Jeff Gardiner on aliens

Isn't it really hinted at in previous Fallouts?

Go see Sierra Army Depot. In one of higher levels you can find holodisc telling story of the base. As it reads, the mainframe, or SkyNet, was created with help of ALIEN TECHNOLOGY. I know, bashing Beth is a matter of good taste, or rather collective behavior here at NMA forums, but look at the facts. One may argue that this SAD thing is a detail. OK, but it does exist and guys at Beth had right to take it as a source of inspiration. Moreover, retro science-fiction imho fits very well into Fallout universe, becuse Fallout is about 50's extrapolated far in to the future, not solely on postapocaliptic world. If one understands Fallout as game about how people in 50's see their future, aliens presence is new flavor than makes good blend.
 
Re: Isn't it really hinted at in previous Fallouts?

modrzej said:
Go see Sierra Army Depot. In one of higher levels you can find holodisc telling story of the base. As it reads, the mainframe, or SkyNet, was created with help of ALIEN TECHNOLOGY. I know, bashing Beth is a matter of good taste, or rather collective behavior here at NMA forums, but look at the facts. One may argue that this SAD thing is a detail. OK, but it does exist and guys at Beth had right to take it as a source of inspiration.
Skynet is alien according only to itself. Furthermore, it is the only canon notion of actual aliens present in either of the first game, and the second game is usually seen as too loose with canon. Specifically the Sierra Army Depot's records come into play, there.

But the most important question is not whether there is foreshadowing in previous games or not, the most important question is whether it fits the overall setting. It doesn't.

modrzej said:
Moreover, retro science-fiction imho fits very well into Fallout universe, becuse Fallout is about 50's extrapolated far in to the future, not solely on postapocaliptic world. If one understands Fallout as game about how people in 50's see their future, aliens presence is new flavor than makes good blend.
No, it is a setting *inspired* by the '50s vision of the future, but then gone to shit. It is not a literal translation of all possible '50s sci-fi.
It is fundamentally about human problems and definitely not about aliens.
 
Re: Isn't it really hinted at in previous Fallouts?

modrzej said:
guys at Beth had right to take it as a source of inspiration.
Have they cited it as an inspiration or are you just grasping at that as a way to cover their asses?
 
Gaming Journalist #1: So, Aliens, eh? So, that's really cool but what kind of new l00t do we get, lol!

Jeff Gardiner: (muttering to himself) this is gonna be so cool!

Gaming Journalist #1: I'm sorry I didn't catch that...

Jeff Gardiner: Oh, sorry, lol! I was just thinking about how nobody can match us, lol! So, what was the question?

Gaming Journalist #1: Well, the idea of this DLC seems like a really generic rehashing of a boring and overused videogame concept and completely misses the mark when considering capturing that Fallout feeling, but your fan-base doesn't seem to care as long as they get new, phat l00t, amirite?

Jeff Gardiner: lol! Well, let's just say these aliens are super cool, and they're not happy, lol! And I guarantee you're going to love all the wacky people from America's past!

Gaming Journalist #1: Yeah, I know, but what about the l00ts?

Jeff Gardiner: lol, well there's some Samurai Armor!

Gaming Journalist #1: K</s>ewwwwwl! wait, what?
 
Re: Isn't it really hinted at in previous Fallouts?

Sander said:
Skynet is alien according only to itself. Furthermore, it is the only canon notion of actual aliens present in either of the first game

It's your interpretation, but it isn't the most probable one. The holodisc can be found in desk of one of officers. It couldn't have been placed there by a robot, because robots in this facility hadn't means to manipulate such small things (if they had, there wouldn't be any quest for Chosen One.) Thus, it's likely that this disk was prepared by a human.

(...) and the second game is usually seen as too loose with canon. Specifically the Sierra Army Depot's records come into play, there.

If Fallout 2, a larger part of the two original games, is too loose with canon, then does the term "caonon" have any meaning? It's getting off-topic, sorry but I'll suppress discussing that.

But the most important question is not whether there is foreshadowing in previous games or not, the most important question is whether it fits the overall setting. It doesn't.

Let's wait for the final release. Your opinion is based on a few excerpts, not the actual gameplay, so your imagination plays a role here. What I was trying to point out, is that at least some of the original authors won't dismiss the idea of aliens.

No, it is a setting *inspired* by the '50s vision of the future, but then gone to shit. It is not a literal translation of all possible '50s sci-fi. It is fundamentally about human problems and definitely not about aliens.

And about mutant problems. Don't think that FEV-induced transformation is a realistic one from the biological point of view. It's pure sci-fi, not far away from aliens. If there's a restriction for adding new creatures to the Fallout Universe, it's a compliance with the general tone of Fallout. It's subjective, so I understand your point of view.
 
Re: Isn't it really hinted at in previous Fallouts?

modrzej said:
The holodisc can be found in desk of one of officers.

It's not on a holodisk.

modrzej said:
Don't think that FEV-induced transformation is a realistic one from the biological point of view.

I'm fairly sure that realism is not the problem.
 
Re: Isn't it really hinted at in previous Fallouts?

modrzej said:
It's your interpretation, but it isn't the most probable one. The holodisc can be found in desk of one of officers. It couldn't have been placed there by a robot, because robots in this facility hadn't means to manipulate such small things (if they had, there wouldn't be any quest for Chosen One.) Thus, it's likely that this disk was prepared by a human.
What holodisk? There's no holodisk saying that Skynet is an alien I am aware of, and looking at our Holodisc listings it seems that I am correct.

modrzej said:
If Fallout 2, a larger part of the two original games, is too loose with canon, then does the term "caonon" have any meaning? It's getting off-topic, sorry but I'll suppress discussing that.
Yes, it does. It's pretty clear what the core of Fallout was, and the original game (not the sequel) is the ultimate source of what is Fallout and what isn't. Those elements of Fallout 2 that don't fit with Fallout are therefore generally considered sketchy at best (New Reno, San Francisco, the NCR having a fleet of cars, and certain parts of the information in the SAD).

modrzej said:
Let's wait for the final release. Your opinion is based on a few excerpts, not the actual gameplay, so your imagination plays a role here. What I was trying to point out, is that at least some of the original authors won't dismiss the idea of aliens.
I can say with a reasonable amount of certainty that the original authors did not, in fact, put that bit of information in there, seeing as how the original authors largely quit Interplay during development of Fallout 2 and before much of the work on it had been done.

Also, why would I need to play the DLC to get the premise that the player gets abducted by aliens? That entire premise doesn't fit with Fallout, no matter how well done the DLC is.

modrzej said:
And about mutant problems. Don't think that FEV-induced transformation is a realistic one from the biological point of view. It's pure sci-fi, not far away from aliens.
Mutants are a part of the human problem - they're simply mutated humans.
And I'm not saying you can't logically justify aliens, but it doesn't fit with Fallout. Very slight (easter egg) hints at alien presence 'out there' isn't the same as blatantly having them abduct you.

Furthermore, the theme of alien abductions wasn't a '50s thing - it is mostly an '80s thing.
 
Re: Isn't it really hinted at in previous Fallouts?

modrzej said:
And about mutant problems. Don't think that FEV-induced transformation is a realistic one from the biological point of view. It's pure sci-fi, not far away from aliens.

It's Science!, not science, true, but as for it being sci-fi instead of post-apocalyptic? Uh, no, mutants after nuclear war were a very common 50s trope in the post-apocalyptic genre. Aliens? Not so much.
 
Considering this is a DLC pack, I just can't get too worked up about it. If aliens were central to the plot of Fallout 3, that would be one thing, but to me having them in DLC isn't much different from finding the crashed space ship in Fallout 2. It's there, but you may not ever see it.

I do find it a bit hypocritical to bash bethesda for introducing and/or expanding on things that were found in Fallout 2. People can say that aspects of Fallout 2 aren't canon, but that is selective bias at work. Fallout 2 is what it is, faults and all.
 
having them in DLC isn't much different from finding the crashed space ship in Fallout 2.

Finding a crashed spaceship in Fallout 2 is like finding a crashed spaceship in Fallout 3. Which you already do. Having an add-on focused on them is like having a major sidequest focusing on aliens in the main game.
 
Beelzebud said:
I do find it a bit hypocritical to bash bethesda for introducing and/or expanding on things that were found in Fallout 2. People can say that aspects of Fallout 2 aren't canon, but that is selective bias at work. Fallout 2 is what it is, faults and all.

easter-eggs =! canon
 
Beelzebud said:
Considering this is a DLC pack, I just can't get too worked up about it. If aliens were central to the plot of Fallout 3, that would be one thing, but to me having them in DLC isn't much different from finding the crashed space ship in Fallout 2. It's there, but you may not ever see it.

I do find it a bit hypocritical to bash bethesda for introducing and/or expanding on things that were found in Fallout 2. People can say that aspects of Fallout 2 aren't canon, but that is selective bias at work. Fallout 2 is what it is, faults and all.
No one takes Dr. Who phone booth in Fallout seriously but they do take crashed alien ship seriously.
THAT is hypocritical. See, because we take none of them seriously, we've realized they're easter eggs.

But hey, go ahead. Believe all you want that it was the Chosen One from the future who destroyed V13's water chip.
 
Re: Isn't it really hinted at in previous Fallouts?

While I do not like the fact that Bethesda have made aliens a big part of the Fallout plot (having a DLC based around them is absurd, and the alien ship and blaster in the vanilla game were already questionable decisions), I would like to defend the actual existance of aliens in the Fallout universe as being canonical.

In Fallout 1 the special encounter isn't the only place you see aliens - I recall an alien body in some kind of suspension tube thing in one of the levels of The Glow. Now, you can call that an easter egg as well, but the fact is that's TWO alien easter eggs in Fallout 1, one of which can be seen by anybody by visiting a location, no high luck encounter required.

Also, one of the random generic messages that Brotherhood Scribes can say in Fallout 1 is "I've seen an alien space ship before."

Also, the "alien" page on The Vault mentions something about the Shi in Fallout 2 having some knowledge of aliens? http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Alien The citation thing links to the Emperor computer's message file but I see nothing about aliens in it, so I'm not sure where that comes from.

There's also the fact that the Fallout 1 alien encounter is a far more singnificant and important special encounter than the others. The others, you just see Godzilla's footprint, or see the TARDIS for a couple of seconds before it vanishes, leaving behind generic items that are useful but not super special or one-of-a-kind (such as a stealth boy, motion sensor, geiger counter etc). You forget about it a few minutes later. You may use the resulting useful item at a certain point in the game, but it isn't a big part of your experience.

By contrast, the alien encounter gives you the Alien Blaster, one of the most powerful weapons in the game. It has its own unique appearence, based on classic sci-fi but not particularly based on any movie or TV show (unlike the Doctor Who/Star Trek/Godzilla stuff). The Fallout developers designed their own alien blaster with unique appearence and properties and its own item description. It has its own special awesome unique death animation (no pulse weapons in Fallout 1, rememember!), and it uses a common inexpensive ammo type.

This means that if you get the alien encounter, you are likely to use the alien blaster throughout the rest of the game, for all close-range combat. If you are lucky and get the alien encounter early in the game, you're going to start boosting up that Energy Weapon skill straight away, just for the alien blaster, rather than boosting it up for the plasma rifle later. It's hard to call it an "easter egg" when you've used it to disintergrate a third of the mutants and purple-robed people in the military base and cathedral, and zapped the Master's Lieutenant in the face with it.

If Fallout 2's Holy Hand Grenade encounter worked correctly, you could simply dismiss it as an easter egg, cause it is a one-shot superweapon, and the whole scenario is obviously a reference to a popular film. By contrast, the alien blaster is a primary weapon you'll use throught the whole game.

That's possibly why they ended up cutting out the Phaser from the star trek special encounter in Fallout 2. If it gave you a useful weapon that you could use throughout the rest of the game then the player would be constantly be reminded of the encounter, making it less of an easter egg. They decided it was OK for you to get some extra-good stimpacks (hyposprays) that you would use a couple of times, but having you vaporising the Enclave and Frank Horrigan with a Star Trek phaser would be a bit too much.

There's also the fact that the alien blaster reoccurs in Fallout 2 in an encounter with a trader named Willy, who also has a bunch of guards armed with rare 9mm Mauser pistols. He's always in the same area of the map, north of Modoc (which makes sense, it's a trading post and there are a bunch of traders that stay in the Bed and Breakfast). When you encounter him his inventory depends on your level and your luck. He talks and talks and puts you to sleep and when you wake up you dont know what he is selling. If you are over level 13 and pass a luck check then he has alien blasters. You can kill him and get yourself several alien blasters! Alien blasters to spare, to give to your NPC companions or sell in shops! And the thing is this guy can't be considered just an easter egg, anyone that walks on that bit of the map (north of vault city?) is likely to encounter him, and you can visit him repeatedly to try your luck again.

So, let's do the full run-down of alien related things in Fallout 1 and 2:

1) The crashed alien ship in Fallout 1, obviously
2) The alien blaster you get from this encounter, one of the best weapons in the game, which has its own proper item description, and which you can continue to use throughout the game
3) Alien corpse in The Glow
4) Brotherhood Scribe can randomly mention having seen an alien space ship
5) Skynet in the Sierra Army Depot in Fallout 2 mentions being made with alien technology. (Is he reliable? Does the fact that he has a few dates wrong make him unreliable? More like unreliable developers doing inconsistant dates when writing the script.)
6) Merchant encounter lets you get several alien blasters.
7) For years many people thought of the Wanamingoes as being aliens, and there are Fallout 2 walkthroughs that call them aliens. The Fallout Bible set the record genetic experiments, but the Fallout Bible is an after-the-fact document written by one Fallout developer, and only hardcore Fallout fans have read it. The average normal person that played Fallout 2 a few times and chatted about it with mates is likely to have thought of them as aliens.

I think that with all that, it is quite reasonable for the prescence of aliens to be canonical rather than merely an easter egg. But, the point is that even though they are canonical, they are not supposed to be a big part of the Fallout universe. It's also a canonical fact that the USSR was still around during the war, and that the war was between the US and communist China, but that doesn't mean an adventure set in the post-apocalyptic remains of Russia or China are a good idea.

Still, I expect I will enjoy this DLC, since I'm a big fan of stuff like "Mars Attacks!" I don't personally think having Mars Attacks style stuff is very Fallout-ish, but then to enjoy Fallout 3 you've got to forget about Fallout heritage anyway. I enjoy Fallout 3 as a generic science fiction game with retro elements. So this DLC is right up my street.

Sander said:
Furthermore, the theme of alien abductions wasn't a '50s thing - it is mostly an '80s thing.

There was a little bit of abduction stuff in the 50s, and there was quite a bit of abduction stuff in the 60s. The 60s had stuff like "project bluebird", US Air Force investigations into all the stories of UFOs, some of which included abductions. The "men in black", supposed government agents that would threaten people that had alien encounters, were mentioned in a book in a book on UFOs in 1954.

In the 90s there was a men in black style TV series set in the 60s where many of the episodes were based on outlandish alien abduction stories.

I recall a great 1950s sci-fi movie in which a little boy sees a flying saucer lands in some sandpits in the countryside. Then his dad starts acting strangely, and insists that his wife go out on a walk with him. Turns out that the aliens are abducting people that walk on the sand. Then later they send them back with mind-control chips or something to do their bidding, and lead other people to the sand pits to be abducted.

There was also the 1960s TV series The Invaders. Several episodes dealt with people being abducted. (And the aliens themselves were always in fake human forms, often in important positions and sometimes in the government or military, so presumably they often abducted/killed someone and then replaced that person.)

So yeah, alien abduction didn't become a massive phenomona until the 80s, but there were certainly stories of it happening in popular culture long before then. The first stories of people being "anal probed" and all that stuff was from the 1950s.
 
Maybe they'll continue this storyline in FO4. The VD takes control of the ship, returns to Earth to collect what remains of humanity, and then travels to Titan, where they establish a colony, processing methane and ice.
 
Re: Isn't it really hinted at in previous Fallouts?

Some random points:

your evil twin said:
Also, one of the random generic messages that Brotherhood Scribes can say in Fallout 1 is "I've seen an alien space ship before."

A lot of real-world people claim to have done so as well.

Also, the "alien" page on The Vault mentions something about the Shi in Fallout 2 having some knowledge of aliens? http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Alien The citation thing links to the Emperor computer's message file but I see nothing about aliens in it, so I'm not sure where that comes from.

Probably the "Xeno program". From Wikipedia: "Xeno- is a prefix based on the Greek word "Xenos", meaning stranger. In biology, it is often used to designate species-difference, such as xenotransplantation (transplantation between organisms of different species). In science fiction it has been used to refer to extraterrestrial life." It's found in the biology workstation and the game is science fiction, so take your pick.

It has its own special awesome unique death animation

Not unique: any source of electrical damage (forcefields, Cattle Prod) will cause it.

6) Merchant encounter lets you get several alien blasters.

This is more a case of obscurely inserting an old item into the game than attributing its circulation to aliens.

7) For years many people thought of the Wanamingoes as being aliens, and there are Fallout 2 walkthroughs that call them aliens.

That's because some people in-game claim that they are aliens, and the game sometimes call them "aliens" to keep up the uncertainty.
 
That's possibly why they ended up cutting out the Phaser from the star trek special encounter in Fallout 2. If it gave you a useful weapon that you could use throughout the rest of the game then the player would be constantly be reminded of the encounter, making it less of an easter egg.

But they did put the solar scorcher in another Star Trek special encounter.
 
TwinkieStabllis said:
FO4 will be:

Fallout vs Alien vs Predator

If the VD can claim the spaceship, maybe the next step is to colonize Mars or Titan. Think of the possibilities. Giant sand worms. Fallass Effect.
 
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