Gripes by the Number: New Vegas nonsense

Pwener said:
:roffle::roffle::roffle:

Have you any idea how many pop culture references AKA "Easter Eggs" there are in Fallout 1? The bar in the Hub is called the Maltese Falcon after the famous Humphrey Bogart film. Mentats are super-intelligent humans in Dune. Dogmeat's owner is a freaking Mad Max expy.
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These ones listed kind of fit the game though, they don't clash like the ghost in the second game.

Though saying that, the ghost never bothered me to be honest. IIRC, only the Chosen One has actually seen her? (I'm probably wrong on this but it's been years since I've played Fallout 2).
 
Pwener said:
:roffle::roffle::roffle:

Have you any idea how many pop culture references AKA "Easter Eggs" there are in Fallout 1? The bar in the Hub is called the Maltese Falcon after the famous Humphrey Bogart film. Mentats are super-intelligent humans in Dune. Dogmeat's owner is a freaking Mad Max expy.

Ect. Ect. Ect.

A (not-complete) list of easter eggs littered all over the main game you say don't count: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_cultural_references

Funnily enough, only the first in that list is a random encounter. So how can "easter eggs" not count when they make up a substantial chunk of the game? You can't pick and choose. The truth is that Fallout was like that from the very start. Fallout 2 simply took it to 11 and Fallout 3 ironically enough toned it back down.
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Prone Squanderer said:
These ones listed kind of fit the game though, they don't clash like the ghost in the second game.

Though saying that, the ghost never bothered me to be honest. IIRC, only the Chosen One has actually seen her? (I'm probably wrong on this but it's been years since I've played Fallout 2).
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Yes, I know all of them. Naming something Maltese Falcon is one thing. SKYNET is another. One of the companions in the game is literally a ripoff of Terminator.
 
Pwener said:
:roffle::roffle::roffle:

Have you any idea how many pop culture references AKA "Easter Eggs" there are in Fallout 1? The bar in the Hub is called the Maltese Falcon after the famous Humphrey Bogart film. Mentats are super-intelligent humans in Dune. Dogmeat's owner is a freaking Mad Max expy.

Ect. Ect. Ect.

A (not-complete) list of easter eggs littered all over the main game you say don't count: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_cultural_references

Funnily enough, only the first in that list is a random encounter. So how can "easter eggs" not count when they make up a substantial chunk of the game? You can't pick and choose. The truth is that Fallout was like that from the very start. Fallout 2 simply took it to 11 and Fallout 3 ironically enough toned it back down.
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You do not get it at all. References, or in the case of Fallout 1, the SERIOUS use of fitting names/look-alike scenes taken from cultures for a drug increasing intelligence, a bar, the story of a other traveler you never meet, and ect, are all well INTEGRATED within the world. They aren't stupid and out of place. They are serious and serve a purpose.

You can't compare the serious use of culture in Fallout 1 with the freaking circus of Fallout 2. And don't use the random encounters requiring 9 or 10 luck as a 'argument'. I only saw them once in 20 years and who know how many times of playing Fallout 1. Even these special encounters are more subtle than most of their counterpart in Fallout 2, and worst, some out of place situations staring you in the face in every playthrought.
Can you really compare the use of the name 'mentats' for a well integrated element, with the 'chosen one' quoting the Godfather out of nowhere and for no valid reason, a man stopping you at a bridge to outright ask you 'what npc in Fallout 1 also exist in Fallout 2?'
Stuart Little can quote X-Files, really, because it sort of fit the conversation where he can do that. However he start telling you outright that he know it's all a game and that 'they were limited in models during the development of Fallout 2'.
No, the chosen one can't possibly have seen Hannibal Lecter on holodisk and I don't care how many pre-war gadgets he may have found by the time he get to San Fransisco.

I could go on but my point seem clear to me. In case it's not to you, then don't speak of things that went completely over your head. Fallout was not 'like that from the very start'.
 
FDO said:
I could go on but my point seem clear to me. In case it's not to you, then don't speak of things that went completely over your head. Fallout was not 'like that from the very start'.
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Ok professor, calm down. Did I or did I not say Fallout 2 took it to 11? You do know what that means right? I love when people with slightly broken english and posts with obvious typos insult my intelligence. Maybe you should use a Mentat yourself? Just saying.

Now, petty insults aside, let's get back on-topic.

You say that pop culture references were better integrated in Fallout 1 but said game also has characters quoting movies out of nowhere. Did you not go through the list I linked to? Tsk tsk. It points out how the BoS that assault Mariposa quote the "chew bubblegum, kick ass" line from "They Live" that has been beaten to death over the decades.

So look, Fallout 1 also randomly quoted movies for no reason. Like I said, Fallout 2 just ran with it but Fallout 1 wasn't that different to begin with. Fallout 2 has more of everything Fallout 1 had. Including all this nonsense.

I will give you Stuart breaking the 4th wall however. Found it funny the first time but changed it myself later.

Well off with you, go burn your copy of Fallout 2 since you seem to hate it so much. Btw, Fallout 76 is coming out soon. Hope you enjoy it you tasteless fiend.
 
I am not english, and I never learned much of anything in a school. If you think that 'academic' knowledge is a sign of intelligence, you are the one in need of a mentat.

Fallout 2 has much more of everything. Yes it's true, only it doesn't make quality and it doesn't make it Fallout 1 quality. I reconize what is well made in Fallout 2, and I don't hate it. You seem much more disposed to enjoy bethesda 76 than me. I sure must have played Fallout 1 for longer than you so I don't need your list to tell me what is well integrated and what is tolerably subtle in the big picture.
Fallout 2 engine has improvements and is much more convenient for modding, I give it that.

Anyway I am out of this kind of talking, my mistake on that, feel free to make excuses for Fallout 2 flaws with whoever want to listen.
 
FDO said:
I am not english, and I never learned much of anything in a school. If you think that 'academic' knowledge is a sign of intelligence, you are the one in need of a mentat.

Fallout 2 has much more of everything. Yes it's true, only it doesn't make quality and it doesn't make it Fallout 1 quality. I reconize what is well made in Fallout 2, and I don't hate it. You seem much more disposed to enjoy bethesda 76 than me. I sure must have played Fallout 1 for longer than you so I don't need your list to tell me what is well integrated and what is tolerably subtle in the big picture.
Fallout 2 engine has improvements and is much more convenient for modding, I give it that.

Anyway I am out of this kind of talking, my mistake on that, feel free to make excuses for Fallout 2 flaws with whoever want to listen.
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  1. Proper language use and proofreading your posts are hardly academic qualities. My first language isn't english either.
  2. What the hell is "Fallout 1 quality?"
  3. Length of play (experience with the game) was rendered irrelevant the moment you criticized Fallout 2 for randomly quoting a movie when Fallout 1 does the exact same thing. Get a grip man!
  4. In my experience, modding F1 is easier than F2 since the engine for the sequel is designed to erase proto files and I prefer to play the games on Android so I can't set them to "read only." I have to manually insert critter files into the master.dat using a program Nirran wrote. I also have a functioning F1 mapper which I doubt many people have ever bothered to set up.

FDO said:
Anyway I am out of this kind of talking, my mistake on that, feel free to make excuses for Fallout 2 flaws with whoever want to listen.
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This whole argument is pretty funny to me considering I like Fallout 1 more than 2.

FDO said:
You seem much more disposed to enjoy bethesda 76 than me.
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Oh come now. Why don't we put this all under the bridge and admit to each other which Fallout we all know is the best one...

ps2_fallout_brotherhood_of_steel_p_z4fyx8~01.jpg
 
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Pwener said:
It was already a joke back in Fallout 1, just a toned down and more serious-looking kind of joke. Or do people forget the giant footprint, crashed saucer and Doctor Who random encounters? I was so used to Fallout being wacky and zany that I didn't bat an eye the moment I saw the police box for the first time. My only reaction was; "Oh cool, the doctor left me a motion sensor!"
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There is a distinction in those. All of the special encounters took place in the deep wastelands; never in towns or other populated areas; where others could see it too.

Anything you see out in the wastes can be hallucination, misunderstood perception,... or just plain odd. There was a certain 'Heavy Metal~esque' nature to the great wastes.

The alien ship in Fallout had a velvet Elvis painting in it. It could plausibly have been a movie set-piece, festival prop, or part of a hoax; any of a myriad of meaningless pre-war reasons—or flat-out imagined by the dehydrated vault dweller. This goes for the used car lot too; even the foot print and the T.A.R.D.I.S. (Despite the technology they may have found there—or didn't, and think they did.)

...Or it could have somehow been real, or partially real... but there is no proof of it.

Fallout 2 had the mistake of proof in it. That silly Scorpion gag took place in the middle of Marcus' own town. The Renewal cult had town members in the cult. Brain (sans Pinky) was real; the Chosen one could have (in theory) brought others from the town down there to prove it to them.

Fallout 2 had a ghost; and it was a quest giver!? (And it stalked the adjacent room to the museum)

Fallout 2 had talking plants.
 
Gizmojunk said:
There is a distinction in those. All of the special encounters took place in the deep wastelands; never in towns or other populated areas; where others could see it too.

Anything you see out in the wastes can be hallucination, misunderstood perception,... or just plain odd. There was a certain 'Heavy Metal~esque' nature to the great wastes.

The alien ship in Fallout had a velvet Elvis painting in it. It could plausibly have been a movie set-piece, festival prop, or part of a hoax; any of a myriad of meaningless pre-war reasons—or flat-out imagined by the dehydrated vault dweller. This goes for the used car lot too; even the foot print and the T.A.R.D.I.S. (Despite the technology they may have found there—or didn't, and think they did.)

...Or it could have somehow been real, or partially real... but there is no proof of it.

Fallout 2 had the mistake of proof in it. That silly Scorpion gag took place in the middle of Marcus' own town. The Renewal cult had town members in the cult. Brain (sans Pinky) was real; the Chosen one could have (in theory) brought others from the town down there to prove it to them.

Fallout 2 had a ghost; and it was a quest giver!? (And it stalked the adjacent room to the museum)

Fallout 2 had talking plants.
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I'm not bothered by any of that. I've never actually taken Fallout too seriously and I question the sanity and moral fiber of those that do. I appreciate how F3 and NV went with a more serious tone but the isometric gameplay of F1/F2 really favors the game having an underlying zany nature to it with nonsense like that sprinkled around.
 
Ok, ok, replaying through OWB, 'never again' wasn't quite true after all. Let's not get carried away, my opinion didn't change, it's still mediocre, too far 'outhere' if you see what I mean, and boring.

However, the second time around is far more playable, mainly because I know where to go, what to expect, when to fight and finally, when to simply run away to save up some time, stimpacks and ammo.
A few stealth boys carefully saved for OWB don't hurt either.

About 4 hours only and I am almost done, soon to reach Moebius. Even found the occasions to make a few side visits, maybe I am gonna try to wrap up a few side quests this time around, making the trip a little more worthwile.

It's still sad when a DLC, or any game, require metagaming to become playable. Very sad.
 
OWB is an excellent dlc. It is very wacky, but its informed by theme, and that makes it something that lets you wander in thought as you play. It starts with that ominous bit of "We had all the answers, but they were answers to the wrong question." And that rings true. Old World Blues is largely about a world that is missing something. Whether its the crater missing the mountain, you who has lost your brain, the trauma suits who have lost their wielders, its all playing to this theme. And as you go, there is this concurrent theme of a journey from emptiness to completion that is quite artful. You have the barren sink that is cold in lifeless, that one by one gets populated by friendly little AI. By the end, the sink is a lovely home. In the same way, you get to meet back with your own brain in a journey for completion. It does remind me of fallout 2. Its very silly, but its smart and well made. And even in the end you get to see a lot of satire of the past and there is a more tragic story underneath. It takes the sci-fi aspect of Fallout to its furthest conclusions and does something that is unexpected and interesting with it to tell new stories. You get to see old world technology as it was meant to be. Like magic. Anything can happen in the wasteland. Its something I find is more rewarding than Honest Hearts or Dead Money.

For me its Lonesome Road > Old World Blues > everything else. Lonesome Road reminds me of serious themes of fallout 2 and old world blues reminds me of the comedy.
 
I liked Old World Blues, mainly just for writing. The combat is easily the weakest part of the DLC, specially if you go in there at an high level. Enemies just become damage sponges, made worse by the fact they seem to respawn.

Lonesome Road is definitely my least favorite part of New Vegas. Unecessary, tacked on backstory to your character in a game where coming up with your own backstory is one of the main points. The DLC is just linear, with hardly any exploration. Ulysses and his backstory are pretty cool though and it's my favorite thing in the DLC.
 
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Don't be fooled by OWB's goofy-ass humor. It actually has pretty good writing and a decent story. One of my biggest complaints with OWB is how thoroughly it trashes the economy in FNV with all the phat lewt and stuff you can get. You can get ALL the implants and STILL be richer than House coming out of OWB.
 
Old World Blues basically is quick sandbox from core gameplay, tacked with house system. If you like playing such games (Red Faction, Saints Row....) then it's a great DLC to raise up your kleptomanic tendencies. Although it's really easy to get overpowered with all the stuff there is.
 
Old World Blues is pretty worthless if you don't have that thematic backing. It makes the jokes fit in with everything else and makes it not become a schizophrenic mess. I feel like saying combat is really poor in Old World Blues is off color because combat in all of New Vegas and just... fallout in general, isn't great.

I liked Lonesome Road because it felt like the ultimate conclusion to Fallout New Vegas. It solved all my issues with the vanilla ending. It told us more about the courier, and I found that fascinating. I don't have a problem with them giving you information on who you were before the bullet, because you are effectively different people now. You don't even have memory of who you are, and that plays into themes. I love how the divide is both a road to be traveled and a chasm that can't be crossed. Ulysses cares so much about the past and wants to know if history matters, but you are a person who can not know his past. You make the journey as a fellow messenger to cross the divide, making a road of it as you once did before, to bridge that gap in understanding despite your differences. The divide is also the animosity of war given form. Warriors from every side have forgotten why they fight, but they remember the wounds. The whole area of the divide can be seen in that light as a great wound, literally from thousands of nuclear warheads ripping the earth apart and sending it skyward. It is the purest form of war and aggression, and it shows an end game level of fallout that doesn't rely on clean floors and shiny laser guns. Its not a sci-fi future level like the rehashes of enclave or the institute or brotherhood of steel, which have become so standard for fallout. Its the brutality of warzone tech and nuclear weapons, which hasn't been called upon often. I love the inclusion of tunnelers as well. The whole dlc seems like a big fuck you to bethesda saying "Look at what we can do with original content and creativity with the setting?"

Is it linear? Hell yeah. Are you gonna have fun if you want exploration? Not a chance! I feel its there for all the people who enjoy picking apart the themes of a location and a story.
 
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