It's again that time of the year ... or Muslim bashing!

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Crni Vuk, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. Vergil

    Vergil Banned

    Jul 8, 2014
    You know, I don't often get along with @Crni Vuk but I will give him one thing. At least he has a wonderful grasp on the English language. Literally 30 seconds is all it takes to look up 'Moslem" and realize that it's a slightly antiquated phrase thats:
    A: Still used in places in the English world and just means the same thing as "Muslim"
    B: 'Moslem' also in Arabic means 'one who is evil and unjust' when the word is pronounced, as it is in English
    My use of the word here is a double entendre. Sorry it went over your head darling, I'd recommend checking out this website called "Google". You'd be amazed at what you can find on there with a little bit of initiative. You should maybe explore a little more on there before posting in this thread. In the meantime I can point towards some sites like Reddit or Tumblr that might be more your speed. I heard they don't mind it when you barge in 10+ pages into a thread open your mouth about topics you don't know anything about.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  2. eissa

    eissa Altáriel, Lady of Radiant Garland

    Jan 7, 2016
     
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  3. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    The investigation into the Munich shooter has revealed that Sonboly didn't have any connection to terrorist groups, though there is a possibility that he was a lone wolf. The authorities apparently believe he's either a far-right terrorist or just some random fuckin' wacko.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  4. Vergil

    Vergil Banned

    Jul 8, 2014
    Oh yea, all those Iranian, moslem, neo-nazis and white supremacists.
    He was apparently bullied by those of "turk and arab" decent in school which is why he mainly targeted them. Seems like the classic "School Shooter" type scenario, very sad.
     
  5. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    If find it very troubling how hard German media keeps bending over backwards to call him David S., while his full name is supposedly Ali Dau'd Sonboly. (Dau'd being the arabic variant of David and name of one of the islamic prophets)
     
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  6. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Damage control, they don't want to push the public opinion against moslems, when young islamist slashed four people badly in the same federal state couple of days back.
     
  7. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    The Spiegel actually wrote that he "supposedly called himself Ali".
    The Zeit does call him "Ali S.", though.
     
  8. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    I don't question the beliefs of crazy people, just wrote what the papers are writing.
     
  9. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I can't say they try "hard" to paint him as German here. We have our yellow press as well, so I wouldn't give TO much into it. There is simply not enough reliable information out right now, the investigations by the police are still going and people are kinda still ... itchy right now. The police has seen a lot of compliments for their professional behaviour though.

    It will take weeks if not months to get a clear picture and I am sure that we will see now all sorts of political shows and debates poping up blaming everything from social media, guns, to ego shooters, the goats and the moon again for this. And we might not even come to a real solution and just lots of open questions. That's simply how it goes. Much easier to say, ego shooters did it! Or to shout, we need stricter gun laws in Germany! Instead to say ... yeah crazy people are like forces of nature and there is no 100% secure protection. As Hass said so nicely,
    And that's always shitty for people. Particularly popular politicans. I would actually like to see people taking a step back for once, and actually comment on the fact that the last amok shooting/scenario on this scale was from 2009!

    What I find a lot more worrysome is how just a couple of hours latter our right wing populists had a field day. And at least one of them, AfD-spokesperson Christian Lüth, even removed his tweet after more information have been released to the public. And a lot of people immediately had this image of religion as motivation in their mind and the fear that we would see even more attacks. This is a very dangerous situation in my opinion when people already have a clear target, before ANY investigation has been done. I can only imagine that if real terrorists would strike right now, our society would face a lot of serious issues. Fear and agression would take over and we would have months of endless debates, what ever if we should do something against muslims or if we should get tighter laws, more surveilance and all that. And that's something I find troubling. Many of my friends are muslims, and I work a lot with childrens who believe in Islam. Growing up in a culture that fears your religion, is not a pleasure.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  10. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Oh shit, he has bought his 9mm Glock from Czech Republic or Slovakia through the interwebz according to the German investigators. We've had our legislative tightened up already since one of the Charlie Hebdo attackers got Sa vz. 58 tracked back to us, so this is not good.
     
  11. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Мутанты не допускаются

    Nov 22, 2009
    It's stuff like this that we need the EU for. Common rules for the European area. I see Czech and Slovakia, Slovenia, the Balkans, etc. and yes, Greece too, as parts of Europe. They're not gonna get fixed by isolating them. And illegal arms trade needs to be curbed, it could get a lot worse then this incident.
     
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  12. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Yeah, but half of Europe is on it's way of dividing everyone and nationalism again. And then everyone wonders why the smaller nations get constantly screwed over by the big players.
     
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  13. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    And who's fault is that?
    The Left wing. Its time to stop mocking and dismissing people's not unreasonable views. Here's an example. A couple of years ago, people wanted mass migration to end. They were shouted down as racists and bigots and scum. Now these very people are nationalists. This would not have happened if the left wing had at least sympathised with them.
    The left wing is furthering its own demise by discarding, mocking and demonising peoples genuine concerns. Instead of listening to UKIP supporters, and activeley trying to help them, the left wing just left them to get even more angry. This has resulted in UKIP almost becoming the third party in the House of Commons and similar things are happening in other countries.
    Its causing a worrying rise of the far right.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
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  14. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    You mean the left made Ukip? Or is the left writing the populist bullshit for our AfD when they tweet again their racist and anti european shit? Don't get me wrong. I am not very fond of the extreme left. But if someone like Petry, a very important figure in the AfD denies the effects of global warming ... then I am not sure what the left has to do with it. That ... idiot of a politican has even studied chemistry.
    You know, I am not the biggest fan of Lesch I don't think that he is some special scientist, but he is a respected astrophysicist in Germany. And the picture he paints of the future for the next 100 years, isn't really stellar. We are worried about a few refugees while ignoring the elephant in the room. The effects on Europe from Global warming for example, or our capitalistic system with a huge emphasis on individualism, which is bullshit when you look at the resources and how much we waste just to keep our standard of living.

    Seriously, when you look at the numbers alone, it's straggering. Where 30% of the world consumed up to 40% of the resources. And it doesn't look like that will slow down any time soon, even though if we want to make changes, we would have to do them now. Reforming our industries, slowing down on pollution and better redistribution of wealth.

    There will be a period when all the Oil, or most of it, is gone, but the new stuff to replace it, isn't there yet. And this transition will be a huge problem. And then it won't be about migration anymore or islam or what ever petty problem we see today. Because our behaviour, OUR behaviour, here in the west, our standard and our way of life, will have to change. And it won't be anymore a question of can we do it, but one where we HAVE to do it.
     
  15. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    From what I've heard it was a real gun, converted to theatre prop ("deactivated") and sold legally. Then it was bought by criminals and reactivated using new parts.

    It's a similar process to what else is also common: buying alarm pistols and converting those to shoot real ammo. If you shoot them too often, they'll usually blow up in your hand, but for quick hold ups or assassinations, that's plenty.
    Except all proposals from the EU tend to wholely ignore the actual issue. The current proposal (launched by a british MEP) will be voted on in september. As usual when laws are written by tards who don't understand what they talk about, the suggestions are vague and totally ineffective in combatting real crime.
    Instead, it's going for the feel good effect of "see, we're doing something to protect the people!" (nevermind that it will have no effect whatsoever on crime and will totally buttfuck millions of legal gun owners).
     
  16. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    You gotta admit though Crni that the left wing has exacerbated populist sentiment due to their dismissive and mocking attitude to people's concerns.
    I used to be pro gun control until I read these, and now I am sort of undecided on the issue.

     
  17. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    The difference between Switzerland and the US for example is that Switzerland is not a rotten shithole without perspective. The Swiss are filthy rich. They don't need to commit crimes.
    Also, swiss people convicted of a felony can't buy (all) guns, as that would revoke your Waffenerwerbsschein.
    Carrying firearms is allowed, but only if you can ascertain that you need to carry to protect yourself, others or things, and you have to pass a test.
    Switzerland doesn't have a "gun culture" like the US, where they're all gung ho about their guns and think that there's a rapist out for your family or King George who wants to raise taxes on your tea around every corner. They have guns and a militia because they want to remain independent. Guns are a tool for that, not a power fantasy straight out of Death Wish.
    Go to Zürich and you won't see any goddamn mall ninjas with a billion guns on them. Why? Because Switzerland is not a civil warzone, like some people in the US apparently think.
     
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  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Well, @Doomsdayprepper the extreme left and the right wing populists are made for each other. There is no doubt about it. However, I am not sure if we talk about the same groups here. Becuse i have absolutely no qualms with those that want affordable healthcare, easy access to education and fair wages. Those things have been once tunes sung about our socialist party the SPD, but since they did nothing but implementing a neo-liberal and capitalist policy during their run, people turned away from them. The SPD, hast lost people that voted for them for the last 40 years! And in truth, our left wing, Die Linke, is what the SPD once was. So there is politically speaking a lot of confusion going on. The AfD for example started as a pure anti-euro party, geting to extreme neo-liberal politics and now they are on full drive in becoming an xenophobic, right wing populist party with some antisemitism thrown in. What speaks for the stupidity of some voters, is the fact that the AfD seriously proposes the idea that people which dependn on social security shouldn't get the right to vote ... yet, a substantial number of their voters and supporters ... are on welware. And this is something that often leaves me wondering. Why people vote against their interests, in fear of migrants.

    But as I said, don't get the idea that I agree with everything the left is doing or saying. Their idea that gender is a social construct or that a clash of different cultures doesn't lead to issues. You would have to be a lunatic to not adress and recognize the issues that come from it. When the Arabian and Western cultures meet for example. However, Europe had for the last 70 years a Muslim minority. And it is not a new thing. What is new, is that you can get an incredible amount of voters by blaming them. And what makes it even more effective, is that facts are mixed with populism. As it can be seen with Munich and the recent attack. It didn't took them even a couple of hours before they tweeted "Damn Merkel! Her Politiks makes us less save! Vote AfD!" or something. And that is something that I really don't see from the left right now. Not in such a fierce and blund way.

    *About Switzerland, well
    strange that there are only 45 guns per 100 people in switzerland if the law requires everyone to own a gun.
    Also:
    Generally prohibited arms are:
    Automatic firearms such as machine guns, etc.

    You know, people always think that geting a gun in Germany would be the most difficult thing in the world. While it generally isn't easy, it's not impossible. There is simply a lot of safety and regulations attached to it, and that makes it very expensive. You can get to Schützenvereine in Germany who have shooting ranges, become a member and you will be allowed to own and shoot a gun after some time. And then you can buy a wide range of fire arms and call it your own. But let us be honest, when people talk about owning fire arms, they want it for fun. Most of the time. And I don't see ANY problem with that. This is the reason many gun owners in Germany give. They like to shoot them at the range, they like to have competitions, some like to hunt etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  19. The Lonesome Drifter

    The Lonesome Drifter First time out of the vault

    32
    Jul 16, 2016
    Immigrants who came to live in Britain from outside Europe cost the public purse nearly £120 billion over 17 years a report from 2014 showed, that WHAS JUST in Britain, before this migrant crisis.

    it seems like your main argument is ''Sheeit, it costs money to have a border'' It will cost money either way. At this moment im more worried about the future of Western civilization then the false notion that money trumps safety.

    I can assure you, allowing millions of often illiterate, 20s something men, with low IQ, and with medival values, and a crazy belife system - Will not be ''the lesser evil''

    homogeneous societies are better

    Im from Norway, and almost 100% White country, and im telling you its great.

    There is a fair volume of literature from political economy that shows homogeneous societies are better able to provide public goods and social goods. Practically speaking, this means that they're typically better able to fund things like education, healthcare, social safety nets (welfare) and public broadcasting. The logic here is that with ethnic or cultural heterogeneity typically overlaps with economic cleavages. You end up with the better off group feeling they're subsidizing "other people"; i.e., their 'national healthcare' covers people who they don't fully feel to be part of their nation. This inspires them to oppose such policies. In the US, for example, some whites feel that public healthcare, education, and welfare resources are disproportionately used by people whom they don't consider to be fully American.

    Harvard did a study. The more integrated your neighborhood, the less you voted, measurements of happiness were lowered, the less altruistic you were. Diversity is a disaster at the local level.

    upload_2016-7-24_21-21-36.png

    Except for a few rarities like Canada, one could quite easily deduce that developed countries like Britain or Sweden, contrary to popular belief, are also among the most homogenous nations. Yes there are many minorities in Britain, but on the whole the vast majority of people share a common ethnic or national identity. On the other hand, some of the most ethnically diverse countries are in Africa, Central Asia, South East Asia, and Latin America.

    Correlation is not always causation but what this map shows is that development has a high correlation between successful economic development and ethnic homogeneity. As an amateur enthusiast in developmental economics, I do certainly believe that there are other important factors that explain why a country is rich, but ethnic diversity should be taken into some account.
     
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  20. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    The thing is that building fortresses all around the globe won't protect us from the real trouble that's coming at us. What ever if we like that or not. The worlds changing. And either we accept that, or we use all the resoruces that our establishments have to stick with the old values, as how some would describe it. And still loose everything in the end, because once you have 20 milion people showing up on your borders, it's over. A mass migration of gigantic proportion. And it's not the first time in human history that something like that happend.

    I have grown up in a multicultural environment. And I see my self as European citizens. So I don't share this sentient that it's such a huge problem. Of course there is no such thing as "integration". But I believe we can live peacefully together, even with different cultures, if we deicde to do it. If we can agree on some common ground.

    I am not arguing against what you just said. I just don't see how ... you want to preserve this ethnicity effectively. If that is what you want. Honestly, I am not really sure at this point what you're really arguing about. In all of human history, when we look at similar situations, no nation, empire or ethnic group managed to keep their borders or power for ever. That's simply not possible. Pax Romana, Pax Britanica, Pax Americana. We, as western societies have simply reached our zenith. And that's the harsh reality. We will see a lot of changes in just a couple of decades. And pretty much any scientist, who has something to say in his field, paints a rather gray and dark picture of our future. There won't be enough resources to support this western lifestyle anymore, not for everyone. It's just not possible. Global warming will increase the issue of mass immigration. And not just from from Arabia and Africa. But also inside of Europe as well. Greece, Spain, Italy just to name a few. Many of them will be forced to leave their homes in the next 100 years when the temperatures and sea level rise. At this point, that's simply a fact when you look at the NASA and their studies. Italy is already facing a serious problem with drinking water due to the disappearing glaciers in the Alps. And they, won't be the only ones with trouble. The the future wars in the middle east will be about drinking water.

    The real question is, how are we going to deal with all of this? What kind of live do we chose? I am not saying that you're a crazy nazi you know? I am just not seeing how your rhetoric of ethnicity and border-controll is going to help us in anyway while we avoid the elephant in the room. Again, we are wasting resources on the question if the UK should take now 20 000 refugees. What will the UK do once millions of people come to their borders? Thousands of Italians, Turks, Spaniards. And if fighting them, actually doesn't solve the problem. Because they don't stop coming. You know, you can't kill millions of people just like that. But I am afraid this is the real future we are looking at. And we are doing nothing to prevent it. Or not enough at least.

    I am shocked about that people didn't saw the last 2-3 years as some kind of, wake up call that we have to change our behaviour and the way how we deal with those issues. Because once you have 100 000 of people at your borders, you're not going to stop them with a few fences, guards and border controll. You simply can't. What do people think why Germany allowed so many to enter? Because of some historic responsibilty? We had no other choice! That's the simple truth. People started to cross the Autobahn in THOUSANDS. Some day, they simply started to march, with their families and their old people. They have been fucked up of waiting in camps, transit zones, or what ever they are called, not knowing what the next day will bring. And what do we do? The same shitty mistakes like before. We let the refugees pille up in camps like in Turkey. With the hope that things will calm down. Just as we hoped it for the last 20 years. But once people decide again, that they have enough, they will again simply walk trough. This is even a point that I completely agree with the far right. Those people will be coming. The question is just, how we will deal with it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
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