It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down.

Actually no, it's the developer's fault if they release buggy games, a repeated offense doesn't become amnesty. If Bethesda doesn't improve and they keep releasing broken games AT FULL PRICE then it's more than reasonable for the consumers to lash out to them. The person providing the product is the one who should be blamed for any and all problems with it.
 
Reading the reviews have actually made my day rather nicely. For the past few months many people have actually asked me if I was excited for Fallout 4. For a little context I regularly wear a Vault 101 jacket that is actually pretty good quality, and looks rather well like an actual vault suit. I never bought it because I like fallout 3, but because I like the Vault design. Everytime I had to say that I don't trust Bethesda's ability to produce a good story. As well with the removal of dialogue and skills. I then can't actually trust their ability to produce good dialogue, especially through such a strange system, and their ability to create perks is non-existant from what I've seen in Skyrim and Fallout 3, so going to a perk system was simply out of the question.
 
I"m not a hardline Fallout 1/2 purist and even I agree with most of htese points. I"m sorry but even form a modding perspective this dialogue system is next to unfixable and limits the player Waaay t oo much. even playing New Vegas and 3 I preferred their dialogue system because you di dn't hav ea stupid limitation based on some pointless wheel or or having options mapped to four buttons max. this system is a perticular pewt peeve of mine and I"m hopi ng it won't stick wi th the series.
 
PossibleCabbage said:
At this point though, I think everybody should understand that "Bethesda releases games that are seriously compromised by bugs after launch, and will spend the next 15 or so months fixing their game". So if you made the mistake of preordering it, you probably should have known you were going to get a buggy, somewhat unpolished, and poorly optimized game. I get, though, that blaming oneself is difficult, so lashing out is understandable.
Click to expand...
Except that they never do spend the next 15 months fixing their game. They spend maybe four or five months putting out fires by tossing half-assed patches at it that usually break as much as they fix, until the modding tools are out and the mod makers are comfortable enough with the new system to take over the chore of fixing the game. If Bethesda actually paid Arthmoor and the rest of the team that's responsible for making all of the unofficial patches for every Bethesda game and DLC a fair rate for what their effort is worth in sales, the company would be bankrupt.

I rememebr they talked a great big game about how they were going to offer unprecedented levels of support for Skyrim - that lasted about as long as it took them to release that patch that introduced backward flying dragons, and then it was back to business as usual. At least until the legal department started worrying that leaving the PS3 version in the utterly broken state it was released in while keeping all the money was probably going to cost them big time in court, and they brought in a team from Sony to basically rewrite every line of code.

And yet they still continue to laugh all the way to the bank. SMFH.
 
I think that the player's patience for bugs and poor performance has just been stretched to a breaking point.

Back when Bethesda games were unusually buggy and poorly performing, they were in a fairly unique position. The ''Bethesda games are like that'' defense, which was pure BS but people still comforted themselves with it.

Now, however, two things have happened. First, the last few years or so have been rife with horribly buggy and optimized AAA games (such as Unity, Watch Dogs, Colonial Marines, Arkham Knights) that have each had their own drama.

Second, Witcher 3 and Dragon Age: Inquisition have shown that you can, indeed, make a big-ass open world RPG that looks nice, performs well enough, and isn't choke full of bugs (yes these games had bugs, but nothing as blatantly broken as usual Bethesda fare). The fact that TW3 in particular blows FO4 completely and utterly out of the water in terms of world and quest design too only further highlights how tragically inadequate the typical Bethesda formula is now.

So I think that this helped break the mindset that Bethesda can release half broken games and let the modders fix them. People a have less tolerance for that stuff nowadays, at least on gaming forums. Add to that the the graphics are really nowhere near spectacular enough to warrant the game being so broken, and Beth is just all out of excuses.

I still didn't expect such low user reviews. Hell, as of now FO4 scores 87 across all platforms even for press reviews, which is unually low for a Beth game. User scores are 4.7 on PC and 5.3 at best on consoles. It does seem that, for now at least, the Bethesda fandom bunker is showing a few scratches.
 
Ilosar said:
I think that the player's patience for bugs and poor performance has just been stretched to a breaking point.

Back when Bethesda games were unusually buggy and poorly performing, they were in a fairly unique position. The ''Bethesda games are like that'' defense, which was pure BS but people still comforted themselves with it.

Now, however, two things have happened. First, the last few years or so have been rife with horribly buggy and optimized AAA games (such as Unity, Watch Dogs, Colonial Marines, Arkham Knights) that have each had their own drama.

Second, Witcher 3 and Dragon Age: Inquisition have shown that you can, indeed, make a big-ass open world RPG that looks nice, performs well enough, and isn't choke full of bugs (yes these games had bugs, but nothing as blatantly broken as usual Bethesda fare). The fact that TW3 in particular blows FO4 completely and utterly out of the water in terms of world and quest design too only further highlights how tragically inadequate the typical Bethesda formula is now.

So I think that this helped break the mindset that Bethesda can release half broken games and let the modders fix them. People a have less tolerance for that stuff nowadays, at least on gaming forums. Add to that the the graphics are really nowhere near spectacular enough to warrant the game being so broken, and Beth is just all out of excuses.

I still didn't expect such low user reviews. Hell, as of now FO4 scores 87 across all platforms even for press reviews, which is unually low for a Beth game. User scores are 4.7 on PC and 5.3 at best on consoles. It does seem that, for now at least, the Bethesda fandom bunker is showing a few scratches.
Click to expand...

I was surprised too, even though Bethfans are as rabid and sad as always.
 
PossibleCabbage said:
At this point though, I think everybody should understand that "Bethesda releases games that are seriously compromised by bugs after launch, and will spend the next 15 or so months fixing their game". So if you made the mistake of preordering it, you probably should have known you were going to get a buggy, somewhat unpolished, and poorly optimized game. I get, though, that blaming oneself is difficult, so lashing out is understandable.
Click to expand...

But it shouldn't be like that though, I mean despite all of the issues that make Fallout 4 not a true Fallout game, you should still be able to buy the game on day one and at least experience a normal game without bugs and also logical errors - see Diamond City and breaking in to Kellogg's room without the Synth ... I mean yeah ... common knowledge is, don't preorder, don't buy on the first day. But I always cringe at that idea ... because seriously, that's NOT how it should be :/

Walpknut said:
Actually no, it's the developer's fault if they release buggy games, a repeated offense doesn't become amnesty. If Bethesda doesn't improve and they keep releasing broken games AT FULL PRICE then it's more than reasonable for the consumers to lash out to them. The person providing the product is the one who should be blamed for any and all problems with it.
Click to expand...

I am completely with you ... but after soooo many years of experience with Bethesda ... and they are not alone, EA is just as much to blame here with their games.

However it does beg the question, how do they get always away with it?

Because people still buy the crap on day-1 and preordering that garbage like crazy :/. Like I said, you are absolutely right! But it is already a runing gag among gamers when you talk about it. It's like a common knowledge ... and yet ... people still buy it all because they can't controll their impulses or something?

If 90% of the consumers would flat out refuse to buy bugged games, I am pretty sure that this would send a pretty clear signal and forcing more companies, including Bethesda to change their habbits. Or they would simply dissapear.
 
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Crni Vuk said:
PossibleCabbage said:
At this point though, I think everybody should understand that "Bethesda releases games that are seriously compromised by bugs after launch, and will spend the next 15 or so months fixing their game". So if you made the mistake of preordering it, you probably should have known you were going to get a buggy, somewhat unpolished, and poorly optimized game. I get, though, that blaming oneself is difficult, so lashing out is understandable.
Click to expand...

But it shouldn't be like that though, I mean despite all of the issues that make Fallout 4 not a true Fallout game, you should still be able to buy the game on day one and at least experience a normal game without bugs and also logical errors - see Diamond City and breaking in to Kellogg's room without the Synth ... I mean yeah ... common knowledge is, don't preorder, don't buy on the first day. But I always cringe at that idea ... because seriously, that's NOT how it should be :/

Walpknut said:
Actually no, it's the developer's fault if they release buggy games, a repeated offense doesn't become amnesty. If Bethesda doesn't improve and they keep releasing broken games AT FULL PRICE then it's more than reasonable for the consumers to lash out to them. The person providing the product is the one who should be blamed for any and all problems with it.
Click to expand...

I am completely with you ... but after soooo many years of experience with Bethesda ... and they are not alone, EA is just as much to blame here with their games.

However it does beg the question, how do they get always away with it?

Because people still buy the crap on day-1 and preordering that garbage like crazy :/. Like I said, you are absolutely right! But it is already a runing gag among gamers when you talk about it. It's like a common knowledge ... and yet ... people still buy it all because they can't controll their impulses or something?

If 90% of the consumers would flat out refuse to buy bugged games, I am pretty sure that this would send a pretty clear signal and forcing more companies, including Bethesda to change their habbits. Or they would simply dissapear.
Click to expand...

Bethesda's fans keep forgiving them for some reasons, the same they would rip apart EA... why? Why this fanaticism that makes us look tame? What's so special about Bethesda's games?
 
I think If they make people wait long enough they'll buy it regardless even though in all likelihood it's gonna be shit. Bethesda are better at misdirecting customers than making games. Just my opinion.
 
Not particularly. I think there's a decent enough chance of Obsidian making another, but I don't believe Beth would let them make all future Fallout games.
 
I dunno. I kinda feel like they won't like being trumped a second time. Fallout 4 kinda screams "THIS IS OUR SERIES NOW!" They gonna fuck with it however they want.
 
Well, it wouldn't really be their decision. Bethesda the dev team isn't the entire company. I think people forget about that sometimes. I really doubt they give a shit about being "trumped". Money's money, and if they can make more off another Fallout while the dev team is working on the next Elder Scrolls, they'll go for it. It would be foolish not to.
 
I watched vids of the Institute questline. The quest themselves look boring as fuck (bunch of shoota and synth fetch quests were the few that I've seen), but I find
Shaun's
voice acting to be pretty sweet. Maybe I just have low standards though.

On topic, I doubt this will mean much. This is just /v/, RPGCodex, us, and some console kids trolling Metacritic. Once it's over and maybe patches come out, suddenly there will be unadulterated praises, and for a few years it's gonna head every "Top 50 RPGs" list on IGN.
 
I guess if we are honest, people are not giving Fallout 4 low scores because of the REALLY bad stuff, like the boring quests, the stiff NPCs, the outdated visual representation (faces, animation etc.) or for the shitty story and writing.

People complain so much because of the bugs. Once some of them dissapear and the mods start to come out, people will be all over this hiking simulator all over again.
 
Aaaaand.... Here comes the antibacklash! www.thejimquisition.com/2015/11/metabombed-fallout-4-is-vomit-trash/
In other words it seems, that general gaming culture tries to write off classic Fallout fans just as an immature and childish fandom... I find it funny, that this article's author says, that most probably the backlash doesn't come mainly from fans of original Fallouts, but also from trolls and Bethesda haters and other broad statements... Because there's no way, that in reality a Bethesda game isn't the second coming of Christ and won't be appreaciated by everyone...
 
Crni Vuk said:
I guess if we are honest, people are not giving Fallout 4 low scores because of the REALLY bad stuff, like the boring quests, the stiff NPCs, the outdated visual representation (faces, animation etc.) or for the shitty story and writing.

People complain so much because of the bugs. Once some of them dissapear and the mods start to come out, people will be all over this hiking simulator all over again.
Click to expand...

I don't know. I have been reading a lot of reviews on Metacritic, Amazon and Steam and one of the major complaints, besides the bugs and horrible UI is the dialogue wheel, lack of RPG elements and writing. People have been been bringing up New Vegas a lot stating that Beth learned nothing from everything Obsidian gave them choosing instead to strip everything that was done well in New Vegas in order to get a more casual audience. So maybe there is hope after all but hope can be a cruel mistress.
 
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