yfk12
Degenerate who belongs on a cross
Oh yes, I'm sure their AR-15s would be incredibly effective against a predator drone.
Gun Control
- Thread starter Throatpunch
- Start date
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
Polish and Bulgarian for me.
that's alabama +
might be im just ignorant but i cant imagine how all that could possibly put into practice without raising taxes which are already too high as it is.
unrealistic. you cant lift everyone out of poverty.
yfk12
Degenerate who belongs on a cross
We we slightly redistributed our nation's wealth, we could pretty easily push everyone out of the poverty line.
For reference, here's a chart of our current wealth distribution:
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
are you advocating communism? in 2018? are you retarded?
what do you mean redistribute?
because it sounds like a fancy way of saying steal.
well it is worth noting that they don't have all that money for no reason. they've likely either earned it or inherited it from someone who did so....
yfk12
Degenerate who belongs on a cross
There is a massive difference between communism and simply taxing the ultra-rich more, while also lowering taxes for the poor.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
that's not redistributing wealth. that's just actively discouraging success and giving incentive to stay poor. which there's already too much of. had a buddy who was living with his girlfriend. they were struggling fucking hard. went to try to get some foodstamps. they said they'd give them $40 a month. they told them if they needed more the best thing they could do was have a kid. i was with them at the time i swear to god i about went over that table.
No they are not. They are actually to low, which is the problem. The US had an income tax of 91% under Eisenhower. And that is the tax we should aim at again. And yes, it would be extremly easy to push everyone above the poverty line and you could even still have some wealthy people. What you can't have anymore though, is billionairs eventually. But who needs those anyway?
One thing is becoming very clear when you look at our nations and the state of the world with its pollution and economy. What we can do, is provide everyone with a decent life. But what we can't do, is providing for everyones wealth. It's literaly killing this planet for us making it inhospitable. Cuting dow of the rainforrrest, overfishing of the oceans, overproduction and consumption of goods, while half of the food is thrown away, all for an economy that is fueld by the ideology of unlimited growth so that a few can get higher interests. There is no way how we can keep up this kind of economic status for ever. Already 2/3 of the animals on this planet are either extinct or facing extinction. And all of this is directly tied to the distribution of wealth where more and more money is concetrated on the top. Exponential growth demands that to increase the interest production and consumption has to grow as well, which means more resources have to be gained in a shorter time for lower costs.
We really have to get away from this idea that is drilled in our heads that we absolutely need economic growth to have decent lifes, which is simply not possible on a planet with finite resources and space. We do already produce more food and products than most people need, which is reflected even by the GDPs of most western countries, if you divided it by the numbers of citizens. We have growth rates in our economies that are usually only known with cancer cells.
It's becoming more and more a question of survival and stability and not of ideology. Time is runing out and we're still believing that this kind of lifestyle we have, is sustainable or actually beneficial. The hard truth though is, that it isn't. We're a planet with 7 billion humans, it won't take long and it will be 8. There is no way how we can provide this lifestyle for everyone. We're alrady spending 1.5 times more resources this planet can regenerate, in other words we would need one and a half more planets. We're like an obese person and the more time we spend overconsuming, the worse the effects will be in the future.
Funny how that goes.
We can send someone to the moon, soon maybe to mars - they're working on it.
We can split atoms.
We can send someone to the bottom of the ocean, and get him back.
But for some unexplainable reason, we can't get people out of poverty. That's impossible. Curious what people will see as impossible in 100 years. Remember at some point they thought it would be impossible to get rid of feudalism, slavery and human rights and worker rights would be impossible to achieve. Our whole human history is a constant struggle for improvement where ethics, humanity and moral have become more and more important in our decisions. Why should it suddenly stop? I am probably way to optimstic here, but I do not think that it's as diffcult as some people tell us. It's definetly not a technical limitation that's holding us back.
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BigGuyCIA
Yer fond of me Lobster!
Graves is right though. You can't lift everyone out of poverty for the same reason you can take a horse to water but can't force it to drink.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
well there's a big difference between scientific progress and dealing with poor people. one thing's for sure if this is how government handles poor people then we ain't fixing shit:
Beyond that, people want stability; a job, not a bailout. We need long term solutions and getting people out’ve poverty is only half the issue.
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Aurelius
Militias may not be able to quash a tank but we can certainly assassinate any Hitler wannabees. Remember, the NSDAP didn't succeed in their putsch either yea? Hitler went to jail. NSDAP outlawed. Now if someone decided to assassinate Hitler, well they did try it. Problem with that was Hitler was incredibly fucking lucky. I doubt our politicians, trying to pull some New Founding Fathers shit, will be as lucky.
Arnust
There ya go. 'Fuck you I got mine', is deeply ingrained in American culture. Thing is, if that were the ONLY thing ingrained in American culture, we would be this sort of post-apocalyptic warzone you and Scalp mention so often, yet you are so terribly wrong. Thing is, in this country we believe that altruism is a CHOICE. Not a club for the government to wield and be beaten by. Nothing stops people who need help with setting up Go Fund Me pages.
And you missed the second part, we are a nation of 320 MILLION people. Kind of makes free shit hard to pay for and even harder to legislate, since Americans as a whole, find nanny states problematic.
Crni
Define poverty? Or better yet, to use the buzzword the liberals love, 'a living wage'. Problem is, there cannot be a single definition because inherently, people have different expectations.
Now I can agree with you on one thing, higher taxes on the super ultra rich. Problem is, in the words of the liberals, these guys only represent ONE PERCENT of the population. Add in the fact that free shit programs are ALWAYS trotted out as much cheaper than they eventually will be, it wouldn't be enough. One big example is covering pre existing conditions. How is that even insurance anymore?
Not to mention free shit tends to snowball (like my previous example), which will end up causing rates to sky rocket. I mean, why the hell did Obama need the Individual Mandate, because free shit states inherently need to club people into going along. If we needed a mandate just for Obamacare, imagine the kind of policies needed to enact healthcare for all. Imagine the inevitable, massive, across the board, tax hike, that will be levied upon an already stressed populace.
Now I am not saying we shouldn't try, and we can have a couple of reforms before actually embarking on some kind of UHC or UBI. Reform the medical field and actually LIST the cost of every treatment, every box of cereal eaten, every fucking ambulance ride. With solid costs listed, we can begin to have competition in the medical field where patients can actually choose whichever service they want. If St. Judes is too fucking expensive, one can go to another alternative. We can reform the litigious system that provides a HUGE burden in cost as hospitals have to prepare for every type of lawsuit under the sun. These potential lawsuits manifests themselves in the form of increased cost to the consumer. We can debate about maybe outlawing the ability for hospitals to tend to charge more for services, if they find out the consumer has insurance, as opposed to the same treatment being cheaper, if the consumer does not have insurance (now I understand this is a bit sticky as EMTALA has forced hospitals to do just this to maintain solvency). With these and other reforms, we can now work on insurance companies as well. Premiums will be cheaper as a lot of guesswork can be eliminated from actuary tables. If we can work on a compromise, rates can be lowered if the government can use the tax from the ultra rich to subsidize EMTALA costs. We can further reduce cost if we work on the same litigious system, this time, on insurance companies.
All of these prerequisites are NOT being done and THIS is why our system is kind of some mutant monster that is a jack of all trades and master of none. Many Americans want change but the retards from both sides are the loudest and the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Only education, and in time, will people get smarter. Racism is evil and should be a no fucking brainer. Same with any type of discrimination but yet look how long it took the world to outlaw something as basic as slavery, phrenology, eugenics, women suffrage, etc. I now return to the population problem again. Much like why Japan was able to modernize faster than China, Japan simply had less people to deal with. The bigger the nation, the more obstacles needed to surpass.
Militias may not be able to quash a tank but we can certainly assassinate any Hitler wannabees. Remember, the NSDAP didn't succeed in their putsch either yea? Hitler went to jail. NSDAP outlawed. Now if someone decided to assassinate Hitler, well they did try it. Problem with that was Hitler was incredibly fucking lucky. I doubt our politicians, trying to pull some New Founding Fathers shit, will be as lucky.
Arnust
There ya go. 'Fuck you I got mine', is deeply ingrained in American culture. Thing is, if that were the ONLY thing ingrained in American culture, we would be this sort of post-apocalyptic warzone you and Scalp mention so often, yet you are so terribly wrong. Thing is, in this country we believe that altruism is a CHOICE. Not a club for the government to wield and be beaten by. Nothing stops people who need help with setting up Go Fund Me pages.
And you missed the second part, we are a nation of 320 MILLION people. Kind of makes free shit hard to pay for and even harder to legislate, since Americans as a whole, find nanny states problematic.
Crni
Define poverty? Or better yet, to use the buzzword the liberals love, 'a living wage'. Problem is, there cannot be a single definition because inherently, people have different expectations.
Now I can agree with you on one thing, higher taxes on the super ultra rich. Problem is, in the words of the liberals, these guys only represent ONE PERCENT of the population. Add in the fact that free shit programs are ALWAYS trotted out as much cheaper than they eventually will be, it wouldn't be enough. One big example is covering pre existing conditions. How is that even insurance anymore?
Not to mention free shit tends to snowball (like my previous example), which will end up causing rates to sky rocket. I mean, why the hell did Obama need the Individual Mandate, because free shit states inherently need to club people into going along. If we needed a mandate just for Obamacare, imagine the kind of policies needed to enact healthcare for all. Imagine the inevitable, massive, across the board, tax hike, that will be levied upon an already stressed populace.
Now I am not saying we shouldn't try, and we can have a couple of reforms before actually embarking on some kind of UHC or UBI. Reform the medical field and actually LIST the cost of every treatment, every box of cereal eaten, every fucking ambulance ride. With solid costs listed, we can begin to have competition in the medical field where patients can actually choose whichever service they want. If St. Judes is too fucking expensive, one can go to another alternative. We can reform the litigious system that provides a HUGE burden in cost as hospitals have to prepare for every type of lawsuit under the sun. These potential lawsuits manifests themselves in the form of increased cost to the consumer. We can debate about maybe outlawing the ability for hospitals to tend to charge more for services, if they find out the consumer has insurance, as opposed to the same treatment being cheaper, if the consumer does not have insurance (now I understand this is a bit sticky as EMTALA has forced hospitals to do just this to maintain solvency). With these and other reforms, we can now work on insurance companies as well. Premiums will be cheaper as a lot of guesswork can be eliminated from actuary tables. If we can work on a compromise, rates can be lowered if the government can use the tax from the ultra rich to subsidize EMTALA costs. We can further reduce cost if we work on the same litigious system, this time, on insurance companies.
All of these prerequisites are NOT being done and THIS is why our system is kind of some mutant monster that is a jack of all trades and master of none. Many Americans want change but the retards from both sides are the loudest and the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Only education, and in time, will people get smarter. Racism is evil and should be a no fucking brainer. Same with any type of discrimination but yet look how long it took the world to outlaw something as basic as slavery, phrenology, eugenics, women suffrage, etc. I now return to the population problem again. Much like why Japan was able to modernize faster than China, Japan simply had less people to deal with. The bigger the nation, the more obstacles needed to surpass.
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I think there is a missunderstanding here. Yes, you can not protect everyone from his own responsibility - nor should we, but you could make sure that everyone has at least an INCOME that is pushing him/her over the poverty line. And it's actually pretty effective. I am certain that more experiments will show how beneficial it is. Just to make this clear, I repeat, the intention is not to pay someones gambling depts or to protect everyone from making bad choices. The intention is to give people options and some liberty over their live. If we don't we might actually really end up loosing our democracies, since nothing is going to make things worse than wealth inequality. The less money people have, the more influence will the rich class have over politics. The US is already on their way to an oligarchy - if it hasn't already reached that point ...
I am pretty sure there are a lot of intelligent people out there that could calculate it. They did it in Germany when they decided how much wellfare someone should receive. It's not impossible. I think most people who are now living in poverty, for what ever reason, will be happy about any kind of raise, the majority will be happy without a cruising yacht in Monaco and living in fancy hotels.
Also what you give out to people isn't 'free' shit. It's not more free than police stations, fire fighters or education. What you're buying with health care, social wellfare and the like is social stability. You're making sure that a random hobo isn't stabbing you or someone you know and hold dear with a knive for a fucking can of soda or a sandwich.
Infact, the opposite is actually true, keeping this kind of poverty and inequality is fucking expensive for a society. There is a real economic cost to poverty, particularly child poverty costs 1 Trillion dollars, according to a study. The reasons are very simple, poverty is a huge burden that requires a lot of resources from people. Resources that are now missing from the ecnomy, think about people that had no money for higher education and thus couldn't use their skills to do something, or people becoming drug addicts, criminals, you name it. Those are very real costs. And we havn't even talked about all the things the so called gated communities have to do to protect them self, which is also very expensive. So wealthy peopleare not even saving that much in the end, as the money they save on one side has to be thrown out on more insurance, protection etc.
Eh not really. You had always someone somewhere saying, well this isn't possible! It's to dangerous! To expensive! Yada yada.
If we listened to all of them, we wouldn't have any kind of social security today, no democracy, no workers rights and never any kind of social reforms, gays could still not marry, no voting rights for women, we would be still bowing to some kings ruling over us with iron fists. Or who knows, we might still be living in clay huts or caves throwing poo at each other.
Our society can make progress and it has made progress in the past. I mean imagine if you told the average Joe in 1818 that in 2018 a gay couple can get married and that America had a black president. Maybe a trip to the moon might have been more realistic in his eyes.
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R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
its a shame we can. took away the best pert of being a faggot. "i would marry you but i can't" is no longer something i can say which is fucking lame dude.
so i was fired for contraband this one time. i filed a grievance with the union and during the grievance meeting they said i was still fired and the union rep basically said "lol no he's not" and that was that. still can't be a lead or set foot in my old department again for like... 9 more months but hey that shit was dope.
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you mean like Africa?
that's... that actually sounds like it could be accurate. hell im a star trek fan let's all get together with hopeless autism-- i mean optimism.
Hopeless autism is best autism
So you do not want our society to progress and become better?
Seriously does no one here have at least some kind of idea on how a better future could look like?
But what I was talking about are working conditions coal miners in Germany experienced during the 18th century. If you wanted to marry someone you had to actually ask your employer first for example. Or we go a bit further back the whole nightmare that feudalism represented.
The point is, historically speaking humanity has seen some constant progress and there is no reason to believe that this will suddenly stop - unless we fuck it up.
Seriously does no one here have at least some kind of idea on how a better future could look like?
I am sure that sucks and I am sorry to hear that.
But what I was talking about are working conditions coal miners in Germany experienced during the 18th century. If you wanted to marry someone you had to actually ask your employer first for example. Or we go a bit further back the whole nightmare that feudalism represented.
The point is, historically speaking humanity has seen some constant progress and there is no reason to believe that this will suddenly stop - unless we fuck it up.
I am pretty sure most countries have a higher living standard than 200 years ago. There is a reason why the population is growing in Africa.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
ay i know we're starving and living in mud huts and aids is just everywhere but you know what? LETS HAVE NINE KIDS!!!
How much do you actually know about Africa really?
@Crni Vuk I mean, the idea that “progress is only what I believe” is... a little close-minded, don’t you think? You’ve made a lot of good points, I just believe that freedom and safety can coexist. Again, New Hampshire. Flamethrowers. Third safest state in the Union.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
they have a pretty bad bug problem.
also its the kind of environement that breed's people like general butt naked so... im sure its not great.