It's again that time of the year ... or Muslim bashing!

That someone should be carefull to mention tradition about a nation that had some very close ties to fascism and the Hitlerregime. And the communist system wasn't that stellar either in Hungary. A lof of their people fought for freedom and liberty. But you have also an equal amount of people that supported communism and the prosecution of dissidents. Who knows how many of them dissapeared in the cellar of some hungarian police station. And all of those things are just 1 maybe 2 generations away. There are still some survivors left.

I mean history matters. It shows that all kinds of people can comitt unbelievable and atrocious crimes. No one here denies that rape is a very bad crime and that the rapist should face a trial and punishment. But to act like Hungarians would be some kind of saints in this matter? Doesn't the christian bible say, those without sin can cast the first stone? And Do not judge, and you will not be judged.

The way how the Roma are treated in Hungary is also very telling.

When I am thinking about, it is really a bad idea to send ANY refugees to Hungary.
 
That someone should be carefull to mention tradition about a nation that had some very close ties to fascism and the Hitlerregime. And the communist system wasn't that stellar either in Hungary. A lof of their people fought for freedom and liberty. But you have also an equal amount of people that supported communism and the prosecution of dissidents. Who knows how many of them dissapeared in the cellar of some hungarian police station. And all of those things are just 1 maybe 2 generations away. There are still some survivors left.

I mean history matters. It shows that all kinds of people can comitt unbelievable and atrocious crimes. No one here denies that rape is a very bad crime and that the rapist should face a trial and punishment. But to act like Hungarians would be some kind of saints in this matter? Doesn't the christian bible say, those without sin can cast the first stone? And Do not judge, and you will not be judged.

The way how the Roma are treated in Hungary is also very telling.

When I am thinking about, it is really a bad idea to send ANY refugees to Hungary.

Can we distance ourselves from discussing the Nazis? Because criticising refugees and mass migration is not Nazism. Nazism is not related to the topic we are discussing.

I also think you should stop using cartoons and huge pictures of Adolf Hitler in your arguments; but if you insist please include spoiler tags.
 
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So around 250 women are sexually assaulted every year in Germany.
I was referring to Slovakia, not Germany. Anyway, such a high number of sexually motivated attacks on old women is not good, no matter who has committed it.

That someone should be carefull to mention tradition about a nation that had some very close ties to fascism and the Hitlerregime.
You are really dense Crni. Slovakia was occupied by Germany for some five years, with our government and president-priest Tiso as a collaborator who was arrested and executed for treachery after the war. Also, are you aware of German units such as Abwehrguppe 218, with code name Edelweiss, operating here in Slovakia and established with single purpose to hunt down and destroy our resistance? Only complete ignorant or plain retard could call nazi occupants to be national "tradition" in occupied country. Tens of thousands Slovaks died during the occupation, either our guerrilla forces or whole villages of civilians.
 
You think nazism doesn't play a role in hungary today? Identiäre Bewegungen, Jobik party and the right wing nutjobs that support them. Yeah.
Wow, Jobik is pretty Nazi.
But I must ask, the next time you include massive Hitler pics use spoiler tags.
You are really dense Crni.
Now Now child. I bantered around with Crni last time I debated him using memes telling him to shut up (jokingly of course), but that sounds pretty malicious and there is no need.
 
@valcik yes, and lots of Serbians died as well, but that still doesn't mean the Nazi regime hasn't seen also support in Yugoslavia and Serbia. Or that I don't attack the facists of today screaming for MAKE SERBIA GREAT AGAIN. Also, I was talking about Hungary, I thought you're from there. And Hungary was a fascist regime before they have been occupied. No one denies that suffering of Slovakian people under the German rule, but not everyone was just a victim, to say that. Look up the history of jews in Slovakia, and their situation in 1941. Granted, Slovakia was nothing special during that time, Vichy France, the Netherlands, Belgium lots of teritories the Germans occupied happily complied with them. As long they didn't had to kill the jews by them self. Don't get me wrong! I am not attacking you or your ancestors or what ever. It IS history by now. But it is also not THAT far in the past that it stops to loose it's meaning. 70 years, our grandfathers might still remember it after all. The point is, ALL kinds of peole can do horrorible shit. That's all I am trying to say.
 
Okay, I still don't see any connection between our countries being occupied by German armies in the past and expected hundreds of African immigrants in the future. I don't think even proverbial guilt complex has anything to do with this, what's your point then?
 
As fun as this parody of a patriot and nationalist is, we have to be fair and mention that he is probably not representative for all of the protesters.

Okay, I still don't see any connection between our countries being occupied by German armies in the past and expected hundreds of African immigrants in the future. I don't think even proverbial guilt complex has anything to do with this, what's your point then?
That your Slovakian culture isn't inherently supperior mate.
 
As fun as this parody of a patriot and nationalist is, we have to be fair and mention that he is probably not representative for all of the protesters.
You'll find he is. He is part of the EDL, and he is not a parody. As funny as he is, that guy was being serious.
This is the organisation he is a part of:
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That your Slovakian culture isn't inherently supperior mate.
I was referring to our traditions actually, which is just a fragment of whole culture going much deeper than short period of occupation, mind you. Probably completely alienated concept for someone who've left his homeland and exchanged his culture for something else, I understand.

Back to moslems though. Since I had answered your question here, it's your turn now, so I'll repeat it - what's your proposal regarding those millions of future African refugees? Do you think that current immigration policy is sustainable in current form? Do you have some answer for this actually, or would you ignore this question as before and countinue with your far left wing extremist rants about Hitlor instead?
 
What kind of tradition though? I am genuinely curious. I can't speak for Slovakia, obviously. But my experience with Germany at least tells me that when people here talk about tradition and culture, they usually refer only to their habits and not what a culture or tradition really is, most people don't even know enough about their history and culture. Quite a lot of what we see today in Germany has almost NOTHING to do with christianity, the German culture or what ever. But people just think it does, because they feel comfortable with it.

Honestly? German culture and tradition for example has been trough out history very violent and militaristic, and no, I am not specically meaning WW2. Although the end of WW2 saw a very huge shift to pacifism and liberalism, for obvious reasons. But when you see what role militarism and the authorities had particularly before WW2 and WW1, it is not surprising why there have been so many conflicts.

I mean I am not talking about you when I say this, but I have to kinda laugh about some I know who talk about the German culture and tradition but can't even remember one single lesson from their history classes and have no fucking clue where even the German flag is coming from, can't even name you a handfull of popular German philsophers, writers or scientists. And they havn't read the bible or actually know any of the religious tenets. But obviously they know what German culture is and what makes a good christian ...

Back to moslems though. Since I had answered your question here, it's your turn now, so I'll repeat it - what's your proposal regarding those millions of future African refugees? Do you think that current immigration policy is sustainable in current form? Do you have some answer for this actually, or would you ignore this question as before and countinue with your far left wing extremist rants about Hitlor instead?
I will try to give you a detailed answer on what I would see as solution. Keep in mind though, that no one of us is an expert and thus it is more my opinion. It could very well be that there is no perfect solution.

So, here is a detailed opinion on what I what I would like to see.
First things first, I would try to seperate it in long term and short term solutions.

1. In the short term.
We have to improve the situations of those refugees and migrants that are already here and those which are on their way and will arrive here in the next months and years. They are already on their way, either trough the deserts or the sea. So it is just a question of time before we have to deal with it. Otherwise, I fear we will simply face more cases where people storm the borders not just with 300 people but with 30 000 or even 300 000. People are easier to manage when you keep them in a stable environment. And that is what we should try to aim for. If possible of course. No one's saying that we should give the refugees the most luxurious life that is possible. But clean and safe shelters, food, medical treatment and education isn't to much to ask for I think. Some of it is already under way, so things are getting better. But there is still a lot of room for improvements. There are also a lot of chances and oportunities here. If we take our time to educate them, those that decide to return, can do a lot of good things in their nations. And thus they will lower the number of refugees in the future. An investement in the long term!

Border controll is another issue that has to be tackled. We have to reach a common agreement between the EU member states, we have no common politic with migration into the EU zone. This is a huge problem! Becuse some nations like Germany and France take a lot of refugees, where as nations like Italy and Greece are left alone with their borders, where as some nations take almost zero refugeees. The way we are doing it right now is highly inefficient and it doesn't help the situation a lot. It doesn't keep the people out nor does it save their lives. It just costs us a fuck ton of money. So there is a lot of things that have to be improved here. Like I said, finding an agreement where all nations work together, and where no nation is left alone with their issue, as like how it has been done in the past with Italy, Greece and Spain should be our priority here. It is clear that we can't leave for example Italy alone with millions of refugees but we also have to make sure that they don't all just drown in the mediterranean as it fuels the propaganda of extremists.

The borders of the EU zone are fucking huge. It's unrealistic to think that we will be capable of protecting every piece of it. That's simply not possible. However we have to make sure that potentially dangerous people are keept outside. But it has to be done on a case to case basis. And we have to accept the fact that there is simply no 100% fail safe system. but Sending 10 000 people back because of 10 terrorists hiding in the crowd, will create a lot of new problems, because you might now not deal with 10 terrorists which will make their way in to Europe anyway, but also 10 000 potentially frustrated people. And I would rather worry about 10 real terorists instead of 1000 potential terrorists. It is a bit complicated and I am simplying it a lot right now. But I think you get the picture. The more we work together here and the more clear regulations we have, the easier will it be to to make decisions though and to sort out the bad apples from the good ones and dealing with those that fought for ISIS or are radicaly accordingly. I fear if we become more agressive, they will simply find othe ways to enther our borders. But hopefully we can avoid situations where refugees are send from nation to nation and back to the borders again just to end up in some camp again. Like I said, stability should be the top priority. It makes it also easier to spot the ones that make trouble.

2. Long term solutions
Those are a lot more difficult to achieve. First, we should look deeply in to why people want to come here. The two reasons are, economical stability and safety. Most people want to either improve their current situation or flee from conflicts. To change this, will take a lot of time. And that's the problem. It is touching on a lot of issues and Europe has no foreign policy. The UK is dealing with foreign policy and nations like Syra in a different way then Germany and France.

But I think a lot of things would already improve if we would do change a couple of points. And I think they could be achieved. First, no more weapons to questionable regimes and muslim nations like Qatar, Saud Arabia, Oman etc. We call those nations our allies, but honestly, it is simply to fucked up. They supply groups that openly want to fight us. How does that make sense? And we support those nations simply because the US wants to keep their military bases there. Which brings me to the second point.

We should put more preasure on the US. As European Union. Sometimes I ask my self who's the worse allie, the arabian nations or the US with their surveilance and military interventions. We should urge the US to give up their military bases in muslim nations. A lot of extremist groups see that as huge affront. They see it as occupation of their holy teritory. And many muslims think like that. And I who can blame them for it? We wouldn't accept Al Quaida in Vatican city either. Why do we have so many military bases all around the world? I don't see how it's making us any safer, it just costs us fuck ton of money and lives. If we want to keep our borders stabile and secure then we have to display more interest into the nations that are actually at our borders, like Turkey and the african states that are close to the mediterranean. Stabile neighbours means stable borders. The Roman empire has colapsed as much from the preasure outside of it's borders as much as to the preasure it experienced from the inside.

Last but not least, fair trade deals with African nations. We complain a lot about TTIP, TISA, CETA and all that trade crap. Yet we have no problem with screwing over African states and bullying some into agreeing into our contracts, even though those leave many of the African economies in a very critical situation. See the state of the chicken farmers in African states who simply can't compete with European products. They are forced to close their busisness, and as a consquence, many chose to move out of Africa. And when they decide to do something, like with taxes we threaten them with embarogs and dimplomatic preasure. We have to make sure that people stay there, and that they have a chance to actually make a living in their own nations. This means that we have to support stability, reasonable governments, and making fair deals that benefits them as much as it benefits us.

Conclussion.
Well, I think what we mainly need is patience and a clear agenda as Union where the nations agree on certain principles. Like a common basis for immigration and border controll. At least where it is possible. But time is of the essence here. The issues we see now, will only become worse. And then we might not have a chance to actually chose between the alternatives. And it will come down to very extreme measures. Particularly in 100 years, when you look the prospects of climate change where we might see mass immigration from Spain, Italy and Grece in to regions like Germany, Norway, Sweden etc. Simply because those regions will suffer less from the effects of global warming. So the most difficuilt part will be to actually get people in to thinking not just from term to term, but into 5, 10, 20 and eventually 50 years. I am pretty sure that we won't solve ALL of the issues, but I am confident that we can actually make a change now and actually write history. We have a chance to actually see the warnings, this is very unique, historically speaking. But sadly we are not making the right decisions. But the problem, is not technology. It's our behaviour.
And this is the issue I have with nationalism, populism and right wing parties, who seem to offer easy solutions and think that it could be all solved in a couple of months or maybe just a few years. But I feel that this is a problem that will take DECADES before we actually get a real stable outcome. Simply because of the complexity of the issues and the fact that we are talking about many different problems, like foreign diplomacy, domestic policy, economic issues and so on. But, we have the technology to make changes. We just have to use it correctly. Call me naive, but I like to think tha Carl Sagan is right in the end. We Humans are Capable of Greatness.
 
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Hungarian tradition? Even they like this joke.

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Hungary, our flagship nation for Europe ...

I don't know what makes me more happy, the refugee getting tipped over or The Young Turds being buttblasted about it.

As for your mentioning of the way Gypsies are treated in Hungary, I think if you actually saw a real live bunch of them, you'd quickly see that it's they who are doing most of the treating. Jobbik support is highest in the parts with the biggest concentration of Gypsies. If they were a nice culture to coexist with, that's exactly where it would be the lowest.
 
I don't know what makes me more happy, the refugee getting tipped over or The Young Turds being buttblasted about it.

As for your mentioning of the way Gypsies are treated in Hungary, I think if you actually saw a real live bunch of them, you'd quickly see that it's they who are doing most of the treating. Jobbik support is highest in the parts with the biggest concentration of Gypsies. If they were a nice culture to coexist with, that's exactly where it would be the lowest.
So... you've seen a real group of them right?
 
So... you've seen a real group of them right?
Of course he has. Illuminati Confirmed! would never dare to talk about things he doesn't have any actual experiences with. Naturally he has expertise and experience in everything.
 
Crni:

Yep, I get the picture. What I see in your post is basically a lot of good intentions without any rational background or sustainable plan. In a few words - you're proposing to tear down the outside borders of Schengen area and let everyone in. Which means constant yearly flow of millions refugees walking freely to Berlin without any security screening or medical examinations, and being relocated against their will all across the Europe later. Not going to work, you can't hold economical migrants in less developed countries by other means than force. As for Africa, you acknowledge possible problems such as shortages of water or food, you correctly acknowledge that this is not some wild theory but a fact confirmed by NASA observations monitoring the surface sources of drinking water all across the globe, and yet you assume than we can keep billions of future Africans on their continent somehow. Let's hope for some major scientific breakthrough making this possible, because this is not going to happen otherwise.

Also, you're assuming free redistribution of European social benefits to hundreds of millions people who haven't contributed to this system at all, which is unrealistic. I do understand that you, as a former immigrant living good life thanks to generosity of hosting German nation, can't hold any other view except of this far left wing socialistic dream, but these financial and other resources are not endless.
 
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