It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down.

Mr Fish said:
Is there any part of Fallout 4 you guys genuinely enjoy and how much do you enjoy it?
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It's fun for people who enjoy playing MMOs alone. :razz:

In all seriousness, I found it a fun game. Coming from me, that's not saying much. It's unique even in its bad bits - unlike any game I've seen, Fallout 4 does a little bit of good with everything and a little bit of bad with everything. Then they put in lots of things, and the goods and bads accumulate. This is unlike other AAA games where the pros and cons are clear and easy to define, making it really hard to screw up a sequel. Fallout 4 is full of a lot of little good things and little bad things.

In short, you can do a bit of everything, but there's no focus in anything. If in terms of "things to do" you prefer quantity over quality, Fallout 4 perfectly fills that niche.
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This makes it basically a Jack-Of-All-Trades video game, which is why people play it. I mean, you guys call Bethesda RPGs the fast food of video games like it's an insult. But you look at how popular fast food is, how are you still confused why people play them? [/FONT]
 
I can't find a game that almost makes me fall asleep at my desk to be even decent. There's the shooty kill things aspect but it gets boring as hell when that's what you're doing the majority of the time and there are way better first person shooters out there to play.
 
Mr Fish said:
Is there any part of Fallout 4 you guys genuinely enjoy and how much do you enjoy it?
Click to expand...

Of course. It's not a "bad" game per se. It has decent graphics, fighting is fun, there's lots of content to pursue, ect, but if you look at it honestly, there's only one thing it does well -- open-world. Coming from Daggerfall or Morrowind, you realize that a lot of elements have been stream-lined or removed for the sake of easy access and. For me, that is a cause for disappointment. I know what to expect from Bethesda. I know what to expect from an RPG. Fallout 4 doesn't really check these boxes, but sure, it's a fun game.

Many of the Beth fans don't like to hear stuff like this though. I'm not sure why. It never use to be that. Even Morrowind fans were quick to talk about what the game does bad, or even what Daggerfall did better. Nowadays, you can't even mention the poor dialog wheel or voice acting without someone jumping down your throat and calling you a troll.
 
Mr Fish said:
Dr Fallout said:
Mr Fish said:
Is there any part of Fallout 4 you guys genuinely enjoy and how much do you enjoy it?
Click to expand...

...

No comment.
Click to expand...
There's gotta be something. It can't possibly be completely irredeemable can it? I mean, did they at the very least have some funny jokes and easter eggs? Was there a set-piece or event that was well done (even if it was just some action piece trying to be cool)? Is the Glowing Sea at the very least atmospheric to go through?
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Yes it was. But there's an entire video game that looks like that and is more mature: S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Everything good about Fallout 4 comes with a price or compromise. So yes, there are good things, I even made a thread dedicated to pointing the positives out. But every positive is wasted potential. Even reasonable fans are saying "Yea...Fallout 4 has some good aspects...but can we just have Obsidian do another one?" I recognize the positives of Fallout 4 but I also believe that it's all wasted potential that would have been better off in the hands of a true RPG studio.
 
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Irwin John Finster said:
Mr Fish said:
Dr Fallout said:
Mr Fish said:
Is there any part of Fallout 4 you guys genuinely enjoy and how much do you enjoy it?
Click to expand...

...

No comment.
Click to expand...
There's gotta be something. It can't possibly be completely irredeemable can it? I mean, did they at the very least have some funny jokes and easter eggs? Was there a set-piece or event that was well done (even if it was just some action piece trying to be cool)? Is the Glowing Sea at the very least atmospheric to go through?
Click to expand...
Yes it was. But there's an entire video game that looks like that and is more mature: S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Everything good about Fallout 4 comes with a price or compromise. So yes, there are good things, I even made a thread dedicated to pointing the positives out. But every positive is wasted potential. Even reasonable fans are saying "Yea...Fallout 4 has some good aspects...but can we just have Obsidian do another one?" I recognize the positives of Fallout 4 but I also believe that it's all wasted potential that would have been better off in the hands of a true RPG studio.
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So many cuts and wasted potential in this game. That's what really makes me hate the game, the fact that the developers were making some real interesting stuff, and cut it for god knows what reason.
 
Dr Fallout said:
Irwin John Finster said:
Mr Fish said:
Dr Fallout said:
Mr Fish said:
Is there any part of Fallout 4 you guys genuinely enjoy and how much do you enjoy it?
Click to expand...

...

No comment.
Click to expand...
There's gotta be something. It can't possibly be completely irredeemable can it? I mean, did they at the very least have some funny jokes and easter eggs? Was there a set-piece or event that was well done (even if it was just some action piece trying to be cool)? Is the Glowing Sea at the very least atmospheric to go through?
Click to expand...
Yes it was. But there's an entire video game that looks like that and is more mature: S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Everything good about Fallout 4 comes with a price or compromise. So yes, there are good things, I even made a thread dedicated to pointing the positives out. But every positive is wasted potential. Even reasonable fans are saying "Yea...Fallout 4 has some good aspects...but can we just have Obsidian do another one?" I recognize the positives of Fallout 4 but I also believe that it's all wasted potential that would have been better off in the hands of a true RPG studio.
Click to expand...

So many cuts and wasted potential in this game. That's what really makes me hate the game, the fact that the developers were making some real interesting stuff, and cut it for god knows what reason.
Click to expand...

I just have the gut feeling that everything we thought off was cut off was due to time constraints. Hype and pressure tends to lead to a focus on getting it out as soon as possible to maximise profits, as is an AAA publisher's mindset. But only partially. I thought the true reason was that goddamn settlement system.

A larger, more complex intro. Siding with the Raiders against Preston Garvey. Working with the Minutemen. Vault 81. Diamond City's Mayor McDonough conspiracy. Goodneighbor mayor Hancock's internal conflict on his position as leader. The Combat Zone. That robot racing area. The Minutemen Castle. The Brotherhood Prydwen. Every companion quest - every single one. The Glowing Sea. Working with the Gunners. A Karma system. More base weapons. Memory Den quests. Varied endings with proper slides and a post-ending world with consequences. All cut in favour of a half-functional settlement building system.

Changing it into a half-assed Borderlands halfway because they realised they focused on the settlements for too long. Like a college student who realised he studied the wrong chapter for the exam tomorrow, and having to rush the notes of the correct chapter.
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
Dr Fallout said:
Irwin John Finster said:
Mr Fish said:
Dr Fallout said:
Mr Fish said:
Is there any part of Fallout 4 you guys genuinely enjoy and how much do you enjoy it?
Click to expand...

...

No comment.
Click to expand...
There's gotta be something. It can't possibly be completely irredeemable can it? I mean, did they at the very least have some funny jokes and easter eggs? Was there a set-piece or event that was well done (even if it was just some action piece trying to be cool)? Is the Glowing Sea at the very least atmospheric to go through?
Click to expand...
Yes it was. But there's an entire video game that looks like that and is more mature: S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Everything good about Fallout 4 comes with a price or compromise. So yes, there are good things, I even made a thread dedicated to pointing the positives out. But every positive is wasted potential. Even reasonable fans are saying "Yea...Fallout 4 has some good aspects...but can we just have Obsidian do another one?" I recognize the positives of Fallout 4 but I also believe that it's all wasted potential that would have been better off in the hands of a true RPG studio.
Click to expand...

So many cuts and wasted potential in this game. That's what really makes me hate the game, the fact that the developers were making some real interesting stuff, and cut it for god knows what reason.
Click to expand...

I just have the gut feeling that everything we thought off was cut off was due to time constraints. Hype and pressure tends to lead to a focus on getting it out as soon as possible to maximise profits, as is an AAA publisher's mindset. But only partially. I thought the true reason was that goddamn settlement system.

A larger, more complex intro. Siding with the Raiders against Preston Garvey. Working with the Minutemen. Vault 81. Diamond City's Mayor McDonough conspiracy. Goodneighbor mayor Hancock's internal conflict on his position as leader. The Combat Zone. That robot racing area. The Minutemen Castle. The Brotherhood Prydwen. Every companion quest - every single one. The Glowing Sea. Working with the Gunners. A Karma system. More base weapons. Memory Den quests. Varied endings with proper slides and a post-ending world with consequences. All cut in favour of a half-functional settlement building system.

Changing it into a half-assed Borderlands halfway because they realised they focused on the settlements for too long. Like a college student who realised he studied the wrong chapter for the exam tomorrow, and having to rush the notes of the correct chapter.
Click to expand...
Wait, what? There's that much stuff that got cut? What the fuck? Well, they said that for DLC's they were going to gauge fan requests but I'd say they should work on getting all of that stuff back into the game and 'not' put it behind a paywall.
 
So, I just realized something while browsing the forums. The combat zone. Back in oblivion they had the arena and they couldn´t put something like that in this game?

Shameful.
 
The biggest problem with Fallout 4 is that it does nothing original and the games it ripped off did those things better.

The fact that mass audiences can't see this, or actively embrace it, is incomprehensible to me.
 
mrchaos said:
So, I just realized something while browsing the forums. The combat zone. Back in oblivion they had the arena and they couldn´t put something like that in this game?

Shameful.
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Your hard-earned money will likely buy this as DLC in the near future.
 
TheSnake said:
MercenarySnake said:
No that'll be the Sims DLC with loads of couches, paintings, walls, floors, mannequins, skeletons, locked fridges with adoptable ghoul kids, and more decorative assets.
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The sad thing is that you're probably right.
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It could be a possibility, I wish they'd get it over with and shit out their first DLC. Wouldn't it just be a kick in the head if they released a very good DLC?
 
I really am curious how Bethesda is going to react going forward to some of the consistent criticisms of Fallout 4. While Bethesda will earn their share of plaudits and awards, it's not as though the praise of their latest effort has been uniform or unblemished and as much as we deride Bethesda's priorities or execution, the actual people making the games want to make even better games than their last effort and they do pay attention to both criticism and other games. It's not as though they didn't learn from some of the criticisms of Fallout 3, specifically they appear to have responded to "combat is poor", "the BoS is unrealistically goodie-goodie", "what on earth do these people eat or drink", and a few others.

I suspect they'll respond to a bunch of the criticisms of the dialogue wheel, most notably that it gives no real way of telling what you're going to say when you pick an option and that most of the options are just different ways of saying yes (possibly they'll come up with a way to say more than four things.) I'm really curious whether they care about people put off by how you're not really playing your character, you're playing Bethesda's character, and how people are concerned with the lack of alternative solutions to problems (and how the overall emphasis of the game on killing and looting.)

Game development is after all a series of trade-offs between features you would like to add, and there were probably all sorts of good ideas left on the cutting room floor during triage, but well-elucidated criticism can affect developer priorities going forward.
 
I doubt they plan on changing the dialogue wheel or the
"[ ]What? (I'm asking you a question then saying yes)
[ ]Sarcastic (Yes with a hint of sarcasm)
[ ]No way (I'm saying no but I'll have to do it anyways)
[ ]Hell yeah (Kissing the NPC's ass and saying yes)".

Lets face it they've already said how their audience they want to cater to is the people who "want to skip through the dialogue to shoot them in the head".
 
I think you could do a lot with either full dialogue or just more descriptive terms, and you could double the number of dialogue options with the existing framework just by adding a "hold down a shoulder button" option to bring up 4 new ones.

I mean, pretty much everybody rags on Fallout 4's dialogue system, don't they? It's not like they're going to leave it exactly the same going forward when it was experimental to begin with. Even little things like "replace the question option with a submenu of different questions" would be simple and would help.
 
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I wouldn't want just four options or having to hold down another key just to see more options. Just my opinion but I would like to see atleast 5-6 options and skill checks as well and in list form like Fallout 1 and 2 not this silly dialogue wheel clunky interface. I'm sure it would be too complex though for people who just want to head into combat without the "burden" of reading dialogue.
 
PossibleCabbage said:
the actual people making the games want to make even better games than their last effort and they do pay attention to both criticism and other games.
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I very much believe this. As an office drone myself I'm fully aware that while I may want to do a great job that I'm still confined by the boundaries set by people at the top. I don't think the devs at Bethesda were or are unaware of what FO4 is, but I think a lot of it's shortcomings stem from making the best of a bad situation created by suits who only look at what will move units.
 
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