I'd support Ceasars Legion except [Insert answer here]

Ilosar said:
The man slaughtered his own tribe, he razes an entire city instead of, you know, converting it's vast spaces or something (and with the Legion's track record I seriously doubt he politely asked the hundreds or even thousands dwelling in it to move out of the way)

I don't think it said he razed Vegas in that ending, although I might be wrong. IIRC he occupied Vegas like it was a military target and destroyed only those who resisted. If you willingly join the Legion and don't resist, they won't kill you. My point about the Legion is that even if they're brutal and you wind up a slave, at least you don't have to worry about some drug addicted fiend killing you just because he can. If you don't try to resist the Legion you'll just be able to assimilate and live a pretty decent life (decent by wasteland standards). As long as you keep your mouth shut, you don't have anything to worry about.

he pursues the Remnants with no regards for the life of his men (if he did, he would have given up after a few tries, spears and machetes are no good against Power Armor and a Vertibird, as it should be),

It's exactly because of this that the Legion knew they had to keep pursuing the Remnants. If the Remnants could do that to well trained soldiers, imagine what they could do if they decided to march into a Legion town. They could massacre every man woman and child there and burn the town to the ground, Lanius doesn't like needlessly sacrificing soldiers but this isn't needless sacrifice, they're well armed criminals who have no loyalty to the Legion and could potentially hurt a lot more people than the couple hundred who were lost hunting them.

and his ending more or less implies he just attack-moves his armies West destroying all in his path. Yes, a real gentlemen there, just what the Wasteland needs, more warlords causing untold destruction where there was once peace.

The point here though is that at least they're not fighting each other. NCR can barely protect its citizens from a couple drug addicted raiders, while in Legion territory crime is almost unheard of. Instead of hundreds of tribes of raiders fighting each other, it's one big nation that unites all the tribes and ends most of the needless death and fighting.

Really, defending the Legion is a bit of a stretch, but Lanius? He is the worst of the lot save maybe for Vulpes Inculta.

He's not even as bad as Caesar really. Seeing as he's one of the only people in the game who can be convinced that the battle for Hoover Dam isn't worth the sacrifice, he's a pretty sensible guy even if he is brutal.

And about the NCR's ineptitude, they still are the only faction in the Fallout canon to actually get things done, if we forget that Capital Wasteland White Knight's Happy Go-Round business known otherwise as Lyon's Brotherhood. We see them protecting the population (Goodsprings, Primm and Novac fare the best under their rule, the others either ignore or crush them), develop the economy with their caravans,

It's stated several times in game that caravan companies are safer doing business with the Legion, and that they also prefer to because there aren't any random taxes or tolls on Legion roads.

One of the character's (I forget who) said something along the lines of, "The NCR are just robbers who legislate their crimes first so that it's legal."

Edit: Goodsprings can be wiped out by a couple convicts who escaped from an NCR prison, Primm is being attacked by more escaped convicts and the NCR won't help because it's "outside their jurisdiction", and Novac is being protected by Boone and Manny not the NCR. All I'm saying is that even if you're a slave in the Legion, at least you don't have to worry about some escaped convict blowing you up with a stick of dynamite.

are willing to cooperate with the other major factions (the two other major powers require you to exterminate at least one)

The numerous factions in the wasteland are the reason the war will never stop, and why House thinks humanity will destroy itself all over again. They might be willing to side with the other factions when it's convenient for them, but eventually they'll just go back to war when the NCR wants to expand. The Legion assimilates the other factions and tribes and makes them part of the Legion.

, implement large-scale agricultural projects (far more important to the Wasteland that Ceasar's ''glory'' or House's casinos),

The Legion doesn't seem to be exactly starving. The reason we don't see any Legion farms is because it's the front line in a major campaign and the food comes from Legion farms in the East, how many soldiers do you think were farming in the trenches of WWI?

not to mention holding off the cosplaying psychos on the other side of the Colorado. For all that talk about the NCR being inept they did a lot of things in the Mojave, they are certainly not perfect but this is Fallout, nobody is.

They honestly aren't that great for the Mojave, they're willing to side with criminals (Van Graffs, McLafferty), they have far too many bureaucratic misunderstandings that end with people getting hurt (not serving food to Freesiders), several people high up in NCR command are corrupt, they have trouble protecting citizens from a couple drug addicts, they can't handle a prison riot, their economy is collapsing, their citizens are starving, and they're doomed to make the same mistakes the pre-war government did.

Edit:

Wintermind said:
Courier's point is that Lanius is pretty much straight up. He might be a murderous bastard, but he'll always be a bastard. You can count on him to be Lanius. Lanius wouldn't resort to treachery or the like to kill you. He would stab you in the back, in the back as the phrase goes, but he would cut you in half with the Blade of the East, but you'd be expecting it, not in the least because he'd be charging you with that goddamned sword screaming bloody murder.

Yeah that's pretty much it, the Legion might not be very nice but at least you know what you're getting into there. House could turn into a crazy dictator and the NCR has trouble just keeping its citizens safe and fed.
 
Well I alreadt supported them in a Run. they are interesting btu kind of vague, like the information there is implied but it coudl use a lot more exploration, so I said I would have enjoyed more supportign them with a little more depth.
 
Walpknut said:
Well I alreadt supported them in a Run. they are interesting btu kind of vague, like the information there is implied but it coudl use a lot more exploration, so I said I would have enjoyed more supportign them with a little more depth.

Yeah that's true, they weren't really a fleshed out faction. If they had shown us a couple Legion controlled towns with average civilians rather than soldiers it would have been a lot more interesting.
 
Courier said:
They're not skirts they're kilts! :oops:

You mean dresses, isn't? :P

If CL had a little more substance and if Obsidian didn't put all the dices in favor of the NCR, there will be more reasons to like them, even with all the slavery, sexism and barbarism.

After beating NV many times they became "an annoying faction" and nothing more.
 
They're a good faction to side with in your first game, when you don't know that you'll be missing out on a lot of quests. If they were a little less goofy and had more quests of their own to do they'd probably be my favorite to side with.
 
Courier said:
They're a good faction to side with in your first game, when you don't know that you'll be missing out on a lot of quests. If they were a little less goofy and had more quests of their own to do they'd probably be my favorite to side with.

Yes, in my first playthrough I'v found them interesting, but after some time they lose the appeal fast, wich is a shame because there's a lot of wasted potential regarding them.

The central point is they are portrayed too "black & white", even the Khans - wich are basically raiders - have more shades of grey than them.
 
Even if I would want to support the Legion each time I REALLY tried thinking to my self "alright lets do this and help the ..." I had to shoot one of them in the face with a shotgun once I heard true to kaiser!. Meh this goofiness was just to much for me :S ... TRUE TO KAIZAR! and BAM it is like a reflex. Makes of course any interaction with the Legion quite an issue.
 
Saying, "True to Caesar!" is goofy? That's not really goofy, although the way they dress is.
 
Each faction has its own pros and cons.

The NCR is by far the most ambitious of the factions, seeking to restore the world to pre war standards in the shortest time possible. The problem with this is its overambitious and may even be dangerous. By doing this they might just suck dry the prosperous areas of the wasteland like Vegas in the name of satisfying their voter’s demands for luxury. As House stated the NCR is a nation of consumers.

Caesar has a far more modest objective. He only wants to preserve humanity and restore order by forcibly assimilating humanity into his Legion. While some find his views on women sexist having women focus on child bearing and rearing may be the best solution for returning humans to former numbers. Caesar would most likely do a far better job of handling the mutant’s threat. If he was in charge Tabitha's head would have been on a stake.

House would be somewhere in the middle as far as ambitiousness. Pre war civilization would be preserved, but only in one city, the Hoover damn with all its potential for improving life would be fed into that city while the wasteland would languish. Both the NCR and the Legion would be diminished if not destroyed by their defeat in the Mojave leaving the Wasteland both east and west of Vegas leaderless.

Independent seems like the worst ending possible, I don't see why this is a good ending even though it’s probably going to be cannon.
 
House the one in the middle? thats why you play more than one run, House is so over confident in his own skills at rebuilding society that his plan might seem too naive, he wants to put people in orbit in less than 100 years from the way the world is, The NCR is actualy the best one of the three factions to support, they are a nation of consumers.... just like any other comunity is, Vegas wasn't created to fill the voters wishes, it was made by House to attract the money and attention of the NCR so he could make his plan viable. WIthout the work the NCR did on the Mojave House wouldn't have any resoruces to carry his plan on.
 
I think its stupid not to play as the legion because of sexism. By that logic you would'nt be able to play any of the total war games because all of the countries had conservative roles for women.
 
Quagmire69 said:
Independent seems like the worst ending possible, I don't see why this is a good ending even though it’s probably going to be cannon.

Independent's the worst ending? It's pretty much like siding with House, without all the negative things that come along with siding with House. Unless Yes Man goes crazy and starts a robot apocalypse, I don't see how this is the worst. Hell, even Benny recommends this ending and he put up a pretty good argument. Even if Benny was a snake, he was still one of the most sensible characters in the game.
 
The Independent endign would be the hardest one to make work, technicaly it "is" the worst one because it depends more on the Courier doing a lot of work instead of pavign the way of another already stablished faction, it has a lot of flaws, and if you made a Int 2 character it would pretty much doom everything on the long run.
 
Let me correct myself then, it's the best ending if you're an intelligent Courier with good karma.
 
Unless Yes Man goes crazy and starts a robot apocalypse
I actually wondered about that, especially after yes man mentioned how he had made himself ore assertive. The last thing the remnants of humanity need is an army of self aware robots with high tech weoponry. Besides there was always something creepy about that robot.
 
Walpknut said:
House the one in the middle? thats why you play more than one run, House is so over confident in his own skills at rebuilding society that his plan might seem too naive, he wants to put people in orbit in less than 100 years from the way the world is, The NCR is actualy the best one of the three factions to support, they are a nation of consumers.... just like any other comunity is, Vegas wasn't created to fill the voters wishes, it was made by House to attract the money and attention of the NCR so he could make his plan viable. WIthout the work the NCR did on the Mojave House wouldn't have any resoruces to carry his plan on.

The "House can't put people in space in 100 years" claim is born out of ignorance. I'll give you a point of reference: in 1885, Carl Benz created the first motorcar. In 1969, 84 years later, Armstrong set foot on lunar soil. House's claim isn't crazy or impossible; in fact, given his vision and business acumen, I say he's going to reach his goals.

House is starting from a far better position too, as humanity has already developed spaceflight technology, created the facilities for it, ships etc. All he has to do is pick up up the pieces and glue them back together.
 
Hell the Courier actually does put people in space in 'Come fly with me'.
 
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