Joke on Turkey in the EU

[Jebus]

Allright, now I've really lost my patience.

What about the Second World War??And please tell me did The Netherlands sent troops to Russia??

No, you stupid fuck, the Netherlands were occupied. Occupied countries can't really send armies to Russia, can they? And do you really think that, even if they would've been occupied yet, they would've sent their troops to bleeding Russia?
But, oh, you're right, they should! After all, Russia did help the Netherlands when they were invaded, didn't they?

WRONG AGAIN, YOU PIECE OF BULGARIAN TURD! They were to busy signing the devil's pact, a nice piece of dictatorial realpolitik! Just two selfish bastards signing a non-agression pact when the Nazi's were conquering Europe... Aaaaaaw, we really did owe Russia soooooooo much!

Did you want Hitler to rule the world?

About as much as I would ever want to see you wasting my tax money to buy your food. I hope that when Bulgaria joins the EU, they will kick your kind of brainless human genetic waste into the Black Sea.

How many jews live in The Netherlands now?

So what, you are now implying that the government of the Netherlands helped the Nazi's with the holocaust? Oh shit boy, I hope you were making a joke. Dear god, I hope you were making a joke...

Anyway, none of these 'arguments' have anything to do with what Kharn said. You really are one stupid motherfucker, aren't you?

Kharn: Perhaps the expansion of the EU should go more slowly. You know, so better bonds are forged first.

You: THE DUTCH ARE JEW-KILLERS!

Fucking dipshit.

Well this is thankless.One of the greatest countries in the world Russia(they are only 2) saved it of course.The Russians stopped Hitlaaaa.

The Russians stopped Hitler because HE attacked THEM. Is your brain truly so eaten away by sifilis you don't have a clue why Russia entered the war? Let me say it again: the Russians had signed a non-agression pact. Let me translate that for your little stinking white-trash mind: Stalin said Hitler could do whatever the fuck he wanted, as long as he didn't attack them.

And then when Hitler broke his word, the Russians entered the war. Not because they wanted to save Europe out of altruistic reasons, you shite.

Did England [...] do this??HA???

Well as a matter of fact, they did. Good lord kid, Bulgarian education must be one hell of a mess if you didn't even know that.
Then again, you could of course also be incredibly stupid.

"Errr, I think I'll go with option two, sir!"

Do you know ho many children did mother Russia lost???

Way too much. And I guess they're all spinning around in their graves right now thinking how they gave their lives saving a waste of carbon like you.

Please,tell me something-Did the Russians tried ro rule Europe.They could do this,but no?Why?Because Russia show respect to miserable countries in western Europe!!!

Oh god. Oh my fucking god.

Nooooo! Of course the Sovjets didn't want to rule Europe, or the entire world for that matter! Of course they didn't want a global revolution!

I think you'd better go read some more history, kid. Hell, go read your fist fucking history book to begin with.

Jesus Christ, I'm perplexed somebody with your intelligence even knows how to press the 'power' button, let alone type a fucking message.

Go away kid.


Very, very fucking far away.

 

[Malky]

Chill the fuck out before you get banned, Jebus.

 

[Paladin Solo]

Such hostility. I smell VATS!

 

[Jebus]

Yeah, see me walking, biatches.

SQUAWK!

But anyway, I've had kind of a bad day. With the nazi's taking over Flanders and all... His was just a little too much stupidity to swallow.

 

[Paladin Solo]

Stop with the damn squawking!

 

[Brother None]

What did you just say, "Was ist?", squawk?

Bulgaria and Greece have no place in the EU, any more than Turkey. Quite frankly, none of these three, or a number of other countries added, should have been added to the EU now and should have no place in the ranks of the EU for the next 20-odd years, while we carefully foster more healthy relationships with this area, which is not historically tied together like most of Western Europe (including Poland, goddammit).

What about the Second World War??And please tell me did The Netherlands sent troops to Russia??Did you want Hitler to rule the world?How many jews live in The Netherlands now?

Please try and explain to me how my statement that the Balkan countries and Greece have no clear place in the EU right now has *anything* to do with the Dutch involvement in WW II?

Well this is thankless.One of the greatest countries in the world Russia(they are only 2) saved it of course.The Russians stopped Hitlaaaa.There is no doubt.Did The Netherlands do this???Did England or France or do this??HA???Do you know ho many children did mother Russia lost???Please,tell me something-Did the Russians tried ro rule Europe.They could do this,but no?Why?Because Russia show respect to miserable countries in western Europe!!!

Dear dipshit, I was actually not referring to WW II. The people here know I'm one of the stronger advocates of not underestimating Russian influence on the victory against the nazis in WW II.

I was referring to the historian's card which the Russians pull which resembles your "we stopped the Ottomans"-card, namely that they somehow "stopped" the Khans, despite the fact that the mongols rode freely throughout Europe not halted by the Russians or the Western nations and didn't return until they bloody well felt like it.

And the Russians díd try to rule Europe, and they did not save Europe out of kindness, either. Nor did the US, for that matter, but that's another story.

Chill the fuck out before you get banned, Jebus.

Considering the circumstances, and the fact that Jebus warned me beforehand that he'd probably go apeshit and I did not tell him not to, I will not even warn him for this. Rosh goes apeshit for less stupidity than that, so I, magnanimously, will let this Roshesque behaviour slide.

Tho' Jebus is less funny.

Thing is, it was that place and that time that made it so important. It was that crucial moment with the Reformation, the begginings of modern government in Western Europe, that gave Western Europe the unique place in history as the only small area to truly govern the rest of the world.

Yes, they would have by some point. And I did overestimate it's impact a bit. But, still, the rise of the Ottoman Empire was as crucial in the rise of Western Europe as anything.

Crucial...yes...yes...very important. I can't disagree with you there, but Westerncentrophilic history often has it that causes to the West being rich can only lie in...well...the West, ignoring such countries as Poland-Lithuania, Russia, Byzantium and the Ottoman Empire, so don't be surprised when you get opposition to this viewpoint.

Yes, the influence of the Ottoman Empire on Western modern history is underrated, but it's easy to overrate too

Now, besides the obvious negative effects this had on Byzantine society, it als gave the Venetians more of an incentive to go on the Fith Crusade. Thus ending Byzantium, thus starting the Ottoman Empire, thus Chris Columbus sails west in 1492.

Whoa there, that's a lot of lines being drawn without any clear connection being made, you make it sound like "Ball A hits Ball B hits Ball C", but consider Ball D to Z, who were also flying around the table at the time, I find it pretty hard to believe that Ball A is the only cause of Ball C. And it isn't.

Cause the land routes across the Steepe where to dangerous, thus they loooked for alternatives-namely Portugese caravels traveling the sea way.

I think you're overestimating how economical the Portugese/Spanish way. About 1/4 of the ships that went from Europe to south-east Asia returned, and only a marginal bit more for the Americas. These things-weather Fluets or Caravels-where extremely dangerous.

Wasn't really my point

Spain and Italy (and Portugal) where the movers. They found the place, for Christ's sake. There's a reason that British and French and Dutch colonialism did'nt start until the science of cartography caught up with the naval science.

Them being the movers were what incited the rest, but if they hadn't moved the others would've had to eventually. It just takes one to make the move and the others must follow. Hell, it could even have been Russia crossing over into Norther America for all I care, but someone would've moved. As I explained, GB and France especially had their backs against the wall and it's actually quite surprising that Spain, Portugal and Italy were first, and that's because of the causes you named. Without those causes, GB and France would've been

Why 'sadly'? They where'nt as genocidal as the Spanish or the Portigese/

Sad 'cause they're British and French.

 

[Malky]

Chill the fuck out before you get banned, Jebus.

Considering the circumstances, and the fact that Jebus warned me beforehand that he'd probably go apeshit and I did not tell him not to, I will not even warn him for this. Rosh goes apeshit for less stupidity than that, so I, magnanimously, will let this Roshesque behaviour slide.

Tho' Jebus is less funny.

That's slightly unfair, seeing as anyone else (*coughCCRcough*) would be at least warned for such a thing...but, you're the boss.

Not saying I want to see Jebuseses banned, y'know. Just sayin'.

 

[Brother None]

That's slightly unfair, seeing as anyone else (*coughCCRcough*) would be at least warned for such a thing...but, you're the boss.

Not saying I want to see Jebuseses banned, y'know. Just sayin'.

Difference is CC was constantly offensive, while Jebus is generally well-behaved.

But you're right, I should be more consistant: Jebus, you're warned. Don't do it again, under any circumstances. If you're annoyed by this fellow that much, simply ignore him.

As punishment I give you the squawk-rank...oh wait.

 

[Fas Ist]

No, you stupid fuck, the Netherlands were occupied. Occupied countries can't really send armies to Russia, can they? And do you really think that, even if they would've been occupied yet, they would've sent their troops to bleeding Russia?

Oh,yes.You don't know about the secret negotiations between The Netherlands and Germany.Dutchmen were sent to help Adolf.

So what, you are now implying that the government of the Netherlands helped the Nazi's with the holocaust? Oh shit boy, I hope you were making a joke. Dear god, I hope you were making a joke...

I ment about the politicians at that time.

You: THE DUTCH ARE JEW-KILLERS!

Jews were scared and escaped from the Netherlands(most of these who were living there)-foreseeing people.

Stalin said Hitler could do whatever the fuck he wanted, as long as he didn't attack them

Stalin was an idiot!!!He killed many officers and people,who would have been helpful during the war,but despite him,the Russians f...ed invadors!!
Well Jebus,you prooved again the way of understanding of grunting Brussels sprouts.You understood just the opposite I wrote and you can't accept the fact that countries in eastern Europe are greater than these in western Europe.

Go away kid.


Very, very fucking far away.

Who is kid BE PEDERAZZ GROZEN.MA MAIKA TI V USTATA.(IMA6 MNOGO POZDRAVI NA NEIA OT EDIN MANGAL,KOITO E DOWOLEN OT NEQ.)[

 

[Jebus]

What did you just say, "Was ist?", squawk?

Hahaha! Suckaaaah!

He got the "SQUAWK" rank! Can it get any more humiliating than that...




Anyway, I'd like to apologise to CCR. I kinda went outta line there, I guess... Had a hard day and all, ya know.

And about Wass: I walked the walk. But I won't be walking the walk no more if that's what you want buch of wanking wally's...

SQUAWK!

 

[Big T]

.One of the greatest countries in the world Russia(they are only 2) saved it of course.The Russians stopped Hitlaaaa.There is no doubt.Did The Netherlands do this???Did England or France or do this??

Uh...Yeah?
No country in the world (at that time) could have repelled an invasion from a neighbour as powerful as Nazi Germany, not the US, not Russia, certainly not Bulgaria. That (somewhat) lets France off the hook. England (or, to be more correct, Great Britain) was the greatest opposition to Hitler on the western front. I would go so far as to say that we did more to oppose the Nazis than Russia/USSR did. There may have been more Russians lost than Britons, but idiotic tactics and a lack of resources don't do a great deal to stop the most powerful army on the planet (at that time).

Please,tell me something-Did the Russians tried ro rule Europe.They could do this,but no?Why?Because Russia show respect to miserable countries in western Europe!!!

Seeing as Russia couldn't hold off the Nazis, thed's have little hope of conquering all of Europe. They had a lot of manpower, but theirs was the least well equipped army in WW2, and they'd have been slaughtered if they tried to conquer Europe.

(Yes, I'm aware these points have been dealt with (probably in a more masterful manner) by Jebus and Kharn, but we just lost at the football, and I feel unneccesarily patriotic)

 

[Wooz]

SQUAWK?

Hmmm, let me guess... Could it be because of your blatantly stupid, racist, nationalist posts and attitude?

A word of advice: Chill out and stop blarting suprematist propaganda in response to people's opinions, m'kay? Keep in mind that you're a noob here, that these are your first posts, and you're already upsetting people.

And no, Jebus isn't a dirty homosexual, and doing whatever you said with his mouth is also out of the question. Before you ask, I speak Bulgarian to some extent, and believing no one else would understand your capslocked flames is quite futile, too.

The Squawk title, in most cases, is a warning before the user gets permanently banned, understand?

 

[Big T]

And no, Jebus isn't a dirty homosexual, and doing whatever you said with his mouth is also out of the question. Before you ask, I speak Bulgarian to some extent, and believing no one else would understand your capslocked flames is quite futile, too.

Aye, this is an English board, speak(write/type) in English. Regardless of whether you like it or not. If you ignore the rules, then prepare for the Moderators to get Moderate on your ass.
Or Something...

 

[Brother None]

Oh,yes.You don't know about the secret negotiations between The Netherlands and Germany.Dutchmen were sent to help Adolf.

Prove that.

Jews were scared and escaped from the Netherlands(most of these who were living there)-foreseeing people.

Yes, about this and your "great Eastern nations"-theory, do you remember what happened to the Jews in Poland? Perhaps you'll remember that Poland were where the most and the most horrible crimes against the Jews were commited. And Poland, my dear, is an Eastern nation, despite it's Western ties

As for Russia, do you remember what Stalin did to the Jews? Thought not. I don't think it's appropriate to rank East above West in "Jew bodycount"

Stalin was an idiot!!!He killed many officers and people,who would have been helpful during the war,but despite him,the Russians f...ed invadors!!

Don't worry, we're well aware of that.

Well Jebus,you prooved again the way of understanding of grunting Brussels sprouts.You understood just the opposite I wrote and you can't accept the fact that countries in eastern Europe are greater than these in western Europe.Who is kid BE PEDERAZ GROZEN.NA MAIKA TI W USTATA.

Was ist, let's take a few steps back, hmmm? This thread is about the EU, and we're all trying to build rational cases as to what place the Balkan nations have in the EU, and what place Turkey has there. Now some of your earlier arguments were loosely connected to this subject, but quite frankly the above has absolutely nothing to do with it.

We've been over the numbers, and Turkey is stronger, economically, than Bulgaria. We've also discussed how Turkey would be a kind of "we're no fascists and accept other cultures"-state within the EU, then you stated Bulgaria should have that role, but you never backed up why Bulgaria deserves this role more, except for some racist slander towards the Turks.

Now I'm giving you a strike for being a racist and flame-baiting people, just as I gave Jebus a strike for flaming you. However, I know jebus will behave, but I know no such thing of you. Be clear on this, if you continue your racist slander, you will be banned.

By the way why did you made me a SQUAWKer

I did, because you're talking out of your ass, ignoring arguments and replying to things with arguments that have nothing to do with the original statement

 

[John Uskglass]

Difference is CC was constantly offensive, while Jebus is generally well-behaved.

Eh? I'd say Jebus is just as often offensive, he usually just does'nt comment on as many things as I do. Heck, look at the way he blew up in my face for correcting his Eurocentric myths.

Crucial...yes...yes...very important. I can't disagree with you there, but Westerncentrophilic history often has it that causes to the West being rich can only lie in...well...the West, ignoring such countries as Poland-Lithuania, Russia, Byzantium and the Ottoman Empire, so don't be surprised when you get opposition to this viewpoint.

Yes, the influence of the Ottoman Empire on Western modern history is underrated, but it's easy to overrate too

Yeah. But hey, I have an excuse to overrate it, as everyone else under rates it. I actually had a guy schoff at me when I said there was such a thing as "medivel greek".

Whoa there, that's a lot of lines being drawn without any clear connection being made, you make it sound like "Ball A hits Ball B hits Ball C", but consider Ball D to Z, who were also flying around the table at the time, I find it pretty hard to believe that Ball A is the only cause of Ball C. And it isn't.

Yeah, I agree here, but I would argue that these are a few huge events that caused it.

Wasn't really my point

It just was'nt inevitable that sea trade routes would become dominant.

Them being the movers were what incited the rest, but if they hadn't moved the others would've had to eventually. It just takes one to make the move and the others must follow. Hell, it could even have been Russia crossing over into Norther America for all I care, but someone would've moved. As I explained, GB and France especially had their backs against the wall and it's actually quite surprising that Spain, Portugal and Italy were first, and that's because of the causes you named. Without those causes, GB and France would've been

Because it's actually EXTREMELY hard to navigate the waters directly between GB and America, even today. Heck, the reason why Christopher Columbus was so succesful was because he set out from Seville, not the Canaries, as he went down the African coast (and actually developed his love of exploration in Nigeria, where the natives are peacful, attractive and promiscuious), then to the Carribeans from there.

Sad 'cause they're British and French.

I like French culture. I like going north to Quebec.

And I think you're just doing it here for purposes of humor...the British and the French where ALOT better for the native population then the Portugese or the Spanish...hell, there's a reason why the Dominicans, Cubans & stuff are 0% native...

 

[Jebus]

Eh? I'd say Jebus is just as often offensive, he usually just does'nt comment on as many things as I do. Heck, look at the way he blew up in my face for correcting his Eurocentric myths.

I said sorry, you know. Don't make me regret it...

And so I have a strike now, eh? Kewl! I feel so... baaaad now...

Anyway, since this thread seems to bring out the worst in me, I'm now going cold turkey from it.

(Get it? Get it? Eh? Eh? Eh? Get it? Get it? "Cold Tukey" eh! A Turkey joke! In a "Joke about Turkey" thread! Hahahaha! Get it? Eh? Eh? Eh?)

 

[Fas Ist]

Hmmm, let me guess... Could it be because of your blatantly stupid, racist, nationalist posts and attitude?

NO,no,no.I am not a racist.I like Negros,don't mind Indians(American and Asian Indians), I respect Japeneses,Chineses,Jews and so on including Arabians.I am racist in 1 way-I HATE TERRORISTS(not only Islamic,but every kinds of them).But you must understand people,whose development was stopped,women were sent to harems and Bulgarian kids were taken from their parents and put in Anatolia,where they were taught to be Turkish warriors.And after that these children could kill their own mother and father.So Bulgarians want fairness.But why don't ask a German to write what do he/she thinks about Turkey in the EU(this topic is about Turkey in EU,isn't it).And you had better invited a Turkish to write in this forum.

And you live in countries where people think that they are free to say as they please.So why did you warn me for several misconcepted replies??In fact i like Turkish doner,kebab,Turkish delight(you know what is it) and Arabic music(not stupid Bulgarian chalga).So I am not a racist!!

By the way-Why do people of the 2 parts of Europe are always quarreling for anything like apes.For example(the 2 sides are guilty)

I love it when people pull this card. Russians are apt to do it too. "We saved Europe"

and

Well Jebus,you prooved again the way of understanding of grunting Brussels sprouts.You understood just the opposite I wrote and you can't accept the fact that countries in eastern Europe are greater than these in western Europe.

 

[Jebus]

Bulgarian kids were taken from their parents and put in Anatolia,where they were taught to be Turkish warriors.And after that these children could kill their own mother and father.

Of course, one could of course also argue that these yeni çeri, or "Janissates" actually weren't all that bad off being raised at the royal court and all.

Also, since they were the personal elite bodyguard of the Sultan, they barely ever saw fighting. And when they did, I'm pretty sure it wasn't defenseless people they killed.



Because you know, I know where you're coming from. You've been indoctrinated.

Yes you were.

You might not believe it, but the Ottomans weren't a buch of religious zealots who wanted to raze Europe to the ground. Suleyman Kanuni (also called "the magnificent") and his offspring were quite intelligent rulers. They had no interest in conquering all of Europe.

Why? Because they, just as any other rulers in Europe, were more served by a balance of power. First of all, they wanted to retain that balance of power, and they even forged alliances with western rulers like François I to retain it. And when the time came, and they could expand their reign of influence with minimal risk, they did. You can't really blame them, you know. They weren't any worse, nor any better, then any other ruler in the world at that time. What you are suffering from, my friend, is a serious lack of historical perspective.

Also, believe it or not, but the Bulgarians under Ottoman rule were prolly better of than any other people in Europe. Why? Because the Ottomans were damn enlightened rulers for their time.
You see, while the Qu'ran does indeed preech in favor a dar-al-islam that encompasses the entire world, it also says that conversions can only come from the heart, and can not be forced on by violence. Furthermore, the Qu'ran also has clear guidelines that "The Peoples of the Book" (being christians and jews) may not be harmed. After all, Mohammed didn't see himself as a negation of those religions, but of a continuation of the Jewish-Christian tradition.

Therefore, the Ottomans were very tolerant rulers. Probably (read: defenitely) more tolerant than any other ruler in that part of the world. The Christians and Jews were allowed to practice their religions under the status of Dhimmi (protected minority). Furthermore, they were also allowed to organise themselves privatly under the system of the Millet, as long as they didn't start ghetto-forming.
Actually, the tolerance of the Ottomans was that renowned in the Middle ages and in the Early Modern Times Christians and Jews who fled from the inquisistion actually fled to the Ottoman empire.

On top of religious tolerance, the Ottoman state was also a heaven on earth for its stability and lawfullnes. You see, the maximes of the Sulans were very logical:

* Authority without an army is impossible
* An army has to be supported by national wealth
* National wealth is only possible if the people are able to thrive
* The people can only thrive if they have sufficient liberties and justice
* Justice can only be upheld with authority.

So you see, the Ottomans were perfectly aware that if you wanted to succeed as an empire, you had to keep your inhabitants happy, even those peoples you had conquered. Which they did, by offering them the best life that was possible at that time, in that world.






So why do you hate the Turks? Because you have been indoctrinated.

You see, history is written by the victors. It always is. And therefore, the propaganda that was used against the other nations at that time becomes the official "Histoire du vaincus".

The Western European rulers at that time had every interest in painting the most horrible picture they could of the Ottomans. After all, they were a threat to their own power... And when the glorious ages of the ancient Ottoman empire were over, this propaganda became the official history. And with that age-old propoganda, people like you are indoctrinated with false facts and beliefs. I would suggest you'd read some non-Bulgarian or overly biased books, and really educate yourself in Islamic history. I think you might be suprised as to how suprerior to the Western civilisation they were at that time...


SQUAWK!



(See how nice I was, everybody?)

 

[John Uskglass]

Excellent post Jebus, but by the Tulip period it began to go the ohter way.

 

[alec]

By the way why did you made me a SQUAWKer

I did, because you're talking out of your ass, ignoring arguments and replying to things with arguments that have nothing to do with the original statement.

Ha! In that case, shouldn't you give yourself a SQUAWK as well?

Funny thread, though, funny thread. You guys should just learn to respect each other's opinions. And grow up while you're at it.