I'd support Ceasars Legion except [Insert answer here]

It's more that putting people in space seems like a very out of touch goal when half of New Vegas lives in dangerous, derelict districts, with some only surviving by self-sufficiency (Westside). Yeah, he can send people to the Moon, so what if everyone but his goons on the Strip are starving, right? And IIRC it's implied Freeside pretty much only feeds because of the NCR sharecropers and the Kings-controlled water. As much as I dislike the Legion, at least they try to do something, House only seems to stay in his ivory tower and concot ''brilliant'' plans that only serve to increase his power (Securitron army) or appease his ego (space flight).
 
I don't think he actually wanted to send people into space, I think he was more making a point that he could do it if he wanted to.
 
But who cares? As you just pointed out, the bright followers were able to accomplish the same thing with minimal technical assistance from the Courier. Space flight isn't a particularly impressive feat in this setting. Furthermore, the House ending mentions nothing of a glorious new age of science, or NV becoming a centre for technological development, so based on the ingame sources I think it can be assumed that House's assertions of being able to guide humanity to a brighter future is in fact mostly empty talk.
 
Walpknut said:
The Independent endign would be the hardest one to make work, technicaly it "is" the worst one because it depends more on the Courier doing a lot of work instead of pavign the way of another already stablished faction, it has a lot of flaws, and if you made a Int 2 character it would pretty much doom everything on the long run.
Click to expand...

Well, usually independence is not a straightforward thing to happen, but when done it right the rewards are more solid than having a overseeing authority or even being a protectorate.
So why independent way is the worst scenario?

The region will be free of the invading factions and can developt on it's own way.
How this is bad?

BTW, I did an 1 INT build one time, why this would jeopardize the independent scenario?
 
Yeah, independent doesn't mean that nobody else woudl invade it, on the contrary, to get the independent ending you get TWO big factions pissed off at you, if you convinced the Legate to back off then he will come back stronger, eh himself says so, same thing with the NCR, the Robot Army might seem like enoughj, but places like freeside just get more violent, it would turn into a police state, and it is the job of your courier to make sure it actualy develops, a Courier with no barter on any kind of skills, or an idiot woudl mean a region ruled by a dumbass and the AI programed to follow his orders, unless Yes-man's upgrade that makes him mroe asertive also makes him independent of the Courier, The NCR path ensure a smoother process of recovery, the NCR has an already stablished goverment, army, and you can potentialy have the BOS and NCR ranegrs patroling trade routes strengtening the pwoer of the region, on the Independent ending the BOS become polite raiders, harrasing travelers and confiscating technology, when you have a Region that Depends on a robot army to keep themselves "safe" that scenario can only result in trouble, the Independent ending is the most dangerous one to take, at least with House you have someone with administrative skills actualy takign care of keeping the region well maintained if unchanging.
 
Independent Vegas does have some pretty serious challenges ahead, it's true.

First off, the economy depicted in the game is entirely dependent on NCR tourism. If NV becomes independent it would probably also seize Hoover Dam and Helios One, diversifying into exporting electricity as well. But it's still entirely dependant on trade with the NCR to survive.

Second, the city is populated mostly by reformed tribals. They have little in the way of advanced technical or medical skills; as the Followers ending shows, basic societal functions really break down outside the strip in the event of independence. Furthermore, this populace may struggle to operate the Dam and Helios One without NCR technical assistance. The tribal nature of the populace may also contribute to political instability and unrest (due to little shared identity between the different groups), although the House ending at least suggests that his Securitrons are able to keep the Strip pacified.

Finally, NV is still in the same precarious place in regional politics. With big neighbours on both sides, both bearing grudges from the second battle of Hoover Dam, the city will need a strong army to assert its continual independence. Unfortunately, there's little indication that the various tribals would be able or willing to provide a solid defence force, and the Securitrons are ultimately vulnerable because House doesn't have any readily available way to further upgrade them or produce more. This means that the NV fighting capabilities are probably at its peak following the events of FO:NV, but its relative power will inevitably decline. In the final analysis, it's hard to imagine how NV could withstand a protracted war of attrition with NCR, unless the republic becomes consumed by internal unrest and secessions.
 
That, and having your entire army rendered useless by a set of stairs is quite embarrassing. Maybe if the Securitrons had a secondary set of legs...

At any rate, all of this is the reason I think NCR is the best ending; the Legion is ethically very challenged even for Fallout's unforgiving world (on top of all the bloodlust and the general campiness), House is a deluded relic, and Independant Vegas relies on a very unreliable Yes Man and Courier, and is not a long-term solution anyway since Vegas produces next to nothing that helps build a State once the NCR cash cow turns tail. There's a reason why City-States tend to disappear once big nations start to grow near them, they just can't compete in the long run.
 
Sure, the NCR is the easy way, but just remember that at the end of the conflict they are retreating and don't seem to have resources to build another army for invading again the Mojave. Since the NCR build some infra-structure, farms and have organized trades routes in the region, this could be used pretty much like the colonial US used what Great Britain builded in America before the Independence War.

NCR need eletrical power, so an trading relationship can be made for selling the spare power to California. Since they need this power and they losted A LOT of money in the war, it's likelly they will accept an agreement, instead of going again to war.
This money in return can be used to developt the region and create an strong army.
If you organize the Kings correctly, they help the locals and even NCR refugees and is an figure that seems open to negotiation for revitalizing the region, so probably Freeside and New Vegas will be a single place, with the walls separating the two locations putted down.

The main problem is the lack of structered law, parliament and an official authority, this will take some time to create.

The game don't provide much more than "New Vegas as an independence power in the Mojave", but looking as a whole, it's unlike that it would be one city isolated from the rest of the region.
 
Ilosar said:
It's more that putting people in space seems like a very out of touch goal when half of New Vegas lives in dangerous, derelict districts, with some only surviving by self-sufficiency (Westside). Yeah, he can send people to the Moon, so what if everyone but his goons on the Strip are starving, right? And IIRC it's implied Freeside pretty much only feeds because of the NCR sharecropers and the Kings-controlled water. As much as I dislike the Legion, at least they try to do something, House only seems to stay in his ivory tower and concot ''brilliant'' plans that only serve to increase his power (Securitron army) or appease his ego (space flight).
Click to expand...

Do note that he first wants to restart industry, which will require workers, which will be drawn from outlying New Vegas districts.
 
Freeside and Westside are currently totally unimportant to House. He's far more concerned with NCR and the Legion, and the upcoming battle at the dam. That means finding the Chip and getting his robot army. Once he has that, he can worry about setting up factories, farms and etc, and in due course turn Freesideinto a plce people would actually want to live in.
 
But then why the hell did he take 200 years to do that? Don't tell me it's because he didn't have the platinum chip, his Securitrons are enough to police New Vegas at least (if not, he didn't think that plan of his very well). Why wait until the NCR and Legion are duking it out under his shadow to actually get things done? The man had 200 year's worth of spare time, yet the city he watched over remains a cesspit except from a few casinos. What tells us it will be otherwise in the future?
 
I might be wrong with this. But I think I remember House explained once to the player that he needed a long time to restart his systems because when the bombs dropped only the life support was working and pretty much nothing else. Only slowly was he able to restart each system including the securitrons. But I am not sure about this part.
 
Thats because he wasn't awake from the war, his systems failed and he fell into a coma, he regained conciousness in 2138, I think most of his Securitrons needed the Platinum CHip to start working, he has a handful on the Strip, most of them were on the Fort, and also with the wya things were before the NCR arrived House rely didn't have the resources to get his plan in motion other than creatign the Strip.
 
Yeah he had some sort of bug in his OS that he would have needed the platinum chip to fix, but he finally got everything in working order after a while then opened up the Lucky 38 when the NCR showed up.
 
Though I still agree with Brother None when he says that the "chip" is probably the cheapest MAcGuffins ever ...

I mean honestly. No fallout game really started with some "awesome" story or such. But Vegas is sure one of those games with the weakest start. Even worse then F2s "find GECK or we dieee!"
 
Really? Fallout was "Find water chip or we dieeeeee!", Fallout 2 was "Find GECK or we dieeeeee!", Fallout 3 was "Find father and water purifier or we dieeeeee!", New Vegas was "What the hell just happened? What the hell was it you stole from me? You know what, I'm going to track you down."

If anything Vegas has the strongest start, if only because you're doing things because you want to. Sure the chip becomes a cheap macguffin later on, but in the beginning you genuinely want to find out what it is and without anybody telling you to go look for it.
 
I genuinely liked the start of New Vegas the most, myself. Any character that the player can dream up can conflict with the original start the dev's designed, but NV's is so fucking natural it's wonderful.

You start, you get your shit stolen, and even if you don't care, you just got shot in the head and left in a shallow grave. If you're vaguely human, you're pissed that you got shit stolen and doubly pissed that you got shit in the head. And you set off on a quest to get your shit back and return the bullet that was so unexpectedly gifted to you.

And that sets you off into the world to get mixed up in and take care pretty much everyone else's shit for your own reasons (help the needy, get paid, etc).
 
The first time I met them in Nipton, Vulpes managed to convinced me they were no mere savages. What they did were extremely ruthless, but NCR's Ranger Ghost herself admitted that Nipton asked to be burned.

But....then everything when downhill after that.

1. Meeting Boone and learning about how his pregnant wife got sold to the Legion. If you still have a shred of humanity, you'll get pissed too listening his story.

2. While Caesar, Vulpes, and Lanius impressed me with their ideology and charisma, most of their lower comrades didn't. Dead Sea, Aurelius, Alexus and Silus were ignorant bastard, especially Dead Sea. He asked me to wipe off the entire Forlorn Hope by myself? Damn him and his Liberator.

3. They didn't even have a decent shop or fixer. NCR, BoS, Khan hell even Powder Ganger have a better shop!

4. My biggest grief...no companion support them, except maybe Raul, but he's a Ghoul...so he didn't count. Arcade and Boone, the best duo with their quest, will abandon you the moment you got Idolized. Supporting Legion = Bad Karma (Grey choice my left cheek ass, it's black and white there!). Bad karma = Cass dump me. And Veronica, she'll leave you definitely as you're gonna bombed the BoS outta Mojave. Left me with what? A poor man Dogmeat, an eyebot, a stupid mutant, and an old, sarcastic Ghoul. Way to go, it's sure is a balance faction indeed.

5. Their outfit suck.
 
I would only except Legion if I were to rule, that is kill Lanius and Caesar. But that rule would be similar to the Khans now, more peaceful.
I see no point in raping or killing or enslaving people after the nuclear war, why not just do suicide and end it?

And the fact that Caesar is a complete BITCH compared to the awesome Lanius, but that's just my personal opinion.
 
Quoththeraven.... you do realise that every faction orders or recommends you kill the Brotherhood off, right?

I don't really get everyone's knee jerk reaction to caesar's tactics. He's sort of trying to do like the Master wanted to do with the Unity. He's removing their silly, stupid, tribal differences and allowing them to live together and work together with no bias against tribe A from growing up in tribe B (or very little bias, at least).

Unless I'm thinking of a completely different faction that i some confused with the legion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top