Hello, old friend

[SkuLL]

Yeah.

Obsidian just made Marcus out of Bethesda's shitty engine with about a year of development time.

How did that stop them from making a better model for Marcus? Model/skin is not created using a game's engine AFAIK.

The fact that they've made a unique Marcus face/model is sweet, but doesn't redeem the fact that they haven't done it very well (judging by the one early screenshot provided, to be fair).

 

[Crni Vuk]

me neither. Particularly when you see what some modders can do. And dont tell me "they have the time programmers dont". Many which do high quality mods do it in their free time next to their job. So how comes they can offer textures of high quality professionals cant ? Next one might tell me is that we have to accept bugs by Obsidian cause otherwise it would be "nitpicking".

Console performance, maybe? FO:NV is a cross platform title, remember.

Also, your bickering is childish. Really.

Says the guy who is thinking to be a cat. Really

 

[Mad Max RW]

The bottom line for this thread is...
Make your customers used to eating shit, and they will be happy when you'll bring them a roast chicken tasting strongly of... shit
I'm just talking the visual appearance of one character here, but... just waiting for the actual game to come out so I can generalize it.

And if you're going to remodel the original armor, at least care to do it entirely instead of pasting some patches onto the same old shitty Fallout 3 armor.

I also like how everyone is soooo enthusiastic about one character from the originals making an appearance in NV, and him having some light ressemblance with the original character. It's not great, it's the least you can ask. Why should this be any different than say, Harold appearance in Fallout 3 ? Was it a sign of a return to canon ? A sign of quality ? Not really...

There's always people (even the die-hard NMA regulars) who get swept up by hype and stop seeing things clearly. I said it already, Marcus looks like crap but that's the least of the game's problems. The whole thing looks and sounds like another poorly done slightly longer expansion pack for Fallout 3 with a few pointless bells and whistles thrown on. Oh boy we can hit somebody in the crotch! Super hard mode with thirst! Deserts! So if you loved Fallout 3 but thought it didn't have enough bugs and ctd's, New Vegas is right up your alley.

 

[Crni Vuk]

well letz be fair though. Obsidian has a much better knowledge around how to do some RPG then Bethesda ever will have (with the curent leadership that is). And its not wrong to have some hope to expect a potential Fallout game that is closer to Fallout 1/2 then anything else we might get today. The chance to see a proper sequel are almost zero. And that even if the IP would be in the hands of interplay which fucked up the franchise a long time ago before Bethesda was in charge.

I think no one here really expects a revolution though. We might get a new game but its Fallout 3 in all its glory, VATS, first person combat, probably bugs. And of course the stupid engine we already know from F3 and Oblivion. But I do share the hopes of many when it comes to the dialogues and if they are really good and we get a somewhat well thought out reputation system then it might be a very enjoyable RPG in the end. And if it sells well its the best way to prove Bethesda that great writting AND financial success are a possibility.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

The bottom line for this thread is...
Make your customers used to eating shit, and they will be happy when you'll bring them a roast chicken tasting strongly of... shit
I'm just talking the visual appearance of one character here, but... just waiting for the actual game to come out so I can generalize it.

no. no this is not what's happening. what's happening is this:

FALLOUT IS FUCKING DEAD.

sorry, dudes. it is. it's dead. and those of us who've come to accept this fact yet still can't let go (that's me!) tend to get pretty excited when we say "hey, with a few shots of bourbon and a joint this rendering of Marcus coupled with some dialogue from ol' MCA over the'ah might be enough for a few lulz and a distraction from my lady being out of town tonight."

truly....i feel sorry for any of you expecting more from "video games".

 

[Deimos]

And if it sells well its the best way to prove Bethesda that great writting AND financial success are a possibility.

Agree with that.
Obsidian vs. Oblivion.

Bethesda engine is becoming shitty pastgen, like Fallout's one.
Maybe Fallout 4 can be truly called "New Generation Fallout"...

 

[alec]

]what's wrong is considering your source. it's like you all walked into a McDonalds and are surprised to find that you ended up with a bag full of fast food. like, it's not news that Obsidian had a limited time to work with a shitty engine and shitty existing models. i was already prepared to stomach all that garbage for the sake of a good story and a better overall RPG experience. the fact they actually did what they did with Marcus, way i see it, is akin to ordering McDonalds, paying money, getting a bag of fast food and the wrong change back...in my favor.

No, what's wrong here is that some of us are desperately looking for a regular restaurant in town and there ain't one left 'cause it's all McDonalds now, all of it. And once you start to complain about that, you get the happy go lucky McDonalds afficionados in your face, doing their routine of pulling you in and telling you to quit your whining, it's McDonalds, it's supposed to be dry as cardboard and fat as fuck at the same time, just eat it already, you need your goddamn vitamins, boy.

Reminds me of this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkwQ6EjLdMQ[/youtube]

And I'll just repeat that line: "Can anybody tell me what's wrong with this picture? Anybody? Anybody at all?"

I'll tell you myself then: you're falling for some eyecandy that - and let's be perfectly honest about this - doesn't even look very tasty. You're cheering for a wet, sloppy hamburger BUT at least they got the slice of tomato right.

Adding Marcus to the game is cheap, in the same way that adding Harold to FO3 was a cheap move. And it's a dangerous move - it's pretty much bound to create inconsistencies in the Fallout lore.

Adding Marcus to the game is also a sad move. Is this really the best way to have older gamers think: "Wow, this game reminds me of Fallout!"? I'm way more inclined to believe that at a certain point the developers all exclaimed: "Wow, this doesn't feel like Fallout anymore!" and then some smartass said: "No problem, we'll add an old character and that'll do the trick just nicely."
To me, shit like this feels like one of those old Special Encounters the games could have done without. It's like meeting Vault Boy in Tactics: cute, but so fucking what?

And how does adding <strike>Shrek</strike> Marcus take away the fact that this will still be a FPS? How does it help to forget about the stupid location with the stupid casinos and the general New Reno atmosphere of fail written all over it?

As it is, I think both of us are looking at the same desolate picture: we see a desert, empty but for a single dandelion. Most of you guys are just going: "Woohoo! A dandelion!". And that's just great, have fun, seriously. But what I would like to know is where all the other fucking dandelions went. And when they're coming back, if ever.

 

[Tagaziel]

Christ, alec, you're an idiot. Why is adding Marcus going to cause inconsistencies? He journeyed east (as per his Fallout 2 ending) and ended up in the New Vegas area.

Your beickering makes you sound like a pseudoartistic manchild with too much time on his hands.

Christ, people, grow the fuck up. I could understand hostility towards Fallout 3. I cannot understand the hostility towards New Vegas, which is about the best thing that can happen to us, short of a time/space continuum collapse and history being altered so that Van Buren was published and Bethesda collapsed after Morrowind.

 

[alec]

Christ, alec, you're an idiot.

That's uncalled for, I reckon. I did not insult you at any point whatsoever. I assume lack of respect for regulars is functional to your defence of the new Fallout products, but do tell me how.

]Why is adding Marcus going to cause inconsistencies? He journeyed east (as per his Fallout 2 ending) and ended up in the New Vegas area.

Well, for one thing: he's lready looking younger than he did in Fallout 2. That's a huge inconsistency so far.

Your beickering makes you sound like a pseudoartistic manchild with too much time on his hands.

I beg to ask you again: is this necessary? The insults take away much of the strength of your post. In fact: if you leave out the insults, there isn't much of a post left, is there?

Christ, people, grow the fuck up.

I'm older than you. Older. I don't mean to brag about that because youth is a beautiful thing, but since you seem to think that growing up (i.e. becoming older) somehow seems to matter in judging things correctly, I thought I should point out to you that, yes, I am fact a lot older than you.

I could understand hostility towards Fallout 3. I cannot understand the hostility towards New Vegas, which is about the best thing that can happen to us, short of a time/space continuum collapse and history being altered so that Van Buren was published and Bethesda collapsed after Morrowind.

Maybe you're missing the point: it's going to be even more of a FPS than the previous installment. I don't see how adding 65,000,000,000 variations of dialogue lines and - o jolly! - good ol' Marcus is all of a sudden going to make an RPG of it.

I'm also reporting your post because you lack manners.

 

[SkuLL]

Hate to say it () but I'm with alec here. I don't see it as 'whining' or 'bashing FNV', I see it as 'not being bought by a crappy screenshot'. And the screenshot is crappy, let's face it. Once you get past the initial joy of 'OH MY GOD! MY FAVOURITE MARCUS IS BACK!', you'll realise he's not being portrayed very well at all.

 

[Lexx]

The only thing that makes the screen look crappy as it is now, is the lack of good lightning, which the engine can't handle.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Why is adding Marcus going to cause inconsistencies?

Well give it time. We have only seen his face so far. Maybe the rest of him has become a tree. >_>

The only thing that makes the screen look crappy as it is now, is the lack of good lightning, which the engine can't handle.

well its more that no one added this feature to the engine. There is only so much limitation with the engine as how much time you have to work with it. Which is understandable.

But there have been a few people that managed to use the Duke3D engine and well it looked quite awesome after they worked with it ... but hell I can tremember the name of the project anymore. But they worked a few years on it. I think they even had some form of dynamic lighting or shadows no clue.

Hence why I hoped even with so few time on their hand Obsidian would have done a bit more to change the Oblivion/Fallout 3 engine ... I dont expect a wonder. But the animations, some textures here and there. Nothing super fancy. They should have concentrated on animations though. I slowly get the idea that only very few game companies seem to have skilled programmers regarding animation which is somewhat understandable. I good friend I know is working as freelancer in 3D animations and while he love the idea to work with games he is doing only animations for medical purpose. Better payment as how he said. Its very similar with skilled programmers. The usual softare buisness is in general better around payment and work compared to the gaming buisness. Particularly since you cant survive long with buged software ... which is different with games. No one is gone sue you for a glitch in his game. But you can bet someone will freak out when he had to stop the production of his goods for a day cause the program he got has a bug.

 

[Arr0nax]

well letz be fair though. Obsidian has a much better knowledge around how to do some RPG then Bethesda ever will have

Yeah like NWN2 or KOTOR2 ! /sarcasm
I don't place such games higher as, say, Morrowind, on my list of slightly playable RPGs...

The only thing that makes the screen look crappy as it is now, is the lack of good lightning, which the engine can't handle.

No it isn't... The texturing of the skin is shitty, the modelling of the face still seems more like an orc than a super-mutant, and the body and body armor are the same as in Fallout 3.
These are not engine defects...

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

pretty long couple of posts for a dude who can't be arsed to care about 3D games, alec.

 

[Crni Vuk]

well letz be fair though. Obsidian has a much better knowledge around how to do some RPG then Bethesda ever will have

Yeah like NWN2 or KOTOR2 ! /sarcasm
I don't place such games higher as, say, Morrowind, on my list of slightly playable RPGs...

I havnt played NWN2 so I cant coment on that. But I had more fun with Kotor2 then I ever had with Oblivion. Dialogues and characters have been done a lot better.

Morrowind was a nice game for a sandbox world. But that was it. It had no dialogues just wiki links but the world was very well done. I am not saying Obsidian is the best RPG developer around. But one has to aknowledge where they have skill. And story and writting is usualy a good thing. Even compared to Bioware as what Bioware is doing is using their old old old ...(really old) formula and just change the setting. Hence why everything they do feels like a rip of from Kotor 1 or any similar game. Its not important if Stan is Called Canderous the Mandalorian as both are almost the same. hence why I was so bored by Dragon ages characters. Lots of dialogue. But in the end they actualy say nothing "new". If you know what I mean.

Now Obsidian is at least TRYING to do new things that dont feel the same. As Alpha Protocol is going in a different direction compared to Kotor 2 for example. This ads to diversity. And shows that they are creative.

What Obsidian has to learn though is I am not sure product management ? Marketing strategies ? Most particularly how to do bug free (or at least almost bugfree) games, no game will ever be completely without bugs but you know what I mean.

 

[Lexx]

No it isn't... The texturing of the skin is shitty, the modelling of the face still seems more like an orc than a super-mutant, and the body and body armor are the same as in Fallout 3.
These are not engine defects...

Sorry, but I can't agree on that orc face thingy. First, because we just know like three different super mutant faces, which all also look nearly the same, due to limitations from back in the days (not enough time or resources to make more unique looking ones, etc) and second, because I hardly believe that every super mutant would look the same and that there will be no kinds of variations. (And third because he doesn't look like a orc to me.)

The orc face thingy was valid in Fallout 3, but not here.

And about the body and armor: It's cleary visible, that at least the standing idle animation was changed to more Fallout 1 and 2-esque mutants and I can't understand how one can nagg about the armor. Yes, I agree that I would more like it to look like Fallout's leather armor, but then again, what the fuck. You can't make every mutant wear the same clothes, especially with such a big time span in between.

In the original games, armors didn't matter much, as you couldn't see much details anyway. On the new vegas screens so far, we saw mutants with different armors already, which is a good thing. If one expects 1000 different looking mutants... eh. Get real.

 

[Sander]

No it isn't... The texturing of the skin is shitty, the modelling of the face still seems more like an orc than a super-mutant, and the body and body armor are the same as in Fallout 3.
These are not engine defects...

It's a lot better than it was in Fallout 3. The hunch you saw in the original games is much more pronounced, the proportions of the face are a lot more like the original games (much larger chin/jaw), and the skin colour is better. No, it isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than it was in Fallout 3. And in my eyes, any improvement over Fallout 3 is a good thing. This doesn't mean the game will be a great Fallout game, but I don't think we'll ever see that again.

 

[Per]

You ask for steak, I bring you something that's either fish drenched in steak sauce or steak drenched in fish sauce, you can't really tell. "What the hell," you say and lean closer to look, but I stab you in the eye with a fork and run into the kitchen.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

You ask for steak, I bring you something that's either fish drenched in steak sauce or steak drenched in fish sauce, you can't really tell. "What the hell," you say and lean closer to look, but I stab you in the eye with a fork and run into the kitchen.

You ask for steak, I bring you fish. You say that you think steak is better than fish. I say that fish is much more popular than steak so obviously it's better. You say that no matter how good the fish is it can't be better at being steak than the actual steak we used to serve. I say that's just your perception and you're entitled to it but you should accept that fish is the future and that's good. You begin to say something but I stab you in the eye with a fork and run into the kitchen.

 

[Tagaziel]

That's uncalled for, I reckon. I did not insult you at any point whatsoever. I assume lack of respect for regulars is functional to your defence of the new Fallout products, but do tell me how.

I beg to ask you again: is this necessary? The insults take away much of the strength of your post. In fact: if you leave out the insults, there isn't much of a post left, is there?

I'm older than you. Older. I don't mean to brag about that because youth is a beautiful thing, but since you seem to think that growing up (i.e. becoming older) somehow seems to matter in judging things correctly, I thought I should point out to you that, yes, I am fact a lot older than you.

I apologize alec, I like and respect you, but when the first thing I see in the morning is three pages of whining, I went slightly mad and took out my frustration on the last poster... namely you.

Frustration is key to understanding why I posted what I posted. I spent a good deal of time arguing in NMA's favour across several forums and proving that our users aren't the glittering gems of hatred we are made out to be, only to see the very users I love and respect effortlessly prove that they are, in fact, glittering gems of hatred.

It's kind of like this: you dedicate time and effort to explain to others that your brother isn't fucking goats in his free time, only to visit him and see a poor goat being raped by him on the floor of his living room.

Bottom line, I care deeply about every forum regular here. If I didn't care, I'd just shrug my arms and let everyone bicker. I don't and sometimes the frustration speaks out.

So I apologize to everyone I hurt with the above post.

[size=x-small]Although I still think you should grow up, people [/size]

Well, for one thing: he's lready looking younger than he did in Fallout 2. That's a huge inconsistency so far.

It's a texture thing. More polygons = less detailed textures.

Maybe you're missing the point: it's going to be even more of a FPS than the previous installment. I don't see how adding 65,000,000,000 variations of dialogue lines and - o jolly! - good ol' Marcus is all of a sudden going to make an RPG of it.

I just want NMA to give this game and Obsidian a chance, instead of see them whine and bash them over the most minute of details.

Obsidian is a legitimate Fallout developer and has proven that they can create good, expansive RPGs with proper c&c.