I Need Your Help, Personally, Quickly, and Desperately

[aboniks]

...I...guess with my Bachelor's Degree I would be an Officer...

It doesn't actually work that way. You could be career enlisted rather than commissioned, with a double doctorate in particle physics and sheep shearing. The degree will make it easier to get into OCS after basic training though.

Talk to a recruiter (or Ben, apparently) if you're interested in the specifics on how that works.

As stated previously, recruiters are generally full of shit, so do your own research on anything they tell you. Even the honest ones don't get paid to engage in full disclosure and honest advertizing, only to put warm bodies into basic training cycles.

 

[Courier]

I...guess with my Bachelor's Degree I would be an Officer

I knew people with PhD's in the military who were mechanics. A bachelor's degree is next to worthless, especially considering that the military will pay for anyone to get one.

 

[JohnnyEgo]

Based solely on my observation of your posts in this thread, you would be a recruiter's wet dream and a drill instructor's worst nightmare, for much the same reasons. My sense of you is of a naive, idealistic dreamer in dire need of both direction and maturity.

There is a place for people like you in the Navy. It's the Nuclear Power pipeline. It takes in scores of people with your characteristics. Then, 2/3rds of you drop or fail out for being unwilling or incapable of handling the rigors of training. Amidst the piles of human wreckage, those who survive the process make relatively decent money and get promoted fast.

A recruiter gets several perks for chanelling eligible train wrecks into the pipeline. However, you are highly unlikely to make it through. I came out of this world, and was miserable for two solid years until I made it through the pipeline and into the fleet.

I think I agree with the others that counselling may be a better option than enlisting. Also, idealism quickly vanishes in the face of long hours of boredom that are the reality of modern warfare.

 

[TheWesDude]

you cannot trust everything or much of what a recruiter says.

I keep hearing this from various places. Would you have to bargain with them to get something specific like a 4 year tour instead of 8?

again, your MOS will determine the minimum enlistment.

plus, depending on what MOS you go into, if they have a lot of them even if they make you sign an 8 year term, they may offer early retirement at like 5 or 6.

look at the MOS, that will answer this question.

if you want to get into computers or technology or communications... those are very popular. no matter what anyone tells you it is very hard to change your MOS into them. even if they make you wait for a few months before you actually "join" and its a MOS you want, wait. do not plan on changing later. expect to not be able to.

 

[aboniks]

...no matter what anyone tells you it is very hard to change your MOS into them. even if they make you wait for a few months before you actually "join" and its a MOS you want, wait. do not plan on changing later. expect to not be able to.

^ This. Don't be afraid to walk away from the table at any point (before you sign the dotted line and take the oath), if they can't put the MOS you want in your contract. You can always go back later when a slot opens up. They need qualified people more than qualified people need them. If you can't qualify for for the job you want though, that's going to require some hard thinking on your part.

On the time question, you've got two terms to consider...

You may be able to sign up for a 4 year enlistment, but when that's done you'll still be obligated for another 4 years on inactive ready reserve status. I don't know how IRR status works if you have a longer initial term due to the MOS you get into.

Also, if you can't hack it in your MOS training, they'll reassign you wherever they need warm bodies, and it probably won't be what you'd pick for yourself. You might get a very short list of options for reassignment, but they'll probably be unattractive. Just remember that when the recruiter tells you he can 'guarantee' that you'll get a specific job, it depends on your actions in training as to whether you'll have that job. They only guarantee you'll go to a specific training school, not that you'll complete that training.

Another note: 'retirement' at the 5-6 year mark isn't anything like retirement at 20 years. You not really retiring per se, (ie. no pension, slim benefits) it's more like quitting a civilian position.

 

[TorontoReign]

I have a little more to add I suppose. Everything that has been mentioned on the military has been very accurate. Walking away if you initially get stuck with poor MOS choices is the best thing you could do. I want to be perfectly honest though VD. Based upon the things you have said, I wouldn't run off and join the military. You have some major issues to solve, and the military tends to complicate any issues you have. Don't make any major life choices based upon what I or anyone else has said. Trust me. Forums aren't the best place for advice like this. I ran off suddenly to join the military, and it DRASTICALLY changed my life in many ways. I don't know if that is what you need.

I realize that is contradictory....

Nudge, nudge.

Wink, wink.

At any rate good luck.

 

[Sander]

I appreciate the concern, but I don't see the need for it and who's to say if I saw a psychologist on a whim they wouldn't diagnose me with something just to sell me prescribed drugs or sign me up for future visits? Not only wasting my money, but accidentally invalidating the military option when it could be there.

That's not how therapists work. For one, you have no obligation to actually take any medication or follow any other treatment a therapist would prescribe. If they want you to do something you don't want to do, you can just say 'no'. Similarly, going through a therapist does not mark you as crazy or as having dangerous psychological issues, and therapist's diagnoses should not in any way impact you later in life.


It's not about people being worried or thinking you're dangerous or mentally unstable or anything remotely like that. You have some very important questions about the way you lead your life. You're asking random people on a forum about those questions, instead of visiting a professional who can help you work through those issues. Those therapists exist for a reason, and a lot of people use them for that purpose. Really, the issues you describe and the questions you ask indicate that visiting a therapist could help you work through those issues and questions. That's all there is to it.

It feels like you see going to a therapist as an admission that something is wrong with you. That's not what therapists are for. They're there to help you work through whatever issues or questions you have. They're not there to fix you.

 

[TorontoReign]

I appreciate the concern, but I don't see the need for it and who's to say if I saw a psychologist on a whim they wouldn't diagnose me with something just to sell me prescribed drugs or sign me up for future visits? Not only wasting my money, but accidentally invalidating the military option when it could be there.

That's not how therapists work. For one, you have no obligation to actually take any medication or follow any other treatment a therapist would prescribe. If they want you to do something you don't want to do, you can just say 'no'. Similarly, going through a therapist does not mark you as crazy or as having dangerous psychological issues, and therapist's diagnoses should not in any way impact you later in life.


It's not about people being worried or thinking you're dangerous or mentally unstable or anything remotely like that. You have some very important questions about the way you lead your life. You're asking random people on a forum about those questions, instead of visiting a professional who can help you work through those issues. Those therapists exist for a reason, and a lot of people use them for that purpose. Really, the issues you describe and the questions you ask indicate that visiting a therapist could help you work through those issues and questions. That's all there is to it.

It feels like you see going to a therapist as an admission that something is wrong with you. That's not what therapists are for. They're there to help you work through whatever issues or questions you have. They're not there to fix you.

This. I have talked to many therapists and they can help you. They won't jam medicine down your throat. You can see a Social Worker, Psychologist, or a Psychiatrist, or simply talk to a REAL person. You need to ask someone outside of this message board for advice because this kind of communication fails in many regards. Admit that you have a problem and you need help. There isn't anything wrong with that. We are just random dudes on a message board. Yes we have talked many times over the years, but we are not the best source of advice. I could be a serial killer for all you know. I am also divorced, so my relationship advice may suck. I do have a good perspective on the issues you mentioned, but ultimately YOU need to figure shit out for yourself. Quit being so introspective. Work your problems out. Don't over-examine life or you will drive yourself insane.

 

[donperkan]

I totally forgot that in some countries therapy costs money. So how much money are we talking about for let's say a 6 months treatment?

Vauld dweller is that an issue for you as well, could you cover that bill?

 

[Ben]

Vault Dweller, please shoot me a PM. I am seeing a lot of poor advice here. Here are a few examples

1. We are not running out of war, there is a line out the door of types who need their ass kicked.

2. The majority of recruiters are honest. Basic training was not hard in 2008; you can't get hit like Full Metal Jacket (unless it is to prevent a safety violation on a weapons range). You will have to put up with 6-7 hours of sleep a night, doing pushups and getting yelled at. Big fucking deal if you're getting paid to do it.

3. Enlistments are in increments of 8 years. This might be 8 Active or 6 active 2 reserve, 4 and 4 etc.

4. Your degree can get you in as a Specialist (E-4). The only problem with you going OCS is that it is hard to get slots. I am not saying you can't do it but it is very competitive

To shed light on my situation, I'm 22 and commissioned through a Military Junior College and will have my Bachelors in May, currently in the Texas Army National Guard as an Infantry Platoon Leader. The military is the reason I have a life so I more than encourage you to experience it.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I appreciate the concern, but I don't see the need for it and who's to say if I saw a psychologist on a whim they wouldn't diagnose me with something just to sell me prescribed drugs or sign me up for future visits? Not only wasting my money, but accidentally invalidating the military option when it could be there. .

Thats why I said you have to find a "good" or "correct" one.

Again. Medications are not the task of therapists. That is a completely different matter.

You have to make a difference between "habits" (phobia) and dissorders which happne because unbalances in your brain (hormones for example).

Both work with completely different treatments it can have sometimes a conection for example someone who is suffering heavly from panic might need medications to get those under controll and then they can work on changing the habits.

Someone who has a bipolar dissorder might not be able to do his usual life without medications because even the best therapist cant do anything if it is caused by imbalances in the hormones.

It is a extremly complicated and complex field. particularly since everything is only known trough trial and error.

Now if YOU really need a therapist or not. Well that is something which only YOU can decide. But if you already get in with "I need urgent advice!" then I am not sure what to expect. I definitely had the experience. And I am glad that I decided to go to a therapist. Many things start with our behaviour. Some are positive others negative. A therapistc can help you to work on the source of your suffering. And that is actually the important part. Any behaviour is only a problem if you have the feeling that you are suffering from it. For example a fetish or anything similar is never really a problem as long you dont have the feeling you are suffering from it - hence a fetish is not diagnosted as dissorder neither is homosexuality today seen as a mental issue anymore. Suffering has much to do if something is seen as sickness nor not. Not to mention many things which have to do with the mind are not clear anyway. There probably is no real "halthy" person. It just seems that some of us deal more with it then others. Like how some people have weaker bones or kidneys which have to get more often to a doctor because of it.

Usually a therapist should not give you any trouble regarding the military as long you dont take any medications. Who told you have to pay much or even go to them regulariy. It is only about advice. Just as how some go to their priest asking for advice or suggestions. No one knows everything and sometimes it is already enugh if you have someone from outside you can talk with which has a different opinion or view point on your problems because we always only see the whole situaiton from our point. It is very difficult pretty much almost impossible to step "outside" and see the issue from a different angle. Hence why it is important to hear the opinions of others.

 

[Moe Canibo]

Where...is...the...pic?

EDIT: I should learn how to read.

 

[Serge 13]

-I'm aware people take advantage of each other often. I'm probably too kind and would attract someone terrible without realizing it. How often do such things happen and how easily can they be broken up with?

A lot!
Kind people always get it up the ass in this world. I'm telling you this from personal experience sonny. I know what kind of a person you are. If you're living in a country that allows you to work, afford college etc. then you should be glad. You could at least survive. But pretty much everything else turns into to shit when you touch it. This world isn't kind to "kind" people. Get used to it.
I have the same situation as you but with the minor difference that I have to live the rest of my days in a country called Iran! Yup, worked as an english teacher at an Institution for the past two months and since the guys that were working there figured that I was "kind" they decided to postpone my payday to an indefinite date. I decided to quit today since every class I took made them richer and made me more and more exhausted and depressed...and that's that.

 

[Sub-Human]

Kind people always get it up the ass in this world. This world isn't kind to "kind" people. Get used to it.

Listen to this guy.

 

[aboniks]

2. The majority of recruiters are honest.

With all due respect, this was not my experience, nor was it the experience of the vast majority of the enlisted personnel that I discussed the situation with while I was in.

EDIT: On further reflection, this experience may simply be less common for recruits interested in infantry MOS's. Most military recruiters have a (fairly) accurate idea of what the infantry actually does, which is not the case for a lot of other specialties. Most recruits also have a basic sense of what the infantry is, although it's often warped by hollywood fantasy.

Things may be changing now that Big Army is less strapped for meat, and that would be a good thing.

My caution stands though; Anything a recruiter tells you should be verified through an independent source. The process of building your contract when you join is important enough that you don't want to roll the dice and hope that you're getting straight information from a single source with a vested interest in the process. Due diligence is your own responsibility.

 

[Verevoof]

Sander and Vuk pretty much said what I was going to on what you said about professional help.

Also, you said "a psychologist on a whim they wouldn't diagnose me with something just to sell me prescribed drugs or sign me up for future visits?" That is not how therapy works, and it is certainly not how psychologists specifically work, as they do not have the authority to even write a prescription for medication (although, in some states I believe they do).

Anyway, I understand your concerns and reservations about seeking professional help. I was in a position where I was urged to get psychological help, and of course I had my own reservations about it. But I eventually did see a psychiatrist once. Yes once. The doctor didn't lock me up and throw away the key, she didn't shove medication down my throat, she didn't force me to come back. It is entirely up to you whether or not you follow their advice. And that's it, they just provide guidance, answers, and techniques to help you cope with whatever problems you are facing.

There is no shame in seeing a therapist.

 

[aboniks]

...There is not shame in seeing a therapist.

This. My experience with mental health professionals actually helped me quite bit, and should probably get at least partial credit for saving both my life and my marriage. Sometimes people just need a reality check and someone to break shit down for them. Better a clinician than a bunch of jokers on the internet.

They're not all drug-pushing crazy-makers.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Kind people always get it up the ass in this world. This world isn't kind to "kind" people. Get used to it.

Listen to this guy.

I dissagre with this.

I think I can honestly say that (apart from this board) I am one of the nicest people you will ever know. No seriously. My tolerance knows pretty much no limits and I am a very calm person. There are many things I do for people. And I am trying to stay positive about most things regardless how shit things are (and they are right now not all to bright but that is another story).

With saying that. I receive a lot of shit for many things. Family, bad jobs, money issues. But. I also receive many nice things. I have a few good friends, people in my class reckognize my good personalty/character and they are surprised how positively I stay despite the ods. I had no clue how to pay my school. Did I wasted time thinking about it ? Hell no. There was nothing I could do at that moment. So I went on and helped a friend to fix his new apartment. What happend ? His parents have been so happy about the work I did they gave me around 800 Euro and I had almost every evening a free meal. Wow. And that for work I expected NOTHING in return. Good things do exist in this world. And good things DO happen to good people. Not always. But sometimes.

Life is a fight. Always. It never stops to be stressfull. And when people talk about changes and better times. Well to be honest you solve today problems to face another in the future. It never stops to be that way and one will always face parts in his life which throw him back quite heavily and thus no one regardless of the experience is save from depressions or a colapse or what ever. Just as how no one is save from a serious sickness like cancer.

With this I agree when it comes to the "nay" sayers. It is true afterall. But only because we can not change our cards does not mean we can not decide how to play with them. Sooner or later everyone has to leave the table anyway. Some will win much others nothing. Thats life. But important is how you play with what you have on your hands.

 

[Ben]

this was not my experience, nor was it the experience of the vast majority of the enlisted personnel that I discussed the situation with while I was in.

I'd like to hear that story off the net sometime. The recruiting bat I did ADSW for was very transparent.

My caution stands though; Anything a recruiter tells you should be verified through an independent source. The process of building your contract when you join is important enough that you don't want to roll the dice and hope that you're getting straight information from a single source with a vested interest in the process. Due diligence is your own responsibility.

This is good advice, and you have quite a few of those 3rd party sources to filter bullshit for you right here. Ask away

 

[aboniks]

this was not my experience, nor was it the experience of the vast majority of the enlisted personnel that I discussed the situation with while I was in.

I'd like to hear that story off the net sometime. The recruiting bat I did ADSW for was very transparent.

It's not really long enough to justify going off net for. The basic problem was that recruiters at the time were under heavy pressure to make targets. There was a lot of song and dance about what any given MOS would actually entail, but much of it was out of date or simply wrong. No one that I discussed this with had a recruiter explain that regardless of your MOS, you were likely to end up walking patrol in Iraq if your unit needed people on patrol more than they need whatever it was you nominally trained for in AIT. OJT for a technical position makes sense in a peacetime army, or in garrison, but not in a combat zone. An untrained tech gets people killed through ignorance.

There was also a disconcerting level of so-called first hand knowledge on display in recruiting offices; lots of recruiters waxing rhapsodical about what a given MOS did, when they had apparently just glanced at a one paragraph summary. Mine was happy to sell me on 25F after he learned what I had experience in, but his description of the MOS and the reality had almost nothing in common. It's just what happens when the needs of the service turn soldiers into salesmen.

I shall retire from this thread, I think, as I'm out of anything even remotely valuable to say about the OP's dilemmas.

Good luck, VD