Healthcare reform just passed!

I didn't said they don't exist. I just said I saw lots of republicans, and all of them fitted in the stereotype.

Professor Danger said:
It forces you to buy health care and penalizes you if you don't.
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Huh, if the republicans weren't so stubborn, the public option would still be possible.
 
Radiated Heinz said:
Radiated Heinz said:
Huh, if americans weren't so stubborn and lobby was not allowed to make all that difference in politics, the public option would still be possible.
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fixed.
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I'll give you lobbyists. I hate lobbyists. But how can you just say "Americans"? The people didn't have anything to do with this. Sure, the majority of Americans have been polled saying that they don't want it. But since when did the government listen to it's people.

This was politicians and lobbyists. Not the public.
 
Ok, this is a goverment question. Not public.

But, so, whats the explanation for when the bill still had a public option? Why go against it? To me thats just being stubborn.
 
Professor Danger! said:
Still doesn't it seem wrong when you can't convince one republican (at least one, you usually can) OR the people in your own party?
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I would be more concerned with this if they were only able to convince a few republicans. Being able to convince none simply shows me that the republicans stood by party lines and nothing more in this matter. I respect the democrats who voted against it (because they actually had their reasons), more than all the republicans who simply did what their political party machine told them to do.
 
It's a bit odd that thread has got a bunch of Europeans (and 1 Brazilian, I think) arguing with Americans about what is right for America.
 
I'll remember that and laugh next time your government say that my country or any of my neighbors is doing something wrong or next time I study all things your country has done to latin america saying it was to protect democracy and freedom hahaha.

Now, one fact: America its habited by humans, and humans have the same needs and should have the same rights everywhere. Thats make us legible to argue with americans about america. We should not take decisions by them, but I think we have the absolute right to criticize the US the same the US criticize every one.
 
OakTable said:
It's a bit odd that thread has got a bunch of Europeans (and 1 Brazilian, I think) arguing with Americans about what is right for America.
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You DO realize that a large proportion (about a half) of your Americans fellows are actually for this reform and not against it, do you ? It's all over the polls.
So your point that we support it because we are foreign is quite moot to say the least...
 
OakTable said:
It's a bit odd that thread has got a bunch of Europeans (and 1 Brazilian, I think) arguing with Americans about what is right for America.
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Given that our systems work and yours doesn't, it's pretty easy to see why that happens.
 
Radiated Heinz said:
as if there are no people like the stereotype I just described
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Is this not the same, sound logic used to defend other bigotry like racial profiling? Let's not go there.

The republicans can't win for losing I guess, they are really being over-valued here. They are a non-factor here and largely impotent, watching from the sidelines. This bill was bullied through without even the faintest hint of bi-partisanship or cooperation. I don't care which party does it or what the issue is, that's bad government. It was bad when the neo-cons did it last administration, and it's bad now. All it serves to do is polarize the two sides and disenfranchise people even further.

You DO realize that a large proportion (about a half) of your Americans fellows are actually for this reform and not against it, do you ? It's all over the polls.
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So why not have a referendum out in the open instead of some shady, backroom partisan power plays without any attempts at consensus, compromise, or cooperation?
I'm all for HC reform personally, but the way this came down is very sketchy.

Tagaziel said:
Given that our systems work and yours doesn't, it's pretty easy to see why that happens.
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Wow, way to raise the dialogue.
 
shady backroom partisan... this is starting to sound like a parody on the daily show.

What's next, shoved down our throats?

Somwhow I remember seeing televised attempts at both consensus and compromise, but all I heard from the opposition was "start over from scratch".
 
Arr0nax said:
OakTable said:
It's a bit odd that thread has got a bunch of Europeans (and 1 Brazilian, I think) arguing with Americans about what is right for America.
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You DO realize that a large proportion (about a half) of your Americans fellows are actually for this reform and not against it, do you ? It's all over the polls.
So your point that we support it because we are foreign is quite moot to say the least...
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Just stating a fact. I've been aware of the fact that the opinions about the healthcare bill are about 50/50 in the U.S.
 
Dead Guy said:
shady backroom partisan... this is starting to sound like a parody on the daily show.

What's next, shoved down our throats?

Somwhow I remember seeing televised attempts at both consensus and compromise, but all I heard from the opposition was "start over from scratch".
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Well, since, what, 80-85% of Americans HAVE health care and the fact that it wasn't voted on by the people. Yeah, it kind of is shoved down America's throats.
 
Its a very ironic paradox. The nation that are the biggest self-proclaimed "democracy defenders" are one of the most failed democracies I've ever saw.
 
Radiated Heinz said:
Its a very ironic paradox. The nation that are the biggest self-proclaimed "democracy defenders" are one of the most failed democracies I've ever saw.
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No one wants to work together. I think people (or at least they should have) are a bit more of aware of it after this. It's pretty bad. And what we got is a "law" that kinda sucks and doesn't do what it should.

Still, I'd rather be in America than China.

But it's kinda scary. Remember how long it took Rome to fall? America could always be on it's way down.

But no one really cares. *shrugs*
 
Professor Danger! said:
Well, since, what, 80-85% of Americans HAVE health care and the fact that it wasn't voted on by the people.
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Unlike all those other laws that get passed.
Wait.
 
Sander said:
Professor Danger! said:
Well, since, what, 80-85% of Americans HAVE health care and the fact that it wasn't voted on by the people.
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Unlike all those other laws that get passed.
Wait.
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Yeah?

It would be fine if representatives represented the people, not their own interests.
 
Professor Danger! said:
Yeah?

It would be fine if representatives represented the people, not their own interests.
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The idea is that representatives do, as their future hinges on re-election, meaning they want to please the people.

In any case, the way this bill was 'pushed through' is no different from how most close bills get passed. It's just that this got a lot of publicity.
 
Sander said:
Professor Danger! said:
Yeah?

It would be fine if representatives represented the people, not their own interests.
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The idea is that representatives do, as their future hinges on re-election, meaning they want to please the people.

In any case, the way this bill was 'pushed through' is no different from how most close bills get passed. It's just that this got a lot of publicity.
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Alright. I agree with you on this.

I really need to tap out on this, though. I'm awful at debating. And politics make me angry. Not a good combo.
 
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