Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
Why don't we ever get more people like @CT Phipps? Sure I pretty much disagree with him on nearly everything, but he's a stand up guy. Instead we keep getting Someguy knockoffs.
How is Caesar's army not a joke?
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Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I remember when i was obliterated by the first group of assassins Legion sent to kill me and when NCR sent a group of people to kill me they were obliterated instead. And during both i had the same gear and level.
Most of the time, like 90% of the time, a group of Legion grunts destroys a group of NCR troops.
If the Legion is supposed to be a joke, they sure are a really painful joke.
Most of the time, like 90% of the time, a group of Legion grunts destroys a group of NCR troops.
If the Legion is supposed to be a joke, they sure are a really painful joke.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Ah, thank you for saying so.
Re: Caesar's Army
I think it's best to think of Caesar's Army as operating literally by the game rules. In other words, that we're living in a reality where a guy with a heavy Melee skill can absorb a number of bullets if he's sufficiently high level and stab people. Caesar's Legion is an embodiment of misogyny, low-tech, slavery, and other concepts designed around the idea of being a retrograde civilization. It doesn't actually make that much sense in terms of being a threat to something like the New California Republic. But by "Fallout" rules, it makes perfect sense.
The alternative is that Caesar's Legion is probably a lot better armed in "lore." Caesar doesn't seem to have any problem with technology when it's used as weapons after all. He's willing to use two dirty-bombs against NCR and plenty of his soldiers do have guns. It's just they're probably either scavenged or manufactured by the merchants who operate in his kingdom.
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CerberusGate
I should save my game in a whole new slot
Those are the common types of trolls on the Net after all. Few of them are actually upstanding or interpret Internet anonymity to allow them complete freedom to be troglodytes.
Einhanderc7
Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection
I enjoyed the Legion in more of a sense of "hey here be bad guyz, go get em'" I agree with CT Phipps that the legion does work with Fallout rules, and I also concede that the entire idea of the Legion is, in a realistic sense, pretty dumb.
What I can't seem to understand was the need for either the NCR or Caesar's Legion in the Mojave. Consider this for a moment, in the previous Fallout games (excluding FO3 of course) there were no large combat engagements. Conflict based on factions was very limited and manpower was just as limited.
For example some faction oriented conflicts in FO1 and FO2:
Master's army (Unity) vs. the Wasteland, Vaults, BOS, and caravans
Shady Sands vs. Khans
Navarro Enclave vs. Wasteland, BOS
New Reno Family skirmishes
Modoc vs. the weird cave people
All in game skirmishes are small, relied heavily on the player, and their party. Granted I understand the limitations of the engine could restrict large battles, but there is a pattern here.
Flash forward to FNV and suddenly we have war on a bit of a more grand scale. Personally I think with the time the developers were given they did a fine job. However this did break away from the previously established pattern. I think this was a case of "the did it in FO3, so I guess we have to" kind of mentality.
The point I'm trying to make is that the small engagements we experienced in FO1 and FO2 allowed us to assume some very real and harsh realities about the world that Fallout took place in. A world nearly devoid of natural resources, limited in human life, and mired in the confusing lies told ages ago.
While I do expect factions and government to develop over time, we also have to assume that there is a reasonable amount of attrition involved. Plus if you consider the environment there isn't exactly a lot of incentive to go wandering around the wastes with creatures like Deathclaws or Cazadores mulling about.
What I could believe is a couple strong factions holed up in well defended areas fending off the creatures of the wasteland and roaming bands of raiders. I could also believe in a reasonable degree of expansion but, considering how unforgiving the world is that expansion would come slowly at some very heavy costs.
The Mojave is a dangerous place, and in game I would often encounter both the NCR or Legion being decimated by the local fauna. While I can concede that this is simple a case of as of yet untamed land. I seriously doubt both NCR and Legion land are devoid of such creatures and hostile environments.
What I can't seem to understand was the need for either the NCR or Caesar's Legion in the Mojave. Consider this for a moment, in the previous Fallout games (excluding FO3 of course) there were no large combat engagements. Conflict based on factions was very limited and manpower was just as limited.
For example some faction oriented conflicts in FO1 and FO2:
Master's army (Unity) vs. the Wasteland, Vaults, BOS, and caravans
Shady Sands vs. Khans
Navarro Enclave vs. Wasteland, BOS
New Reno Family skirmishes
Modoc vs. the weird cave people
All in game skirmishes are small, relied heavily on the player, and their party. Granted I understand the limitations of the engine could restrict large battles, but there is a pattern here.
Flash forward to FNV and suddenly we have war on a bit of a more grand scale. Personally I think with the time the developers were given they did a fine job. However this did break away from the previously established pattern. I think this was a case of "the did it in FO3, so I guess we have to" kind of mentality.
The point I'm trying to make is that the small engagements we experienced in FO1 and FO2 allowed us to assume some very real and harsh realities about the world that Fallout took place in. A world nearly devoid of natural resources, limited in human life, and mired in the confusing lies told ages ago.
While I do expect factions and government to develop over time, we also have to assume that there is a reasonable amount of attrition involved. Plus if you consider the environment there isn't exactly a lot of incentive to go wandering around the wastes with creatures like Deathclaws or Cazadores mulling about.
What I could believe is a couple strong factions holed up in well defended areas fending off the creatures of the wasteland and roaming bands of raiders. I could also believe in a reasonable degree of expansion but, considering how unforgiving the world is that expansion would come slowly at some very heavy costs.
The Mojave is a dangerous place, and in game I would often encounter both the NCR or Legion being decimated by the local fauna. While I can concede that this is simple a case of as of yet untamed land. I seriously doubt both NCR and Legion land are devoid of such creatures and hostile environments.
Cobra Commander
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Sure.....in a way.
The medical methods are precarious, but they have; do not ask me how; a solid supply of stealth boy (you can see that in the quest "Caesar's Hire"), they can coinage their own currency, the upper echelon uses advanced weapons and at least two of them are shown with engineering knowledge (Lucius and that spy in Hover Damn)
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Eh, Caesar himself is willing to use tech but seems very clear he doesn't actually think that much of technology. He's rebuilding the world to a Roman-level til either the radiation goes away or as a permanent shift from scavenging from Pre-War technology. It's not an axiomatically bad idea but it's a very very extreme solution.
For all of FO3's faults, the Brotherhood of Steel actually was facing groups which were entirely capable of fighting them on an even footing. For all their Power Armor, they were fighting Super Mutants and the Enclave who have the same technology level (biologically equivalent in the SM's case) as they possess. The one time we hear of them fighting Raiders in lore, they utterly smashed the entire city of them with few casualties. Hell, one of their believed deaths was just Ashur being knocked out.
This actually is one of the more controversial questions of the BoS vs. NCR as it's really debatable if numbers actually could make it possible for the latter to defeat the former. If ten guys or a hundred guys attack a tank, the results are going to be the same. It's not about numbers but the weapons capable of hurting the BOS and being able to survive being blasted by them.
I am going to say NCR and CL both represent what will happen when regions are "tamed" and the majority of wandering monsters and Raiders are killed--life will flourish as will government.
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Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
IIRC Legion didn't actively nuke Searchlight, they just sent in Frumentarii to spy on the NCR and release nuclear waste.
The Mojave is ikely far more sparsely populated than we see. There are monsters everywhere because it's open world, and that's a natural consequence of these types of game.
If it were how it actually is in lore, we would probably see Deathclaws and Cazadores sticking to certain territories, and people staying the hell away from them.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
A dirty bomb is not a nuke, Jorge.
Caesar's Hire involves you picking up equipment the Frumentari collect that is not allowed into Legion Territory, they don't have a steady supply of Stealthboys as much as they just scavenge and steal from other outposts to weaken them.
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CerberusGate
I should save my game in a whole new slot
At least in game, NV's Deathclaws don't roam as much than in 3. They seem to be focused on sticking to specific areas of the map.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
Do you see Donald Trump in body armour and weilding a minigun?
Lanius is like eight feet tall and can wrestle deathclaws, he doesn't NEED a gun.
Vulpes is a spy, he doesn't run into enemy batallions, he sneaks around and attacks people who at best have handguns.
He's also rather tanky and has ESCORTS.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Lanius makes no sense in the context of being a soldier on the battlefield running to the front lines and stabbing people outside of Fallout rules.
But, again, CL acts exactly like they live in a world where you can dress up as Grognak the Barbarian and hack people with a sword.
Mind you, in Fallout 2, I was an tribal porn star boxing star with 300% in punching people.
But, again, CL acts exactly like they live in a world where you can dress up as Grognak the Barbarian and hack people with a sword.
Mind you, in Fallout 2, I was an tribal porn star boxing star with 300% in punching people.
Actually, ammo/fuel/food and water/etc runs out. If you get swarmed by soldiers and run out of ammo/fuel, even a tank won't be able to do anything.
That is the advantage of numbers, you just keep going and pushing without letting the enemy rest or resupply and then overwhelm it or starve them.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
Yes, yes he seriously does.
He's not a man, he's a man shaped monster armoured against rifle rounds, capable of speeds of a vehicle, and weilding a weapon you could biscect someone with.
Fallout humans are wanky, the Burned Man kinda proves this.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
As soldiers of the Soviet Army said in regard to the legend about sending out two soldiers with one rifle, "No, the object is to keep the enemy from killing more of you so you can win."
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
That's a myth, every soldier on the front lines had SOME weapon.
Which reinforces what I said. You keep enemies from killing more of you, and that is achieved by making the enemy use up their resources. So keep throwing numbers at them and they will drain their resources, and it doesn't mean throw numbers as in keep them being killed, just rotate your troops and make sure you evacuate all the wonded ones and replace them immediately.
No resources, no killing for the enemy except killing themselves.
You keep a couple NCR platoons shooting at BoS and BoS shooting back and you will see who runs out of ammo first. Also with numbers you can cycle the platoons so the ones that are replaced can get rest and resuplied. While BoS has a limited amount of numbers, so they can't rest unless they reduce their active number even more and then they can't defend as well because they will not have enough numbers for a good defense.
Even 5 guys with Power Armor and laser/plasma weapons can't properly fight against 15-20 with explosives and sniper rifles for example, specially if those 15 also contain special forces (rangers).
Numbers even help with evacuating and replacing wounded or lost soldiers.
And even in the BoS a good percentage of their members are not fighters or soldiers, they are scribes and scientists. Which makes the BoS be even easier to deal with when you have a very large armed forces.
I am too tired to make any sense today, so I will just stop now before I keep going in circles
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Cobra Commander
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
It's been a long time since I last played, what were the numbers of the helios one battle? 20 NCR soldiers for every 1 member of the Brotherhood?
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
IIRC that was the case.
Makes sense, T51b doesn't make you invincible, and NCR has access to rocket launchers, grenades, anti materiel rifles, etc.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Yes, exactly. It'd be stupid and help the Nazis.