Joke on Turkey in the EU

[Brother None]

Eh? I'd say Jebus is just as often offensive, he usually just does'nt comment on as many things as I do. Heck, look at the way he blew up in my face for correcting his Eurocentric myths.

Everyone blows up in your face, CC.

Yeah. But hey, I have an excuse to overrate it, as everyone else under rates it. I actually had a guy schoff at me when I said there was such a thing as "medivel greek".

It can't be helped, our history writing is so centered around the West...out of the dozen universities in Holland that offer good courses in history, only one does non-Western history. And even that one kinda sucks at it.

It just was'nt inevitable that sea trade routes would become dominant.

Yes it was. Remember, the reason the nobles rode along on the Crusades was because there simply was no more room in Europe and everyone area was getting cut up into smaller and smaller pieces, and the system didn't help on bit against the centrifugal forces pulling it apart. Considering the development in Europe ongoing from halfway through the 12th century, Europe had no choice but to expand.

Now let's cut out the Ottoman Empire. In this case the trade routes would have been open between the West and Asia and, if the Arab nations were weak enough, the neighbouring European powers might've made an attempt to expand into the Middle East and Norther Africa (these powers being basically Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece and most of all Russia).

But the reality is that the Middle East would still be too powerful to warrant invading, except maybe by Russia. But this leaves North-West Europe, especially the powerful France and UK, in the same position. Obviously, they didn't give a shit about America, but the powerful position of their southern neighbours would force them to look at their own power points in Africa and, more so, a new trading route. Even with some freedom, the trading route through the ME would probably, because of the narrow straights, still be dominated by one of the powers near there or one of the powerful seafaring nations, like Spain or Italy.


As for the Americas...

Because it's actually EXTREMELY hard to navigate the waters directly between GB and America, even today. Heck, the reason why Christopher Columbus was so succesful was because he set out from Seville, not the Canaries, as he went down the African coast (and actually developed his love of exploration in Nigeria, where the natives are peacful, attractive and promiscuious), then to the Carribeans from there.

Again, you are WAY overrating the Americas. Let me be clear on this, the Americas, both South and North, but especially Nort, were relevant for the colonial era, but their importants falls into nothing compared to the effects of Africa and Asia on the West.

And I'd like to point out again that there was another route to the Americas, one that the Russians did explore after Columbus had reached the continent. But the Russians never took too much active interest. They had other matters to attend to, and bordering to Siberia didn't make it more interesting. But they could've, and no doubt would've.

I like French culture. I like going north to Quebec.

Yes, sadly, north of Quebec would be Canadian culture, not French culture.

France would be French culture.

And I think you're just doing it here for purposes of humor...the British and the French where ALOT better for the native population then the Portugese or the Spanish...hell, there's a reason why the Dominicans, Cubans & stuff are 0% native...

Duh Gypsy.

NO,no,no.I am not a racist.I like Negros,don't mind Indians(American and Asian Indians), I respect Japeneses,Chineses,Jews and so on including Arabians.I am racist in 1 way-I HATE TERRORISTS(not only Islamic,but every kinds of them)

For a non-racist, you sure do talk like a racist.

And you live in countries where people think that they are free to say as they please.So why did you warn me for several misconcepted replies??

Because on these forums, people aren't free to say as they please anymore than they are in any country. Every country has its limitations on free speech, and so do we. Racism falls out of those limits here.

By the way-Why do people of the 2 parts of Europe are always quarreling for anything like apes.For example(the 2 sides are guilty)

My points was about the onslaught of the mongol hordes. It was a valid point, and you have made no effort to invalidate it, yet now it's quarelling as an ape?

Was, I seriously suggest you stay out of this discussion. You do not show people the courtesy to reply to any of their points, or bring up totally irrelevant points yourself. I don't know what's wrong with you. Maybe you're a moron, maybe this is just in your nature. Either way you're obviously not suited for serious conversations, and I ask you, disrespectfully, to get the fuck out.

 

[Sander]

I did, because you're talking out of your ass, ignoring arguments and replying to things with arguments that have nothing to do with the original statement.

Ehh.....wait, why did a certain someone then not get the SQUAWK thing? Hmm....

 

[alec]

Because, Sander, I'm giving myself a SQUAWK! That's right! I just love the image... It gives me a feeling of enormous well-being...

 

[Sander]

Because, Sander, I'm giving myself a SQUAWK! That's right! I just love the image...

Of course, I was in no way, shape or form talking about you.

 

[Brother None]

Ehh.....wait, why did a certain someone then not get the SQUAWK thing? Hmm....

Was ist?? didn't get the SQUAWK for ignoring statements, he got the SQUAWK for making racists statements *and* showing bad netiquette in the way he talks to people.

If you think Was ist's behaviour compares to what made you go all hissy-fit against CC, you're wrong and, quite frankly, should feel obliged to apologise to CC.

Ha! In that case, shouldn't you give yourself a SQUAWK as well?

For what?

Funny thread, though, funny thread. You guys should just learn to respect each other's opinions. And grow up while you're at it.

You are aware of the rule that only really immature people tell others to grow up, right?

And if you read the thread you might notice some normal rational debate going on as well, in between the racist crap being spewed.

 

[Sander]

If you think Was ist's behaviour compares to what made you go all hissy-fit against CC, you're wrong and, quite frankly, should feel obliged to apologise to CC.

No, I don't think that's comparable. I know very well that CCR makes statements that hold a lot more ground than his statements. I found the description of why you gave Was the SQUAWK thing quite fitting for CCR, though.

 

[alec]

Because, Sander, I'm giving myself a SQUAWK! That's right! I just love the image...

Of course, I was in no way, shape or form talking about you.

Shit! And here I was, thinking that all of a sudden I was the center of attention... Oh well...

Do tell me if I have to remove it... I don't want to confuse anyone, you know...

By the way: isn't it clear by now, that Was ist? ? ? doesn't know crap and is only asking for some enlightment?

 

[Brother None]

No, I don't think that's comparable. I know very well that CCR makes statements that hold a lot more ground than his statements. I found the description of why you gave Was the SQUAWK thing quite fitting for CCR, though.

Maybe so, maybe not, but look at the above conversation between me and CC. CC, probably much like Was Ist, is very young and convinced of viewpoints that he knows to be wrong or at least knows to be considered wrong by society. If you have a viewpoint which is "wrong" you either feel uncomfortable talking about it because you know the other side will prove you wrong, or you talk about it but are forced to use debating tricks so the other side won't be able to prove without a doubt that you're wrong, or at least considered wrong. But CC, unlike Was Ist, has thought his viewpoints over, and has a lot of interesting things to say in defence of them.

Shit! And here I was, thinking that all of a sudden I was the center of attention... Oh well...

Belkians

Do tell me if I have to remove it... I don't want to confuse anyone, you know...

Ehehehe, you sure got yourself in some av trouble lately

The Usama one was fine with me, y'know, but it was nice of you to remove it, for our American viewers.

By the way: isn't it clear by now, that Was ist? ? ? doesn't know crap and is only asking for some enlightment?

ehehehe yeh

 

[Jebus]

Belkians

oh god damn I hate your guts you goddamn dutchie i'll get you for this you know this madness has to be stopped

 

[John Uskglass]

Everyone blows up in your face, CC.

Yeah, they do.

It can't be helped, our history writing is so centered around the West...out of the dozen universities in Holland that offer good courses in history, only one does non-Western history. And even that one kinda sucks at it.

Jesus H-Christ. At least some rediculous percentage of you're population is English or otherwise foriegn language speaking. You're as bad as the Scandanavians in that regard.

Yes it was. Remember, the reason the nobles rode along on the Crusades was because there simply was no more room in Europe and everyone area was getting cut up into smaller and smaller pieces, and the system didn't help on bit against the centrifugal forces pulling it apart. Considering the development in Europe ongoing from halfway through the 12th century, Europe had no choice but to expand.

Now let's cut out the Ottoman Empire. In this case the trade routes would have been open between the West and Asia and, if the Arab nations were weak enough, the neighbouring European powers might've made an attempt to expand into the Middle East and Norther Africa (these powers being basically Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece and most of all Russia).

But the reality is that the Middle East would still be too powerful to warrant invading, except maybe by Russia. But this leaves North-West Europe, especially the powerful France and UK, in the same position. Obviously, they didn't give a shit about America, but the powerful position of their southern neighbours would force them to look at their own power points in Africa and, more so, a new trading route. Even with some freedom, the trading route through the ME would probably, because of the narrow straights, still be dominated by one of the powers near there or one of the powerful seafaring nations, like Spain or Italy.


As for the Americas...

Middle East was weak before the Ottomans. The Mamalukes hated all forms of technology, thus by 1600 it would have been a turkey shoot for any western power to take Cairo and Alexandrea and Damascus and Jerusalem.

Not to mention just how damn close the Iberians, weather Aragonese, Portugese or Spanish, came fairly damn close to taking N. Africa, and they certainly would have if it was not for the Ottomans.

Heck, the main reason the Ottomans went so far into the Mid-East was because the Hijaz asked thier assistance in thrwarting Portugese attacks in Aden.

Though I don't know what the British or the French would have done. But they just where'nt in a good position to find the Americas, as the water directly between the two continents was bad.

Again, you are WAY overrating the Americas. Let me be clear on this, the Americas, both South and North, but especially Nort, were relevant for the colonial era, but their importants falls into nothing compared to the effects of Africa and Asia on the West.

And I'd like to point out again that there was another route to the Americas, one that the Russians did explore after Columbus had reached the continent. But the Russians never took too much active interest. They had other matters to attend to, and bordering to Siberia didn't make it more interesting. But they could've, and no doubt would've.

What of the Carribean? Would you call that unimportant? Or the gold of South America?

You seem to be forgetting, whatchamacall it, the triangle trade between Africa (slaves, goods), America (where the slaves go to get cotton) and Europe (where they process the Cotton) that was so crucial to the Industrial Revolution.

Yes, sadly, north of Quebec would be Canadian culture, not French culture.

France would be French culture.

I mean going north of Chicago to Quebec. I really like Quebec, besides the fact that it's proof that the only thing Socialism does is ruin economies, it has good food, friendly people (generally, you just act like you think Quebec should be independant) and amazingly attractive women.

Duh Gypsy.

:

If you think Was ist's behaviour compares to what made you go all hissy-fit against CC, you're wrong and, quite frankly, should feel obliged to apologise to CC.

Thank you.

 

[Fas Ist]

offtopic:

: Excuse me,but what does CC mean : :terminator:

 

[John Uskglass]

offtopic:

: Excuse me,but what does CC mean : :terminator:

Me