It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down.

[Ilosar]

It's kind of what Metacritic user scores do, honestly. Hate on games that its cool to hate, and ape games it's cool to like. Or that one time when a Russian youtuber got his fans to bomb Company of Heroes 2 into a 2 score because it showed atrocities the Red Army actually did despite the game definitely not being a broken mess.

I've watched the video and while he sounded very butthurt, he did have some good points. I doubt that "scorched earth" meant burning houses with your own civilians inside. Or that every german soldier wore the ROA/Vlasov armband, making them all into Russian Liberation Army that speaks German.

Even you have to admit those were some weird design choices.

With how ridiculously callous Stalin and his cronies were towards their own population in all respects, I don't have much difficulty believing that evacuation policies back when the Soviets were getting spanked didn't include a full check for civilians. The armband was a bit weird, but the voiceover for the German units in multiplayer make it very clear these guys are nazis, hurling racial slurs at the Soviets even chance they get. My own biggest pet peeve was how the Red Army apparently still shot retreating soldiers at the Battle of Berlin, which is weird indeed.

But anyway, that certainly doesn't mean the game should be given the cascade of 0s it got. Historical inaccuracies for the sake of flavor is not exactly rare in video games, just look at freaking Total War. Yet no one bombs them for just that.

It's just a clear case where Metacritic user scores can be enormously skewed by a bunch of butthurt people tossing 0s. So on top of being a self-selecting sample, it's one that often comes with a heavy initial bias to boot. Statistically, Metacritic is more or less hopeless. The only valuable user reviews are usually the ''mixed'' ones.

 

[Dr Fallout]

It's kind of what Metacritic user scores do, honestly. Hate on games that its cool to hate, and ape games it's cool to like. Or that one time when a Russian youtuber got his fans to bomb Company of Heroes 2 into a 2 score because it showed atrocities the Red Army actually did despite the game definitely not being a broken mess.

I've watched the video and while he sounded very butthurt, he did have some good points. I doubt that "scorched earth" meant burning houses with your own civilians inside. Or that every german soldier wore the ROA/Vlasov armband, making them all into Russian Liberation Army that speaks German.

Even you have to admit those were some weird design choices.

With how ridiculously callous Stalin and his cronies were towards their own population in all respects, I don't have much difficulty believing that evacuation policies back when the Soviets were getting spanked didn't include a full check for civilians. The armband was a bit weird, but the voiceover for the German units in multiplayer make it very clear these guys are nazis, hurling racial slurs at the Soviets even chance they get. My own biggest pet peeve was how the Red Army apparently still shot retreating soldiers at the Battle of Berlin, which is weird indeed.

But anyway, that certainly doesn't mean the game should be given the cascade of 0s it got. Historical inaccuracies for the sake of flavor is not exactly rare in video games, just look at freaking Total War. Yet no one bombs them for just that.

It's just a clear case where Metacritic user scores can be enormously skewed by a bunch of butthurt people tossing 0s. So on top of being a self-selecting sample, it's one that often comes with a heavy initial bias to boot. Statistically, Metacritic is more or less hopeless. The only valuable user reviews are usually the ''mixed'' ones.

Which retreating soldiers? The Germans or their own?

 

[Taskeen]

I do agree that there are people that troll bomb some games on Metacritic, obviously since one doesn't even need to own the game. Although, I've heard of, and don't know if its confirmed, of companies actually hiring groups of people to post all positives.

I hadn't heard of that Company of Heroes thing. Usually history games leave out the dark side of all the Nations, like America's dark side - I have lots of WW2 history books/memoirs/movies told from all sides. Back when I played it they actually let you play as any side in a full campaign (American, British, German, Russian, etc.). I think Combat Mission is far superior as a WW2 strat game anyways, but anywho...

With Fallout 4, there probably was some initially trolling going on, but overall I think the scores are fairly accurate since the scores that are between 3 and 7 do point out the actual issues and changes with the game, often comparing either Fallout 3, New Vegas, the classics, or a mix of those.

 

[Ilosar]

Which retreating soldiers? The Germans or their own?

Their own. Company of Heroes has a game mechanic where you can order individual squads to leg it back to HQ. In the campaign, if you use it while a Commissar is present, he will shoot the squad as soon as he sees them. I can get that in the early days of the war or Stalingrad, but when the Red Army is within sight of the Reichstag? Come on.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Which retreating soldiers? The Germans or their own?

Their own. Company of Heroes has a game mechanic where you can order individual squads to leg it back to HQ. In the campaign, if you use it while a Commissar is present, he will shoot the squad as soon as he sees them. I can get that in the early days of the war or Stalingrad, but when the Red Army is within sight of the Reichstag? Come on.

Hah, they did that and worse! Many soldiers who met up with the Americans were put on suspicion with many going to the gulags in the fear that they saw too much good living conditions.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Which retreating soldiers? The Germans or their own?

Their own. Company of Heroes has a game mechanic where you can order individual squads to leg it back to HQ. In the campaign, if you use it while a Commissar is present, he will shoot the squad as soon as he sees them. I can get that in the early days of the war or Stalingrad, but when the Red Army is within sight of the Reichstag? Come on.

A lot of it is bullshit though, this was not really a common practise in the Red Army. It happend, yes. But so did it with the Germans. It really depends on the conditions. Soldiers leaving their positions without orders? That would lead to punishments, very often to serve under penal battalions, clearing minefields, leading front assaults and the like. Not even the Sovietunion had THAT many soldiers so that they would kill everyone, because they panicked. Commanders and Generals would retreat sometimes or cancel attacks if necessary. This shoot the deserters and send their families to the Gulags! Is extremly dramatised and exagerated.

What's actually really true, is the horrorible conditions that returning soldiers had often to endure. Veterans with PTSD or suffering from other mental issues, or missing limbs and the like had a very harsh time in the Sovietunion. And POWs have been treated after the war very often like deserters. So they got no compensation or anything from the government.

 

[Akratus]

 

[Crni Vuk]

I would so love to slap them for some of their comments though ...

What do they mean "modern" vs "classic". Since when is it modern to turn something into a shooter? Since when are shooters actually modern really? Is Quake more modern than Fallout 1? Is Doom more modern than Diablo 1? Would Eye of the Beholder be considered modern today?

It's at least as shitty like saying, this thing has to be next-gen! At least in my eyes.

Fallout to the masses now is a fucking shooter. That's it. An FPS with light RPG elements thrown in it. What Bethesda did was NOT(!) a modernisation. It was a simple shift. Like from one style to the other. Water colours are not more modern than Oilpaintings. It's a choice in style. Modernisation would be comparing Wasteland 2 with Fallout 1. THIS is how you could modernize a game. A modernisation would be a change from Fallout 1 to Silent Storm. Chosing a 3D engine, improving the turn based combat, the gameplay. Not changing it from Top down to First Person. Changing Civilisation or Sim City to a first person shooter, would not be a modernisation.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Randy Pitchford lying about Colonial Marines has forever ruined the name Randy when it comes to video games, so I just can't take that video seriously from the start.

 

[MercenarySnake]

Haha found this over at the Codex:

They post some pretty funny stuff over there.

 

[TorontoReign]

Haha found this over at the Codex:
View attachment 2470
They post some pretty funny stuff over there.

I lurk there quite a bit. It is THE place to go for good opinions about RPG's and classic games like Fallout.

 

[Avallach]

Haha found this over at the Codex:
View attachment 2470
They post some pretty funny stuff over there.

I lurk there quite a bit. It is THE place to go for good opinions about RPG's and classic games like Fallout.

Like you said, the place is very good for some in-depth info or reviews about actual RPGs. Although its users seem to be quite more toxic.

If Bethesda fans think NMA is the spawn of satan, then they'll be terrified at the sight of RPGCodex.

 

[Crni Vuk]

The moment they get to the Codex, this is what happens to die hard Beth fans:

Such vast, is the power of the Codex, to anyone, who's not paptised by the fire of true RPGs!

To be fair, NMAers only survive trough the sheer power and protection of the glittering gem of hatred, without it, we could not even type the URL in to the browser.

Haha found this over at the Codex:
View attachment 2470
They post some pretty funny stuff over there.

I lurk there quite a bit. It is THE place to go for good opinions about RPG's and classic games like Fallout.

NM ... A ... the Or ... der ... ?

 

[MercenarySnake]

The moment they get to the Codex, this is what happens to die hard Beth fans:

Such vast, is the power of the Codex, to anyone, who's not paptised by the fire of true RPGs!

To be fair, NMAers only survive trough the sheer power and protection of the glittering gem of hatred, without it, we could not even type the URL in to the browser.

Haha found this over at the Codex:
View attachment 2470
They post some pretty funny stuff over there.

I lurk there quite a bit. It is THE place to go for good opinions about RPG's and classic games like Fallout.

NM ... A ... the Or ... der ... ?

They're harsh over there to Bethesda fans. What do those guys have to do to get that Bethestard title? Sounds like they must of done something pretty bad to deserve it.

 

[Ilosar]

See, while I can bask in the glory of the whole glittering gem of hatred shtick we have here, the Codex puts me off. Immensely. I like old-school RPGs, but I also like the more modern forms that Bioware, CD Projeckt and the like do, and I don't feel any shame over it, nor feel a bit like a ''lesser'' RPG fan for it. And it seems that for this reason alone I could never belong on the Codex. Too much shitposting, too much casual elitism, too much of a fixation for the Infinity Engine as God's own gift to gaming, too many people thinking their tastes lord over everyone else's, too much dramatic BS like what happened over Pillars of Eternity and the 4(?) site reviews because some admins were salty that people dared like the game that they didn't.

Anyway, enough about that. But Bethesda fans are far from the only ones who cannot stomach the Codex.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Don't worry, they are deep down just as hypocritical as we are

Don't forget, as far as some of the Codexer goes, we are Bethesda fans too!

 

[TheRippaMan]

I'm a codexer, fall under the alias CrawlingDead. I like it. I think most people get the false impression that everything is to be taken literally there. There are a lot of great posts, most of which aren't meant to be taken literally. You got to have thick-skin, which is why Bethfans stay away. They piss on the site because they think everyone there has some intense hatred for Bethesda titles -- no, they just don't have a problem treating their games like shit and joking about it.

 

[Ilosar]

I'm a codexer, fall under the alias CrawlingDead. I like it. I think most people get the false impression that everything is to be taken literally there. There are a lot of great posts, most of which aren't meant to be taken literally. You got to have thick-skin, which is why Bethfans stay away. They piss on the site because they think everyone there has some intense hatred for Bethesda titles -- no, they just don't have a problem treating their games like shit and joking about it.

That's fine, but personally I don't want to have to differenciate between the shitposting and the serious threads all the time. I don't find it cool to be almost constantly negative for the sheer lulz of it. And I do feel that some posters there actually do have an intense hatred of, if not Bethesda on its own, then at least modern RPG studios and/or design tropes. As in, irrationally so, not just disliking what they do which is fine.

I'm not sure it's an issue of thick skin or not. I frequent Blizzard forums from time to the time, they're no picnic either. I just find that everytime I even try to lurk the Codex I run out of patience after less than an hour for a variety of reasons.

 

[TorontoReign]

I'm a codexer, fall under the alias CrawlingDead. I like it. I think most people get the false impression that everything is to be taken literally there. There are a lot of great posts, most of which aren't meant to be taken literally. You got to have thick-skin, which is why Bethfans stay away. They piss on the site because they think everyone there has some intense hatred for Bethesda titles -- no, they just don't have a problem treating their games like shit and joking about it.

That's fine, but personally I don't want to have to differenciate between the shitposting and the serious threads all the time. I don't find it cool to be almost constantly negative for the sheer lulz of it. And I do feel that some posters there actually do have an intense hatred of, if not Bethesda on its own, then at least modern RPG studios and/or design tropes. As in, irrationally so, not just disliking what they do which is fine.

I'm not sure it's an issue of thick skin or not. I frequent Blizzard forums from time to the time, they're no picnic either. I just find that everytime I even try to lurk the Codex I run out of patience after less than an hour for a variety of reasons.

Well, with respect, most modern AAA RPG's are shallow as shit and rather mediocre. Mass Effect and Dragon Age included. Games like Age of Decadence and Underrail are all but unheard of in mainstream gaming press and Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 are heralded as the best RPG's released this year more or less. They might express their disliking of things in a manner which offends/annoys people, but I think they are on point about several things.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

The moment they get to the Codex, this is what happens to die hard Beth fans:

Such vast, is the power of the Codex, to anyone, who's not paptised by the fire of true RPGs!

To be fair, NMAers only survive trough the sheer power and protection of the glittering gem of hatred, without it, we could not even type the URL in to the browser.

Haha found this over at the Codex:
View attachment 2470
They post some pretty funny stuff over there.

I lurk there quite a bit. It is THE place to go for good opinions about RPG's and classic games like Fallout.

NM ... A ... the Or ... der ... ?

Never been to the Codex, and out of curiosity I took a look at the forums. I LOL'd at the title of their Bethesda forum for "hiking simulators that Bethesda calls RPGs."