I am glad you're using your German authority to make the right decisions!
It's again that time of the year ... or Muslim bashing!
- Thread starter Crni Vuk
- Start date
You do know that this is "ISIS is caused by global warming" tier logic right?
Have you ever heard of back pedaling? You claimed that Germany was more peaceful compared to the rest of Europe and also while on your high horse you asked if Germany was the only place with any decency left. Meanwhile the recent attacks prove you're just as much of a target of terrorist attacks as the rest of Europe.
Well shit, let's ignore the terrorist attacks because world wide statistics are going in the same direction they have been going in since forever. Yea of course things are always getting slightly better. This is the same logic people use to say that Obama isn't that bad. Yea, things have been getting better forever but they're not as good as they could be and just because some places in the world are doing better doesn't mean that all of the sudden all of our problems don't matter, let the killing continue. I don't get what your point here is. Should we just not doing anything about terrorist attacks because of worldwide trends?
TheGM
The voice of reason
*Cartoon uses the KKK*
Why do people keep using them. the KKK is a non entity. they got barely got over a couple thousand members and haven't been a thing in over 50 years.
Look how far people have to reach to get the supposed Christian equivalent of Islamic Terror.
Why do people keep using them. the KKK is a non entity. they got barely got over a couple thousand members and haven't been a thing in over 50 years.
Look how far people have to reach to get the supposed Christian equivalent of Islamic Terror.
Oh yeah, we have to reach sooooooooo far out to find christian terrorism. Oh wait. No we don't!
Christian Terrorism in the United States. The problem is, that what we see often as terrorism, isn't labled as religously motivated terrorism, because no sane christian would call them a part of their religion. However, when you look at it the number of people that would AGREE with the views of those terrorists, might be higher then you think. More then 40% of the population in the US believes literaly, that evolution is either a hoax, not true or just an unproven hypothesis where as they believe that angels are real and that the finall judgement will come. Curious how many of them would agree in principle, that gay people should burn if the church ruled again.
But sadly, or should I say, conveniently, there are no accurate statistics and surveys on that matter in the western world. It really doesn't take much turn a nation from a stable and sane society into a hell hole. And using religion as reason. Don't believe it?
This here is Omarska, a camp run by serbians during the civil war in the 1990s where mostly muslims have been thrown in, mostly civilians, and torture was normal. Or do we really have to talk about what the French and British forces did up to the 60s and late 70s in certain regions of the world? Ask the Algerians how France treated them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_during_the_Algerian_War_of_Independence
Elements of the French Armed Forces as well as of the opposing Algerian National Liberation Front (FLN) made use of torture during the Algerian War of Independence (1954–62), creating an ongoing public controversy. Pierre Vidal-Naquet confessed that there were " hundreds of thousands of instances of torture" by the French military in Algeria.[1] The Algerian National Liberation Front (FLN) alleged by the French to be engaged in the use of torture against pro-French and uncommitted members of the Algerian population, to justify the use of inhumanely torture (by the French).[2]
The clean western world. Good joke mate.
So naturally, during Summer you get in a relatively short time, a lot of incidents.
But, that's just what I think. It doesn't mean that it has to be true. It's a guess.
Are you familiar with the concept of proportionality? Would you think that it is sensible to spend 90% of your attention on a problem that kills not even 1% of your population?
Here is a little secret for you. The world, was always full of risks, terrorism and conflicts. And nothing we do, will change that. Germany never saw as much safety as know. There was the whole part of the cold war with a nuclear conflict right around the corner. People adjusted accordingly. There was a serious issue with left wing extremism from the RAF who killed people. Germany survived and we adjusted accordingly. The last few decades saw some serious terrorism from the neo-nazis, the NSU killing - which has still left many many many open questsions ...
The point is:
I never said we should;
Do nothing against criminal immigrants or refugees.
I never said we should;
Do nothing to counter terrorism.
I never said we should;
Open our borders to the whole world.
I never said we should;
Not try to improve things.
What we are talking about, are the correct measures. What should we do? What can we do? And what is effective? Europe has invested millions in building a fortress on their borders and very little for asylum seekers. It turns out, that was not very effective. People still crossed the borders and we had to deal with the refugees either way. And the answer to this issue is ... well we know it didn't help! So let us do more of it! And the whole reason why it is done, is to calm down the population. That's the whole reason. If you're to stuck up in your own view, that you don't realize the reality that you have in front of you. That desperate people, can't be stoped by fences, walls, guards and anything you throw at them, unless you shoot at them. Unless you kill them.
And my question now, to you, would you shoot on unarmed refugees? Or would you see that as valuable option? Like the next time we face 2 million people on our borders. And it turns out MORE fences and MORE walls and MORE ships guarding our seas hasn't prevented the people from coming. What should we do then? What would be your solution.
Christian Terrorism in the United States. The problem is, that what we see often as terrorism, isn't labled as religously motivated terrorism, because no sane christian would call them a part of their religion. However, when you look at it the number of people that would AGREE with the views of those terrorists, might be higher then you think. More then 40% of the population in the US believes literaly, that evolution is either a hoax, not true or just an unproven hypothesis where as they believe that angels are real and that the finall judgement will come. Curious how many of them would agree in principle, that gay people should burn if the church ruled again.
But sadly, or should I say, conveniently, there are no accurate statistics and surveys on that matter in the western world. It really doesn't take much turn a nation from a stable and sane society into a hell hole. And using religion as reason. Don't believe it?
This here is Omarska, a camp run by serbians during the civil war in the 1990s where mostly muslims have been thrown in, mostly civilians, and torture was normal. Or do we really have to talk about what the French and British forces did up to the 60s and late 70s in certain regions of the world? Ask the Algerians how France treated them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_during_the_Algerian_War_of_Independence
Elements of the French Armed Forces as well as of the opposing Algerian National Liberation Front (FLN) made use of torture during the Algerian War of Independence (1954–62), creating an ongoing public controversy. Pierre Vidal-Naquet confessed that there were " hundreds of thousands of instances of torture" by the French military in Algeria.[1] The Algerian National Liberation Front (FLN) alleged by the French to be engaged in the use of torture against pro-French and uncommitted members of the Algerian population, to justify the use of inhumanely torture (by the French).[2]
The clean western world. Good joke mate.
The fuck? All I am saying is, that you see more violent crimes like people shooting others during Summer, because there are more PEOPLE outside and performing activities in the open, with festivals and all that. When was the last time you saw someone running amok like in Munich or a suicide bomber when most of the days look like this:
So naturally, during Summer you get in a relatively short time, a lot of incidents.
But, that's just what I think. It doesn't mean that it has to be true. It's a guess.
I never said that.
I never said that.
I never said that.
I never said that.
Are you familiar with the concept of proportionality? Would you think that it is sensible to spend 90% of your attention on a problem that kills not even 1% of your population?
Here is a little secret for you. The world, was always full of risks, terrorism and conflicts. And nothing we do, will change that. Germany never saw as much safety as know. There was the whole part of the cold war with a nuclear conflict right around the corner. People adjusted accordingly. There was a serious issue with left wing extremism from the RAF who killed people. Germany survived and we adjusted accordingly. The last few decades saw some serious terrorism from the neo-nazis, the NSU killing - which has still left many many many open questsions ...
The point is:
I never said we should;
Do nothing against criminal immigrants or refugees.
I never said we should;
Do nothing to counter terrorism.
I never said we should;
Open our borders to the whole world.
I never said we should;
Not try to improve things.
What we are talking about, are the correct measures. What should we do? What can we do? And what is effective? Europe has invested millions in building a fortress on their borders and very little for asylum seekers. It turns out, that was not very effective. People still crossed the borders and we had to deal with the refugees either way. And the answer to this issue is ... well we know it didn't help! So let us do more of it! And the whole reason why it is done, is to calm down the population. That's the whole reason. If you're to stuck up in your own view, that you don't realize the reality that you have in front of you. That desperate people, can't be stoped by fences, walls, guards and anything you throw at them, unless you shoot at them. Unless you kill them.
And my question now, to you, would you shoot on unarmed refugees? Or would you see that as valuable option? Like the next time we face 2 million people on our borders. And it turns out MORE fences and MORE walls and MORE ships guarding our seas hasn't prevented the people from coming. What should we do then? What would be your solution.
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That's not what you said at all.
"It's summer. A lot of people are out in the open. I know this sounds silly, but I think the weather makes people a bit ... crazy right now. It's fucking hot, but it rains every second day. People are irritated. And just as I write this ... it rains again. The fuck.
Even I feel like I want to punch someone in the face when I am using the Subway while it's full of people, and you know it when someone's not shovering regularly ... I mean not long ago an old fart was screaming around and yelling at everyone because the window was just slighly open. Or something. No clue."
You could, ya know, stop letting them in.
Look I'm pretty much done talking with you because looking at your post I see you've fucking recycled like 90% of it, asking the exact same questions I've already answered multiple times. You've posted the same youtube video you've already posted (which is hilarious since you refuse the watch anyone elses), you talk about how Neo-Nazism is this serious issue despite showing no statistics and there being no major attacks that are as well known as the Islamic attacks (and trust me there would be, the media creams themselves when they think it's a White guy doing one of these attacks) and you're just going to call me a nazi, appeal to people's emotions with elaborate strawmen and then start it all over again. It's fucking boring.
You cheeky fuck. I recognize this question from that Petry interview and I'm not gonna make the same mistake she did. Yes, absolutely as a final option if all else really fails than the people who are running at the people with guns don't stop when told to and threaten to swarm and over take them then violence is inevitable.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
The suicide bomber's phone contained a video pledging allegiance to ISIS (or something along those lines, I'm to lazy to google it), so it was a lone wolf. Anyway, no official coordinated terrorist attacks in Germany, yay?
/Edit
Because they're iconic? This is like the "why do you use the holocaust?" thing from earlier, they just represent racism in the Western world.
/Edit
Napoleon and Napoleon III are two very different people.
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TheGM
The voice of reason
It's silly though. I know why they do it but why even bother. at some point I expect they are going to start busting out The Spanish Inquisition, and proclaim the west and Christianity are just as bad....600 years ago.
Throatpunch
Banned
History is important
Yeah, that was one of the other points. Maybe it does? Do you know that it doesn't? Even psychos and depressive people have their breaking point. But I agree. It was really just speculation. The other reason why we might see more viollence right now, is that there are more people out in the open. During the Octoberfest viollent crime in Munich is rising as well.
YOu keep that repeating all the time. But you don't really outline how you want to stop them from coming.
You could, ya know, stop letting them in.
.
Dude. Look. The EU LITERALY decided to let people die. They STOPED(!) Mare Nostrum.
Operation Mare Nostrum (after the ancient Roman name for the Mediterranean: "Our Sea") was a year-long naval and air operation commenced by the Italian government on October 18, 2013 to tackle the increased immigration to Europe during the second half of 2013 and migratory ship wreckages off Lampedusa.[1] During the operation at least 150,000 migrants, mainly from Africa and the Middle East, arrived safely to Europe.[2] The operation ended on 31 October 2014[3] and was superseded by Frontex's Operation Triton.
The effect of it? More people died because they drowned. Has it had nay effect on the refugees? No. The effect was. Zero. Nada. Ziich. People still packed their stuff and crossed the mediterranean and any other border. The reason why I am repeating my self is because I want to hear from you what we should do with 400 000 or 800 000 people showing up on our borders who do this:
What would you want the guards to do in such a scenario when 10 000 of people cross the fences and walls like in those images?
What is your solution to that?
I know! Let us build a second fence! But this time higher!
What do you mean? She pretty much gave the same answer as you did right now ...
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I have done that over, and over, and over, and over, and over again and you've continued to completely ignore it or dismiss it because "....." and try to steer the conversation around.
Yea because it was retardedly ineffective and expensive and was only going to be temporary from the start. This doesn't change the fact that these people are easily able to get into the country once they arrive and just because some of them are stupid enough to try and come across the Mediterranean on shitty boats doesn't mean Europe not still being flooded.
What's your point here? That these people are still stupid enough to try something that's gotton loads of people killed already?
Oh Lord what a load of wank. Would you like me to cherry pick the most emotional stimulating images of children getting killed by terrorist attacks perpetrated by refugees? Please by all means let's just drop any pretense of this being a factual debate and just focus on our feelings if you're going to go down this route.The reason why I am repeating my self is because I want to hear from you what we should do with 400 000 or 800 000 people showing up on our borders who do this:
What would you want the guards to do in such a scenario when 10 000 of people cross the fences and walls like in those images?
What is your solution to that?
Boot them right back onto the over side of that fence. They get violent and refuse to comply you remind them that you're armed for a reason.
Well Israel is certainly doing well off with it's giant concrete walls compared to this shitty chain length fence you've shown in your picture.
She pussy footed around the issue (to be fair the interviewer was doing the exact same thing you're doing now and asking a loaded question specifically made to make us look evil). Yea, if it came down to it'd I'd be a-ok with actually using the border security to it's fullest extent.
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Dr Fallout
Centurion
Meh this debate has fallen apart. Both you guys are using emotion.
valcik
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
This is basicaly the same argument as in Brexit thread, with some phrases repeated literally. Crni the time sink just cannot admit that refugees are lured by willkommenskultur and welfare system, since he would have to admit that he's partialy responsible for those people drowned as one of active proponents of this failing system. What's the most sad is a fact that this immigration policy is not sustainable in long run a has to be changed in near future anyway. 
Yeah? Shit man. I guess those people must have known about this Wilkommenskultur before the Germans even knew it ... What's next? Merkel invited them all! And the cycle of populism continues. I think it is time to admit it, no reason to lie anymore. Yes, we Germans started the war in Iraq 2001, so that ISIS fucks up Syra because?. We tricked the americans with an conspiracy into the war so we can exploit the refugees to overake the European Union which will be renamed in the Fourth Reich.
You better start learning Arabian right now, because I am not like those typical movie villains explaining his plan before it succeeded.
Try that in a court as defence. Sorry I couldn't help him when he was bleeding to death, nature killed him. I guess it is true what Stalin the fucker said. Kill one person, and it is murder. Kill millions and it is a statistic. No one's responsible for anything it seems. As long we can exploit the shit out of african nations. Our borders are open for resources, not people.
So you have no problem in investing millions in something that is moraly and ethically questionable, eventually highly ineffective building Europe into a fortress, which can't protect EVERY part of it's border, but canceling Mare Nostrum is alright, because to rescue people is ineffective. Mind you, I didn't even said what should hapen to those people, you could still send them back, but at least you rescued them.
You better start learning Arabian right now, because I am not like those typical movie villains explaining his plan before it succeeded.
Yeah well, without the intention to attack you, but sorry that I think about refugees and migrants as people and not just numbers or as cattle. So posting a child is already pandering to emotions? I mean com on ... at which point is empathy with people a mistake or wrong. That doesn't mean that you can't make rational decisions. Many of the refugees are children, teenagers and females. That's simply a fact. Some figures say 22% of the 800 000 Syran refugees that arrived at Europe to be children and 18% of them females. I mean what should have Germany done with those 800 000 people? That's the whole question. We left nations like Italy, Spain and Greece alone for decades due to the Dublin Regulation which was very convenient for a nation like Germany, which had no borders close to the mediterranean or Turkey.
Yeah man! Rescuing people is retardely ineffective! Seriously, what went wrong in your live that you lack empathy with certain groups and people on a such basic level? You know, I never understood this argumentation ... We preach values that we hold so dear, like human dignity, human rights, freedom and liberity for people. But when you bring it up, you're met with, but we are not killing them! It's the sea! You know! Right.
Try that in a court as defence. Sorry I couldn't help him when he was bleeding to death, nature killed him. I guess it is true what Stalin the fucker said. Kill one person, and it is murder. Kill millions and it is a statistic. No one's responsible for anything it seems. As long we can exploit the shit out of african nations. Our borders are open for resources, not people.
That people which decide to make such dangerous journes probably won't stop at fences. No matter how high they are how dangerous the guards look.
So as long as those people are just numbers on your news ticker, it's alright? Oh my! Sorry that I dared to post images of people. Human beings. Remember that. Human. Beings. That's what we're talking about here. Around 20% of them are children.
Yeah, well Europe is a just a tiny bit bigger then Israel though. And so far, it seems that the nations can't even agree on one plan on how to protect the borders. Everyone want's to keep them out, but no one really wants to pay for it. Didn't really bothered anyone as long it was just an Italian problem.
So you have no problem in investing millions in something that is moraly and ethically questionable, eventually highly ineffective building Europe into a fortress, which can't protect EVERY part of it's border, but canceling Mare Nostrum is alright, because to rescue people is ineffective. Mind you, I didn't even said what should hapen to those people, you could still send them back, but at least you rescued them.
Yeah right. I see. So it's not the answer it's the question. I understand. You're the victim here. Totally. Who's pussy footing around the difficult questions? If you continue with an agressive policy, then you HAVE to ask your self what you will do when the people don't turn around. Pretty simple really. Otherwise, it's just empty threats. If you think that your answer might make you look evil, then you should ask your self why.
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Antiwarprofallout
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Islam is a bad ideology, so is Judaism and Christianity. No I didn't say those two are bad too to justify it, I said it to keep islamophiles from saying it to justify Islam.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-balaka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_fascism#Examples_of_clerical_fascism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Council_of_Nagaland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity
TheGM
The voice of reason
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-balaka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_fascism#Examples_of_clerical_fascism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Council_of_Nagaland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity
Pulling pretty hard there bud.
Got to me laugh though. I'll give you that.
No true Christian would commit acts of terror?
TheGM
The voice of reason
Well yeah...
Christianity was built on peace, love, and turning the other cheek because a Jewish Carpenter came back as Zombie. When Christian Nut jobs want to start justifying their lunacy they have to start quoting the Old Testament, the old book of angry Jewish god that the new testament states it is trying to fix.
valcik
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Of course they do know, that's why Denmark passed new law reducing the welfare support from ridiculous 11.000 DKK to less ridiculous 6000 DKK last year, which is still good bait for economical migrants nonetheless. The same goes for Germany, where new conception of immigration laws have been proposed and accepted recently, reducing welfare benefits and tightening obligations for migrants. Perhaps someone started realizing that the system is flawed and broken, what do you think?
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/daenemark-weniger-geld-fuer-asylbewerber-a-1049949.html
edit: This is not populism, you dork.
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Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
So does Christian terrorism only count when you want it to count or is it that people killing or persecuting others in the name of God isn't Christian terrorism?