TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
hey, i'm with ya Tagz. you wanna go get a steak flavored fish with me for dinner?
Hello, old friend
- Thread starter Brother None
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This ghoul has seen it all
Tagaziel said:
Obviously the response at NMA wouldn't have made everyone happy either way. If people nitpick Obsidian like they've nitpicked Bethesda, there'll be people sitting around going, "Omg someone's giving them a game closer to what they want and they're STILL hating, they're THAT HATEFUL", and if they don't, the same people will sit around going, "Omg they was all hating on Bethesda and now that Obsidian is on the case they're all
I say if people want to get their kicks nitpicking anything, let them. We have no forum rule to spare the feelings of developers. If Bethesda is a valid target for bashing, so is Obsidian.
What are you saying? That the presence of more polygons somehow stops the artists from being able to create aged characters?Tagaziel said:
I don't think it's all whining here. The thread effectively says "Marcus will be back, here's a screenshot". Now you could have either 8 pages of people going "Yay! Can't wait!" or 8 pages of people effectively deconstructing the image given, having discussions and providing honest opinions an said image." No one's saying "Obsidian are a bunch of faggots, not doing any work FFS", but a few people are saying "Hang on, that doesn't look that great, in fact it could look better." If you wanna see criticism as hatred then that's your problem.
It's also a time when monsters are supposed to look beautiful because everything in this world is beautiful, even the bad, sick and vile parts.
It's just... a beautiful wonderful world this world, filled with beautiful people. It's home. The streets are broken up, there's some bloodspatter on your broken sunglasses, there's rust on just about everything, but the lights are still a-shining, no doubt because some lesser artist thought it would create a nice contrast. It's a shiny world this, bling bling a-plenty and when we're feeling hot and dirrrrrrrrty, we can cool off under the fountain, shimmy-shaking to the beats of kerazy dj sets, our eyes blinded by the indestructible lightbulb Mk. II and a coat of paint that will last a billion years.
I can imagine a situation where I would buy this utopia, but it involves copious amounts of drugs. So yeah, NO.
It's just... a beautiful wonderful world this world, filled with beautiful people. It's home. The streets are broken up, there's some bloodspatter on your broken sunglasses, there's rust on just about everything, but the lights are still a-shining, no doubt because some lesser artist thought it would create a nice contrast. It's a shiny world this, bling bling a-plenty and when we're feeling hot and dirrrrrrrrty, we can cool off under the fountain, shimmy-shaking to the beats of kerazy dj sets, our eyes blinded by the indestructible lightbulb Mk. II and a coat of paint that will last a billion years.
I can imagine a situation where I would buy this utopia, but it involves copious amounts of drugs. So yeah, NO.
Ravager69 said:
Bacause of this thing called the lowest common denominator
the xboks360
Will not run a huge game like fallout NV with all textures having normal/bump maps.
Its a hardware horsepower issue, that if this is the marcus we end up with, thank the 360.
SkuLL said:
alec said:
I'd say that the Marcus from Fallout 2 is diffrent due to the method of rendering, not because he was suppose to be ugly and Obsidian is following the beautiful people trend. I guess that now since his model is all 3d in-game, his proportions need to be a bit more human and less cartoonish.
Sight disability. You may have it. Check with your doctor as soon as possible.
Whatever the engine, whatever the rendering method, you could do a low-poly version of Marcus original face with the adequate color and render it in Gamebryo engine.
You don't need next-gen lighting or textures to achieve that, you just need an basic engine that renders a polygon with the correct color.
It wouldn't look as the original, but it surely would look similar. With the actual version, we're not talking similarity, we're talking "vaguely reminding someone familiar". The modelling is wrong, and the color/texture is wrong. You have to be sight impaired not to see it....
Whatever the engine, whatever the rendering method, you could do a low-poly version of Marcus original face with the adequate color and render it in Gamebryo engine.
You don't need next-gen lighting or textures to achieve that, you just need an basic engine that renders a polygon with the correct color.
It wouldn't look as the original, but it surely would look similar. With the actual version, we're not talking similarity, we're talking "vaguely reminding someone familiar". The modelling is wrong, and the color/texture is wrong. You have to be sight impaired not to see it....
They also have to take into account the way other Mutants look - if Marcus looks vastly different that would make little sense.
Arr0nax said:
You do realize the Marcus in Fallout 2 is rendered at an odd angle, right? Compared with Harry and Lou it seems as if he was looking upwards and talking to you.
MKSaibot
It Wandered In From the Wastes
mobucks said:
That is exactly right along with . . .
Fallout 3 Engine
There is only so much you can do with it, but you can still load it up with all the textures you want & etc making Marcus look easily better then what there showing us. Thing is though again as you said, Fallout New Vegas is a console game . . .
If Fallout New Vegas was designed just for PC the game would be much better & easier for the developer's to make & polish the game.
POS 360
On another note
I was really happy when I checked out all the updates today on NMA, Marcus doesn't look terrible or anything & I am reeeaal haaappy he's in the game.
though we still have to wait and see what kind of value he has in the game. If hes a well written character thats great. If his role will be more like Harolds in F3 ... not so much ( I still cant believe how Bethesda fucked up Harold so much ... but yeah we are talking about Obsidian here so I doubt the same thing will happen)
MKSaibot
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Michael Dorn is voicing Marcus again so that alone gives me a lot of hope.
You know if he isn't a companion on release they will make a DLC just for him with sidequest etc I would bet. I wouldn't mind just having a mod that makes him a companion, but id be nice if he was a companion with sidequest etc.
You know if he isn't a companion on release they will make a DLC just for him with sidequest etc I would bet. I wouldn't mind just having a mod that makes him a companion, but id be nice if he was a companion with sidequest etc.
Look, there's very few games with the technical abilities to render a character's face with as much detail as the set of 'talking heads' from F1/F2. They're almost cinematics.
And Beth's GECK... well... it's a bit dated. So don't whine that an in-game fully 3D character has less detail than a scripted animation. The former have set polycount limits. Kthx.
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
I saw a few like that and it seemed to get worse after people started throwing around the "Aren't you ever happy?" shit. There are reasonable and ridiculous posts on both sides here but I'm with Griz some of the comments are NMA stereotypes. That said, some of the defenses are the same shit we saw with Fallout 3.SkuLL said:
By the way, I think that better textures go much further to improving how a game looks than more polygons do at this point. Saying that consoles are the major restrictor is a bit of a cop-out if you ask me, there are certainly games for consoles that look better, the bigger issue is optimization (which is more Beth's fault than Obsidian's).
Aliens vs. Predator would disagree with you. That said, I have no clue how it looks on console but the point is that it can be done with top of the line computers these days. Still, there are two points here, the first is that the geometry of his head is off and the second is that the texture isn't wrinkly enough (look at his brow and chin, there are wrinkles, they just don't cover his face). It doesn't need to be as detailed as before, it'd just be nice if it were a little closer (the philtrum really sticks out).Wooz said:
I think that Bethesda was closer on Harold's facial appearance (wrong eye color seems to be the main problem) than Obsidian is with Marcus but let's not forget that this may not be the final version. I don't think that we're going to see any major model changes but a new texture isn't out of the question. Keep in mind that Obsidian has been releasing a lot of screenshots with non-finalized elements in them.
UncannyGarlic said:
I can't argue with all of this, but consoles are a major limiting factor. You can optimize to your hearts content but in the end the consoles lack the power to process and run high res textures.
Beth could help with this, but there's still limitations.
I dont know how people can talk about limitations when already in MGS2 faces looked a lot better then even in Oblivion. Or fallout 3 for that matter. As said keep in mind that the engine and textures are not new but the geometry and animations are much more convincing which is the key point here.
Some very inteligent person (Gizmo where art you ?) said that its not the tools that make the artist but the artist which makes the tools. And it somehow fits. I am not complaining even when it seems so. I am just saying that it all depends how much effort you put in to things. It can go so far that people achieve with the most simple programms almost photorealistic images. Is it wrong to demand from a company which seems to have experience a bit more then the average ? Obsidian has been around for long enough. And its not like anyone is asking for a miracle or something.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVXx58j4B5A&feature=related[/youtube]
Some very inteligent person (Gizmo where art you ?) said that its not the tools that make the artist but the artist which makes the tools. And it somehow fits. I am not complaining even when it seems so. I am just saying that it all depends how much effort you put in to things. It can go so far that people achieve with the most simple programms almost photorealistic images. Is it wrong to demand from a company which seems to have experience a bit more then the average ? Obsidian has been around for long enough. And its not like anyone is asking for a miracle or something.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVXx58j4B5A&feature=related[/youtube]