Healthcare reform just passed!

[Professor Danger!]

I'm not the one complaining that my taxes are going to up by an almost insignificant amount, am I?. And then using that logic to support your "it's my money, I should do whatever the fuck I want with it" because a slight tax increase will not affect your consumerism.
Yet you think that you buying an iPod helps your economy (lulz).

I do buy books, I do volunteer. You're over concerned about having less money to buy your useless shit when you will still have plenty of it to buy useless shit, but yet you still whine, because in principle you will lose your extra $200 when you could have used it for whatever it is that you wanted. Instead, you used that $200 to save a human being. I could COMPLETELY understand your reasoning.

My favourite part of this is that you laugh at me for saying that buying shit helps the economy and then say that not buying an iPod or smaller tv apparently saves lives. Riiiight. Hypcrite much?

I'm more whining about the government interference in life. Seriously, taxes go up regardless of who is in office and what they promise. I'm not that fucking stupid. I (and i'm not the only one) do not want a lot of government in my life. And i'm more concerned about the government taking shit over and running it.

When it does come to taxes, the fact that it keeps going up and taxes are added to things is ridiculous. Instead of fixing problems and having better money management, they just take more money from the people. Sugary drinks tax? Under the guise of helping fight obesity. Riiiiiight. That's what they're doing. Why is our income taxed and then everything we buy taxed? Why are they raising certain taxes? Why are they making new ones up. Instead of fixing shit on their level, they just take more thinking it will fix things. It doesn't. Then they take more.

So you're all for indefinite tax increases then, I assume?

Uh, and what does your complain change at all? If you find just whining pleasuring, ok, go ahead.
Being allowed to complain and no one doing nothing about it is the same than not being allowed to complain

Are you serious? So your saying that freedom of speech is pretty much the same as not having freedom of speech?

I don't recall anything in the amendment saying that you only have freedom of speech if you do something about it.

 

[CloudlessDruid]

Are you serious? So your saying that freedom of speech is pretty much the same as not having freedom of speech?

I don't recall anything in the amendment saying that you only have freedom of speech if you do something about it.

Now, please, in pratical senses, (pratical, not moral or ethic), whats the difference between having freedom of speech and dont being able to do nothing about it and dont having freedom of speech?

none.

The more "moral" and "ethic" would be having freedom of speech and capacity to change something, but thats not what happen in many places. As you guys keep showing and telling us, the US seems one of that places

 

[Professor Danger!]

Are you serious? So your saying that freedom of speech is pretty much the same as not having freedom of speech?

I don't recall anything in the amendment saying that you only have freedom of speech if you do something about it.

Now, please, in pratical senses, (pratical, not moral or ethic), whats the difference between having freedom of speech and dont being able to do nothing about it and dont having freedom of speech?

none.

The more "moral" and "ethic" would be having freedom of speech and capacity to change something, but thats not what happen in many places. As you guys keep showing and telling us, the US seems one of that places

Except for the whole not being locked up or executed for saying things the government doesn't like.

Did you forget that?

 

[Sicblades]

My favourite part of this is that you laugh at me for saying that buying shit helps the economy and then say that not buying an iPod or smaller tv apparently saves lives. Riiiight. Hypcrite much?

Nope that's not what I'm saying, way to misinterpret. At first you were complaining about having less money to do whatever you wanted with it. I said that instead of buying an expensive piece of electronics, you could wait another pay period, to raise the extra 20 bucks and still get it. In this case, your slight tax increase would save lives.

I'm more whining about the government interference in life. Seriously, taxes go up regardless of who is in office and what they promise. I'm not that fucking stupid. I (and i'm not the only one) do not want a lot of government in my life. And i'm more concerned about the government taking shit over and running it.

The government would hardly be in your life, it'd just take a little extra from you, and leave you the fuck alone.[/quote]

When it does come to taxes, the fact that it keeps going up and taxes are added to things is ridiculous. Instead of fixing problems and having better money management, they just take more money from the people. Sugary drinks tax? Under the guise of helping fight obesity. Riiiiiight. That's what they're doing. Why is our income taxed and then everything we buy taxed? Why are they raising certain taxes? Why are they making new ones up. Instead of fixing shit on their level, they just take more thinking it will fix things. It doesn't. Then they take more.

So you're all for indefinite tax increases then, I assume?

Nice slippery slope. No one ever agreed to indefinite tax increases. However, if the higher price of cola bothers you, don't fucking buy it. That way, you avoid getting taxed by it.

As for your statement that I bolded. Because any government needs money. I've always held the belief of lesser income tax, higher consumer tax, but in the end, they are going to get your money anyways

 

[Per]

whats the difference between having freedom of speech and dont being able to do nothing about it and dont having freedom of speech?

What definition of "speech" are we going with here?

 

[CloudlessDruid]

Except for the whole not being locked up or executed for saying things the government doesn't like.

Did you forget that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

What definition of "speech" are we going with here?

The most simple possible. Freedom to say what you think. As I said before, in practical senses (I am not saying that not having freedom of speech is better or worse, is good or wrong), the freedom of speech that Professor Danger and others are saying they have is useless. I am just saying that saying something and nobody caring about what you say is as useful as being prohibited to say something)

 

[Per]

The most simple possible. Freedom to say what you think. As I said before, in practical senses (I am not saying that not having freedom of speech is better or worse, is good or wrong), the freedom of speech that Professor Danger and others are saying they have is useless.

That's nonsensical, not to say Orwellian. The practical use of freedom of speech is speaking. Doing things and changing things are practical uses of other things.

 

[CloudlessDruid]

uh, ok, thats just my opinion. I am not saying I am against people have freedom of speech in America. I am just saying that for people who are pretty much complaining the government don't do what they want, they are quite accommodated with their Freedom of Speech and theirs not freedom of changing things.
If you complain that government don't listen to you, but you don't mind don't being listen, how is your argument valid?

 

[Per]

Well, as I believe Sander said, in a representative democracy it's impossible for the government to get popular input on everything, and even more impossible to listen to everyone in the vulgar sense of "listen to what I want and then do it". But that's a completely different issue to whether people have a right to be critical and to voice their displeasure.

The irony is that if people were truly given more freedom to act at the expense of government control, they would have to take their complaints to themselves or each other when they don't like the results. This idea is not very palatable, which is why democracy more often gets interpreted as the right of the majority to inflict their preferences on the minority.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Why is our income taxed and then everything we buy taxed?

Because there are both state and federal taxes and the states (minus a couple) are the ones with sales tax in order to spread the tax burden to tourists.

 

[Professor Danger!]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS...US+/+Top+News)&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

Republicans, who unanimously opposed the bill, have vowed to make repealing it a major issue in congressional elections in November

.

President Barack Obama dared Republicans on Thursday to try to repeal his newly signed healthcare law but warned their effort would backfire as he touted the benefits of the massive overhaul.

Ok, reading this made me think Obama is quite the idiot. I like how he's all cocky now, when republicans can and most likely will do whatever they can do to, at the very least, tie this shit up for a long long time.

Shouldn't Obama be saving this shit until after everything is done, everything is in place, and everything is fixed. Well, he'll be long out of office before that time. I think it's a bit too soon to be so cocky.


--------------------------------------

Also, why this reform will probably not do much in the end:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS...ia_ow=t0:s0:a49:g43:r2:c0.099609:b32203978:z0

Health insurers may turn to steeper premium increases, job cuts and dealmaking to maintain profits in the wake of a landmark U.S. health overhaul that imposes new regulations and costs on the industry.

"These companies can't run at a loss, so while you can eat some margin at the end of the day you have to massively raise prices. Massively," Wright said. "California will be begging for only 39 percent rate increases."

That's how I see this running. Higher taxes and more money still being paid for insurance. And it makes sense, these companies exist to make a profit (obviously). What do you think they're going to do, eat what the government does? No. Raise prices/premiums, etc. and make a profit.

 

[Crni Vuk]

its funny that someone would bring in companies that demand way to much on technology and medications that cost a lot less in Germany and is at least comparable in its outcome. We have almost the same mediations, the same surgeries and at least equaliy as qualified doctors and assistants and yet it costs a lot less to be treaten here.

Of course I know you cant simply compare Germany or Europe with the US directly. To many details work differently. But still I heard to many things from friends in the US that let me wonder. And its not just about medications or health care. Just take the food industry as example which doesnt like the idea to give away informations about their ingredients which is a common standart here and even a law. But why do they not like it ?

It seems lobbyism is killing the US. But thats just my oppinion.

 

[TheGM]

I would now like to quote the Republican Health plan's proposals.


Oh thats right I can't. Because there isn't one worth mentioning. Now there is just this big mess. Republicans still bitter that they wouldn't be able to destroy the country some more after 8 years of failure started to cry foul before anything even happened just out of spite, that then caused the Democrats to go into "Oh yeah well Fuck you" mode and do it alone, and Dems doing anything by themselves is a bad idea.

All the while this has cause the living but far from intelligent mass known as the American Public to become confused.....and from there angered. Which lead to awesome quotes like

I'm Mad as hell but I don't know why!

And so a serious problem was resolved by everybody bitching and taking their respective ball and going home to bitch out the window.

 

[Professor Danger!]

I would now like to quote the Republican Health plan's proposals.


Oh thats right I can't. Because there isn't one worth mentioning. Now there is just this big mess. Republicans still bitter that they wouldn't be able to destroy the country some more after 8 years of failure started to cry foul before anything even happened just out of spite, that then caused the Democrats to go into "Oh yeah well Fuck you" mode and do it alone, and Dems doing anything by themselves is a bad idea.

All the while this has cause the living but far from intelligent mass known as the American Public to become confused.....and from there angered. Which lead to awesome quotes like

I'm Mad as hell but I don't know why!

And so a serious problem was resolved by everybody bitching and taking their respective ball and going home to bitch out the window.

I also doesn't help that the bill/law is 8 billion pages long and pretty complicated.

Is it any wonder why people are confused and angry?

Also, I feel I should mention, with you bringing up "8 years of failure" (1.) Why was Bush re-elected? 2.) People forget that he had a pretty high approval rating for a good while, before he went down hill and started a few years of failure), the democrats are no better. They use the same shit tactics that the republicans do, as well as the same lie-filled rhetoric. Hell, take the majority of Obama's campaign for presidency for a rather good example of this.

 

[TheGM]

Also, I feel I should mention, with you bringing up "8 years of failure" (1.) Why was Bush re-elected? 2.) People forget that he had a pretty high approval rating for a good while, before he went down hill and started a few years of failure), the democrats are no better. They use the same shit tactics that the republicans do, as well as the same lie-filled rhetoric. Hell, take the majority of Obama's campaign for presidency for a rather good example of this.

1: Gay people getting married.

2: Lame duck turned into hero by happenstance of a terrorist attack.

3: WMDs turned into liberation just for the hell of it while we support our troops.

4: never said the democrats were better.

5: Didn't help that the other guy came of as indecisive and picked a putz for a VP.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Iam confused what have gay marriages to do with Bush ?

 

[TheGM]

Iam confused what have gay marriages to do with Bush ?

In 2004 Gay people decided to get married. This of course was the biggest threat America has ever faced, because if Gay people started getting married Kids would then turn gay.

Bush seeing how dangerous the situation was proclaimed that the only way to save America was to re-elect him so he could then amend the constitution to say marriage was between a man and a woman.

So he was re-elected, didn't amend shit, gay people keep getting married and nobody really cares now.

 

[Professor Danger!]

Iam confused what have gay marriages to do with Bush ?

In 2004 Gay people decided to get married. This of course was the biggest threat America has ever faced, because if Gay people started getting married Kids would then turn gay.

Bush seeing how dangerous the situation was proclaimed that the only way to save America was to re-elect him so he could then amend the constitution to say marriage was between a man and a woman.

So he was re-elected, didn't amend shit, gay people keep getting married and nobody really cares now.

I agree with you. I HATE HATE HATE how republicans have to combine religious shit with their politics, even though there's supposed to be a separation of church and state.

Religion should never be mixed with politics. Especially when it's NOT SUPPOSED TO BE.

So this is an example when I lean a bit to the left, I suppose. Let everyone marry, is how I feel. God, what year is it?

And don't get me started about that "don't ask, don't tell" bullshit from the military. Now this puts me into the mood for a little bashing of my country, like earlier in this thread.

 

[.Pixote.]

In most cases if an individual lived away from their country of birth for a number of years, opened up their mind, and looked carefully at their homeland they will often be quite sickened by what they see. Generally the more patriotic a nation is the sicker it is. Individual freedoms need to be balanced with the greater social needs.

America is dying, the debt is astronomical, the economy is crumbling, and 1000’s of abandoned suburbs are in a terrible state of decay (currently they are being wiped off the face of the earth by the bulldozers), the underclass is expanding rapidly, and what brought this on…greed and short sightedness. The American dream was nothing but a pipe dream, and anyone that blindly follows that model will most likely follow in America’s rapid decline, sadly that is most of the countries in the world. But from death comes life – The city of Detroit is too demolish 3000 abandoned buildings in the heart of the city and transform them into agriculture farms, parkland and small communities. America has given the world plenty of marvelous things through the last 100 years or so, but overall the model just doesn’t work and it’s critical that they find one that works for the betterment of all their citizens and not just the top 10%.

(I think it’s important for people to realize that the human race is probably the least successful species of animal that ever existed on the face of planet Earth, here today – gone tomorrow…)

 

[Professor Danger!]

In most cases if an individual lived away from their country of birth for a number of years, opened up their mind, and looked carefully at their homeland they will often be quite sickened by what they see. Generally the more patriotic a nation is the sicker it is. Individual freedoms need to be balanced with the greater social needs.

America is dying, the debt is astronomical, the economy is crumbling, and 1000’s of abandoned suburbs are in a terrible state of decay (currently they are being wiped off the face of the earth by the bulldozers), the underclass is expanding rapidly, and what brought this on…greed and short sightedness. The American dream was nothing but a pipe dream, and anyone that blindly follows that model will most likely follow in America’s rapid decline, sadly that is most of the countries in the world. But from death comes life – The city of Detroit is too demolish 3000 abandoned buildings in the heart of the city and transform them into agriculture farms, parkland and small communities. America has given the world plenty of marvelous things through the last 100 years or so, but overall the model just doesn’t work and it’s critical that they find one that works for the betterment of all their citizens and not just the top 10%.

(I think it’s important for people to realize that the human race is probably the least successful species of animal that ever existed on the face of planet Earth, here today – gone tomorrow…)

I wouldn't got so far as to say that the "American Dream" is a pipe dream. Yes, the average person does not achieve the American Dream. But it wouldn't be a dream if every single citizen achieved it, would it? Plenty of people reach it, others don't. Sort of like very country.

But I won't deny that the country kind of is in trouble. I don't think Obama will be able to save it with his wacky one reform in which the people that NEED health care WON'T get health care, since it's not universal health care and those people will be exempt from REQUIREING health care.