Jeff Gardiner on aliens
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your evil twin
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Re: Isn't it really hinted at in previous Fallouts?
Ah, but the difference there is that the Solar Scorcher itself isn't from Star Trek, it's supposed to be a modern energy weapon similar to the laser rifles and plasma rifles and so-on.
You happen to find it after a Star Trek portal sends you to a past version of Vault 13, but if instead the player found the weapon in a military base or something it wouldn't have seemed out of place. When you use the Solar Scorcher, you aren't constantly reminded of Star Trek. Getting to blast everyone with an actual Star Trek phaser would have made Star Trek a significant element of the game, rather than a few minutes of pop culture reference.
(Unless the phaser used its own unique ammo that depleted after a few shots and couldn't be replaced. That would make it suitably easter eggy.)
It makes sense that the Star Trek "Guardian of Forever" portal is considered an easter egg and shouldn't be regarded as canon, since it is highly improbable (it is a magical portal to the past), there's no explanation as to who built it or why it is there, and it happens to be immediately recognisable from a popular TV show. The same goes for the crashed Federation shuttle. But the Solar Scorcher weapon itself fits right into the universe, and I'm sure most people regard it as a canon bit of Fallout technology.
The alien crash thing is different, because the flying saucer and aliens are not recognisable from any particular TV show movie, instead it they are a generic 50s style flying saucer and generic aliens. The world is a nuclear post-apocalyptic version of the 50s vision of the future, and the crashed alien ship (and the blaster itself) fit that 50s vision. It's a world where computers use magnetic tape reels and have a memory of a few megabytes, yet somehow can also have advanced artificial intelligences. Where laser guns fire red bolts of energy that are SLOWER than bullets. In that kind of pseudo-science universe, there's no reason there couldn't also be aliens in flying saucers.
The weapon itself looks suitably retro, and since you can proceed to use it throughout the whole game and kick extreme arse with it, it seems far more than an easter egg. There's just too much effort gone into the whole alien business - the aliens themselves, the flying saucer, and of course the weapon itself, which has its own artwork, sound effects and description, and is powerful enough to have game-changing ramifcations. It's different from Godzilla's footprint or the TARDIS or talking Brahmin or whatever, which provide one minute of amusement and nothing more.
Oh really? I knew about the effect also being for force fields, didn't know about the cattle prod, I never bothered to use it, was never much of a melee player.
I considered it highly unlikely they'd bother doing those cool electric disintergration deaths just for the forcefields, I figured it was more intended for the alien blaster and they decided they might as well use it for the forcefields too. Since it was used for cattleprods as well, I guess it loses its uniqueness.
Are disintergrations by cattleprod common? I'd imagine only a super rare high damage critical could do that. Compared to the alien blaster, which disintergrated pretty much everyone I used it on.
In my first playthrough of Fallout 1 the alien blaster pretty much defined the second half of the game. At long range I'd attack with a rifle, and then take some steps forward, and then when I got into range ZAP! Mwuahahaha! I'd read no walkthroughs or guides, didn't know what to expect. For me it was no easter egg, for me it was my primary weapon. Picking up all the loot that fell was a bit of a hassle, but I considered it a fair trade-off.
Well, doesn't change the fact that it is still called an alien blaster and that the item description says it was clearly of alien origin. For players that never had the alien encounter in Fallout 1, it would be a case of "wow, this guy just sold me an alien ray gun". I'm sure the player wouldn't then think "except I'm sure that in this game aliens probably dont' exist."
Ah, it's been many more years since I played Fallout 2 (I just started a replay, I'm up to Vault City), and I didn't recall them being called aliens by actual in-game characters.
Is there anything in the game that actually CONTADICTS the idea of them being aliens? Any mention of experiments of anything? Otherwise, the only thing that says they aren't is the Fallout Bible.
If the game itself only ever refers to them as aliens, then it Bethesda could get away with bringing them back as aliens in Fallout 3. Given the fast and loose way that Bethesda treats the Fallout franchise it is highly unlikely they went combing through the bible to find out the developers' intentions.
Ausir said:
Ah, but the difference there is that the Solar Scorcher itself isn't from Star Trek, it's supposed to be a modern energy weapon similar to the laser rifles and plasma rifles and so-on.
You happen to find it after a Star Trek portal sends you to a past version of Vault 13, but if instead the player found the weapon in a military base or something it wouldn't have seemed out of place. When you use the Solar Scorcher, you aren't constantly reminded of Star Trek. Getting to blast everyone with an actual Star Trek phaser would have made Star Trek a significant element of the game, rather than a few minutes of pop culture reference.
(Unless the phaser used its own unique ammo that depleted after a few shots and couldn't be replaced. That would make it suitably easter eggy.)
It makes sense that the Star Trek "Guardian of Forever" portal is considered an easter egg and shouldn't be regarded as canon, since it is highly improbable (it is a magical portal to the past), there's no explanation as to who built it or why it is there, and it happens to be immediately recognisable from a popular TV show. The same goes for the crashed Federation shuttle. But the Solar Scorcher weapon itself fits right into the universe, and I'm sure most people regard it as a canon bit of Fallout technology.
The alien crash thing is different, because the flying saucer and aliens are not recognisable from any particular TV show movie, instead it they are a generic 50s style flying saucer and generic aliens. The world is a nuclear post-apocalyptic version of the 50s vision of the future, and the crashed alien ship (and the blaster itself) fit that 50s vision. It's a world where computers use magnetic tape reels and have a memory of a few megabytes, yet somehow can also have advanced artificial intelligences. Where laser guns fire red bolts of energy that are SLOWER than bullets. In that kind of pseudo-science universe, there's no reason there couldn't also be aliens in flying saucers.
The weapon itself looks suitably retro, and since you can proceed to use it throughout the whole game and kick extreme arse with it, it seems far more than an easter egg. There's just too much effort gone into the whole alien business - the aliens themselves, the flying saucer, and of course the weapon itself, which has its own artwork, sound effects and description, and is powerful enough to have game-changing ramifcations. It's different from Godzilla's footprint or the TARDIS or talking Brahmin or whatever, which provide one minute of amusement and nothing more.
Per said:
Oh really? I knew about the effect also being for force fields, didn't know about the cattle prod, I never bothered to use it, was never much of a melee player.
I considered it highly unlikely they'd bother doing those cool electric disintergration deaths just for the forcefields, I figured it was more intended for the alien blaster and they decided they might as well use it for the forcefields too. Since it was used for cattleprods as well, I guess it loses its uniqueness.
Are disintergrations by cattleprod common? I'd imagine only a super rare high damage critical could do that. Compared to the alien blaster, which disintergrated pretty much everyone I used it on.
In my first playthrough of Fallout 1 the alien blaster pretty much defined the second half of the game. At long range I'd attack with a rifle, and then take some steps forward, and then when I got into range ZAP! Mwuahahaha! I'd read no walkthroughs or guides, didn't know what to expect. For me it was no easter egg, for me it was my primary weapon. Picking up all the loot that fell was a bit of a hassle, but I considered it a fair trade-off.
Well, doesn't change the fact that it is still called an alien blaster and that the item description says it was clearly of alien origin. For players that never had the alien encounter in Fallout 1, it would be a case of "wow, this guy just sold me an alien ray gun". I'm sure the player wouldn't then think "except I'm sure that in this game aliens probably dont' exist."
Ah, it's been many more years since I played Fallout 2 (I just started a replay, I'm up to Vault City), and I didn't recall them being called aliens by actual in-game characters.
Is there anything in the game that actually CONTADICTS the idea of them being aliens? Any mention of experiments of anything? Otherwise, the only thing that says they aren't is the Fallout Bible.
If the game itself only ever refers to them as aliens, then it Bethesda could get away with bringing them back as aliens in Fallout 3. Given the fast and loose way that Bethesda treats the Fallout franchise it is highly unlikely they went combing through the bible to find out the developers' intentions.
FO2 is loose with cannon so I don't really see why everyone gets up in arms about this being the case in FO3. Cracks start to appear straight after the first game and that's to be expected. New contributors were brought in...time had passed...the proof reading was probably not high up the 'to do' list. FO1 had no other for it to be compared to as it was the beginning of the series. Anything that happened in that game was cannon. For every person pointing out a fault there will be someone to point out otherwise and vice versa. It is, after all down to interpretation.
Cimmerian Nights
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Ausir, you remind me of the Watcher from old Marvel Comics.
And Twinks, depending on how you view FOBOS, thongs are already in baby. Or so I'm told.
And Twinks, depending on how you view FOBOS, thongs are already in baby. Or so I'm told.
One more thing about the alien blaster(s).
In FO1 and 2 they work on small energy cells, ammo made by *dun dun dunnnn* humans, earthlings. Doesn't make sense that a weapon made by aliens would use human ammo and it doesn't have to, because it's an easter egg.
Only in FO3 the alien blaster uses alien power cell, not small energy cell.
It's like alien blasters were taken seriously only in FO3. And why isn't that surprising.
In FO1 and 2 they work on small energy cells, ammo made by *dun dun dunnnn* humans, earthlings. Doesn't make sense that a weapon made by aliens would use human ammo and it doesn't have to, because it's an easter egg.
Only in FO3 the alien blaster uses alien power cell, not small energy cell.
It's like alien blasters were taken seriously only in FO3. And why isn't that surprising.
TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
Cimmerian Nights said:
that was like...my whole joke, dude.
Cimmerian Nights
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Must be your subtlety that made me miss that. 
Usually with FOBOS it's, HAWT SKANKY BEECHES IN THONGSORZ or whetever, I'm too old for convincing leet speek satire.
Usually with FOBOS it's, HAWT SKANKY BEECHES IN THONGSORZ or whetever, I'm too old for convincing leet speek satire.
your evil twin
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Black said:
Note that the description in Fallout 1 and 2 is "Looks like it can take small energy cells, however." Suggesting it wasn't designed for small energy cells, but that the size and shape happen to be compatible enough.
Presumably an advanced alien civilisation that builds spaceships with faster-than-light technology has developed devices that doesn't have problems with needing adaptors on plug sockets. Stick a battery in the hole, the gun drains the battery of energy, job done. I imagine it would handle microfusion cells too if they weren't too big to actually fit in the hole or whatever.
The reason Bethesda gave the alien blaster unique alien power cells in Fallout 3 was because it was no longer a "random" encounter that you'd get only after spending ages wandering the map with a high luck/outdoorsman skills. Instead in Fallout 3 it is a location you can walk to, even while level 2 or whatever. If it still used plentiful small energy cells, you'd never need another weapon again, ever.
(They tried doing the random thing with the special Firelance version... bad idea. I had the encounter, without SEEING it, and just stumbled across some random alien energy cells on the ground. Later I installed a mod that turns the location of the firelance into a quest that shows on the map, and discovered that the damn thing had fallen onto the roof of a shack thing. Managed to climb up and get it eventually.)
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
...what? They design a gun in the hopes that alien technology will happen to work in it (not that it makes any sense given how batteries work and the shear number of different designs and possible designs) and make it larger so that you can fit on a second rechargeable battery in order to due this? This is one hell of an ass pull. The reason it used small energy cells was most likely because it was an easter-egg which they didn't care about the player using if s/he so choose for fun.your evil twin said:
Cimmerian Nights
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I'd have to concur that more often than not we give more importance to the minutia canon than the developers themselves may have, who probably made some of these decisions out of expediency. It's the most pragmatic way.
Black said:
So, since the Alien Blaster in Fallout 3 has its own ammo, it takes itself seriously...?
How about in Fallout 1, where you can use it throughout the whole game, killing everything you see with it?
Quit trying to canonize everything. It's a game. Not a real event. A game. The story isn't some sacred document that only half-gods can change. Since nearly everything in Fallout 1 and 2 is explained with a "DURR, FEV DONE IT" kind of attitude, it's a bit biast to complain how Bethesda is being careless with the franchise.
If you could put Fallout's story in short, it'd be just "60's Science! in future, where nukes have taken out everything." 60's Science! theme includes aliens with hostile and abductive tendencies. Like in Zeta.
You didn't even get the time period right, Minorkos.
You aren't very good at this, are you?
You aren't very good at this, are you?
Nothing I hate more than the argument you're religiously devoted to something just because you care about it more than someone. Sort of a "Heh, nerds" shot. Fallout was 50's not 60's, and just because something was big in the 50's doesn't mean it'll fit in the game's universe (or will the Klan make an appearance?).
Bethesda's being careless with it in that they seem to be obsessed with making stuff their idea of fun, which seems to drift towards the "cool sh**" side of things rather than trying to keep things coherent.
Ah hell, BN beat me to it. Well, I'd like to add: look at the website you're on. It's what? Hm? Say it with me: a gaming website dedicated to a specific series. That's right! Nit-picking canon and (in)consistencies is going to be a naturally-occurring phenomena, as with any community centered around a specific media series. We enjoy the series and want to pour over and prod and bitch and debate over the entirety of Fallout because we love the game and its setting. You may as well tell the moon not to have so many craters. Besides, consistency is really not that much to ask for.
Brother None said:
What a perfect comeback for my message. Bravo.
50's Science!...?
Ulysses said:
Okay, Fallout world. It was written by people who made Fallout 1 and 2. These writers can change it, no one else. Actually, I don't think anyone can change it anymore. Scratch what I said earlier. Fallout world was just created. It's no longer in the hands of the writers, only ones writing it are the fans. Most of the old Fallout fans are here, on NMA, speculating the already-detailed story further.
There are same fans also on Bethesda. They also happen to have resources and the license to make their speculations a part of the franchise. Sure, most here agree that they're really not the ones to decide it, but neither are you. So, it's either guys who love the series and have money, or just the guys who love the series.
Ulysses said:
How does Klan relate to Science!?
Edit:
Going to go sleep now (4:15 here).
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Manmies
Bye.
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
i distinctly remember an interview with one of the original devs where they admitted any occurance of aliens was an easter-egg and even dared people to try to find all of them.
or else it was one of them saying aliens were not cannon, they just put hints to make people question it.
im like 99% sure they said aliens were not cannon.
or else it was one of them saying aliens were not cannon, they just put hints to make people question it.
im like 99% sure they said aliens were not cannon.
Minorkos said:
So basically your argument consists of incoherent sarcasm and a variation on the tired old "they have the license so everything they do fits by default and you should just accept it"?
TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
Per said:
[Intelligence] So you're saying I should just accept it?
UnidentifiedFlyingTard
Vault Fossil
Well aren't you a chip off the old block.