope you stay true to your word when games of the future becomes all repetitive cash grab crap.
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I don't think AAA companies give a shit what my opinion is, so nothing I say here is going to "bite" me later.
 
Just stop already. Its attitude like yours that ruined the games industry. Being satisfied with force fed factory line crap rather than games devs actually enjoy playing themselves.

Sitting there and being pleased like a puppy to an abusive master is unproductive and nothing to boast about.

So you're happy with companies like these. Good for you. No need to spread that cancer of naivety and ignorance to other people with functional minds.
 
He has a point. Not every corporation can be Obsidian. That doesn't mean every corporation should be EA, but the industry would collapse in on itself if every corporation adopted the Obsidian approach, especially given how many times Obsidian's been in the hole. Not to mention companies like that tend to close down (cough Troika cough GSW cough Black friggin Isle cough)

There needs to be balance. As Machiavelli put it, sometimes, a leader must be ruthless.
 
Now the ol' triple A may be an unfortunate case of ruining the whole industry one piece at a time, but at the other end, it's hardly perfect. Considering the crap that comes out of Steam Greenlight, the indie scene is almost just as bad, even worse in some regard, even if it is capable of producing a gem from time to time.
 
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