Kotaku profiles No Mutants Allowed and hating Fallout 3

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by Sander, Jul 6, 2015.

  1. fred2

    fred2 Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    476
    Nov 2, 2013
    I am not going to bother to read the article, but I it is nice that the community got some exposure, and judging by the comments here a positive one.
     
  2. hokutonoken

    hokutonoken First time out of the vault

    43
    Feb 18, 2013
    They dont need go strong for a game that could very well be an additionnal case of bastardization of a good series. You know something smells fishy when advertisings about a rpg series with well written dialogs focuses on gunfights and Rex the invincible dog(and not really the true Dogmeat). Going strong on this would be like spoiling a whole pack of plasma gun ammos on rats.
     
  3. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I think people forget that most of us here have a live outside of Fallout. It's just fun to have like minded people around you. :grin:
     
  4. Jabberwok

    Jabberwok Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    358
    Jun 7, 2008
    Read the article, and then had to go play some Fallout 1. The wood frame comment made me take a closer look at Junktown's sheet metal buildings. Also, I had forgotten about the Mad Max reference when you find Dogmeat (if that's actually his name). It occurred to me that he's really more of a mangy cur than a noble companion.
     
  5. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Nov 26, 2007
    Welcome aboard!

    * This give quite a lot of information ~about the actual history of the first game; not the game fiction.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
  6. The Dopamine Cleric

    The Dopamine Cleric No. Orderite

    Nov 3, 2007
    Be sure to chill with Joey Diaz while you play.

     
  7. Gnidrologist

    Gnidrologist Wasted

    135
    Jul 15, 2004
    What a wishy-washy hogwash.
    First of all every criticism of Bethesda and their vision of Fallout (which was clear as mud from the get go - Oblibians With Guns) was received as ''hostile fallout fanboying'' by the Tes drones. Obviously, most of them didn't care about fallout games and were happy to see yet anther Tes game from their beloved developer, even if it's installed in the anal cavity of the necroed corpse of a third party franchise. Even the most detailed and civil posts that outlined why Bethesda shouldn't be doing Fallout, which was affirmed later, exceeding even most pessimistic estimates, were met by OH NAO, U HAV TO GO WITH TIMEZ, ITZ PROGRESS, WY HOLD ON TO NOSTALGIA, TURN BASED SUX LEL. There were plenty of reasons for hostility and cynicism from people, who loved the series. Roshambo was most hostile and outspoken of the ''glittering gems'' yet everything he said was truth.

    All this whitewashing and taming of history about this is lame. There is no need to be ''friends again'', unless you didn't care about Fallout and what it stood for to begin with.
    Because reposting all the corrupt/retarded media slurping the bethesda PR hype is what NMA should focus on, right? They lack another advertising plant.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
  8. PooftimusPrime

    PooftimusPrime First time out of the vault

    30
    Nov 25, 2008
    Nice read...a good trip back memorylane...
     
  9. Gonadius

    Gonadius First time out of the vault

    21
    Jul 7, 2015
    So you're saying that in your opinion, NMA should all but shut down then? After all, there won't be another traditional Fallout game. For whatever reason, (I'm sure its been mentioned) they don't report on Wasteland 2 (Yet MCA quitting his job is deemed worthy of being a news article), and despite MCA's efforts in releasing the dev tools for F2, precious little has been done with them - Or at least, precious little has been completed (Other than Killaps mega-patch/restoration mod).

    If you aren't saying that, what are you saying? What should NMA focus on, if not being a Fallout news site?

    Providing neutral - Or even negatively biased F4 news, is - In my opinion, what this site should be doing. Asking questions, which people here want answers to - Is this or that feature from New Vegas being added? How much have they dumbed down feature X? Have they blown the Voice Acting budget on one or two big names again?
     
  10. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Well, what's keeping you from asking those questions?
     
  11. PlanHex

    PlanHex Useless layabout oTO Moderator Orderite

    Nov 4, 2007
    No, Crni, you misunderstand. It is now the job of the newsposters to start speculation threads in the Fallout 4 subforum and also make that subforum a part of the front page.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  12. shihonage

    shihonage Made in USSR

    May 8, 2007
    Having been quoted in the article, I replied to it, but it will likely not get approved.

    http://kotaku.com/i-stand-by-every-word-i-said-about-fallout-3-all-it-re-1716171786

    I stand by every word I said about Fallout 3. All it really takes is looking at the “Nearly Ultimate Fallout Guide” and seeing just how much depth and reactivity was in the world. Once you read that thing and see how responsive the games were to your character build, actions, how much depth was behind its scripting, your opinion of Fallout 3 will change. HAS to change, if you actually deep yourself “open-minded”... and what a vastly abused term that is.

    To declare the originals to be “nostalgic outdated products of bygone era, etc” is intellectually lazy and reeks of ignorance. We have a generation of gamers who are unable to see beyond appearances, and naively believe that graphics engines and gameplay evolved over time at equal pace.

    This particular discussion is filled with content-free, kneejerk comments with people who either never played the originals, or they addressed them like a linear Diablo-type romp, “beat” them, and in return got exactly what they put into them.

    What really happened, of course, is that Fallout 1/2 were on the forefront of innovation in the late 90s.

    Since then, gameplay technology took giant leaps backwards. While the focus of F1/2 was on creating as convincing illusion of freedom as possible, modern games are merely walking simulators, where you’re still locked into the story like a straitjacket, but hey, you can travel all over a giant map, meaninglessly wasting time. Case in point: GTA, Far Cry, Skyrim/Fallout3.

    Mass Effect pretends to have choice&consequence, but it barely has any. The popularity of consoles ensured survival and thriving of the “dudebro” version of RPGs, where instead of gameplay depth or meaningful choices, you get awkward sex scenes.

    I never had to “draw maps” while playing Fallout. This statement betrays the article author’s ignorance of the franchise. Fallout’s interface was and is very workable, and the Steam version works fine on modern machines. And if you have a problem with small UI... lower your screen resolution. Problem solved.

    The irony is that Fallout 1’s 3D assets which were later dithered and scaled down into 640x480 8-bit graphics, had higher polygon counts and better artistic style than any models in Fallout 3. So despite the game looking pixelated or blurry these days, it has better aesthetics.

    It also has an easier-to-use, less confusing interface. It has color and character to its visuals, and its world was designed with some thought. The writing is compact and effective, and the dialogue system in itself is far ahead of Fallout 3’s, not to mention the DM-simulating description window.

    Fallout was an innovative game, at the forefront of many gameplay advancement which we never got to see expanded upon. Fallout: New Vegas took some of them, i.e. modular settlement outcomes, but it still wasn’t as reactive of a world on the same granular level as Fallout1/2 were.

    The world design was better, and was filled with memorable locations and characters. The freedom of player action was there. The writing was better. The combat was better. Your stats affected a ton more things than they did in Fallout 3.

    In Fallout 4, they already declared that the dog will be invulnerable, because they want to shove a bunch of cinematic scripting down the player’s throat.

    But why would the player ever care about the dog if the dog cannot die?

    Coincidentally, Dogmeat was one of the most attached-to characters in original Fallout. Players went to tremendous lengths to keep him alive, even though, through a gradual increase in combat difficulty, he was nearly-destined to die.

    Bethesda never got Fallout, and they never will. The article’s author gleefully mentions the series going away from its CRPG roots, as if that is good thing.

    This kind of lack of consumer discernment between genres is why I buy a shooter like Far Cry 3 and my first task is to skin boars to gain more bags for weapons, and then I buy an RPG like Skyrim and do essentially the same thing.

    This sort of meaningless genre interbleed is why I try to play Alien:Isolation and throw hands up in frustration when it makes me “craft” things. You thought old CRPGs wasted time? Oh Lordy, they got nothing on slow walking simulators and bear hide crafting time-wasters of today.

    In Fallout you could actually RUN. You could also speed up combat tremendously. The fast travel system was frustration-free and provided a great sense of a much larger world than there actually was, through its encounter system. Not all those encounters were about combat, either.

    Wasteland 2? Never was meant to be Fallout, never became Fallout. It was just Brian Fargo’s simplistic vision of Wasteland, Fallout’s spiritual predecessor, which nonetheless had more atmosphere and immersion factor than did Wasteland 2. Essentially he made a squad shooter, something like Fallout: Tactics, but with less atmosphere and depth.

    Protip: throwing tomes of filler text at “those nerds” doesn’t mean your game is deep. It just means you have a certain simplistic vision of your demographic, and in the end you’re making dog food. Quantity over quality and all.

    But anyway... there are many detailed criticisms that can be aimed at Fallout3, and have been for years. You can find them on NMA and RPG Codex, and I won’t repeat them all here. The bottom line is, Fallout 3 is more than a terrible game. Its success is a symbol of cultural decline.

    That decline is real, and this article and its comments represent the sordid reality of it all.

    Develop some intellectual curiosity, for god’s sake. Stop treating games like clowns that entertain you while you passively lay back on your couch. When you vote with your wallet, the industry has to change.

    It must change.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 8
  13. fred2

    fred2 Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    476
    Nov 2, 2013
    yeah.. and Interplay shouldn't have gone bankrupt, but who knows maybe someday the IP will return to its rightful place.

    I love critical interviews, but keep in mind that angry, self-righteous activist tend to end up on the sidelines, ignored and re-posting things. Also it is possible to be critical as well as informative, interesting and sometimes positve, meawhile your general verity angry teen annoys the hell out of everyone.
     
  14. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    The huge problem that NMA currently have is the lack of staff members dedicated to write stuff on a weekly basis.

    There are Fallout 4 & Fallout Shelter to talk about, sure, but also the regular improvements/enhancements on the classics, the very active mod community for Fo1-Fo2-FoT-Fo3-FoNV that keeps releasing stuff every days. There are some new isometric post-apocalyptic RPG like Wasteland 2, Age Of Decadence, Underrail, Dead State, Insomnia, Fallen:A2P Protocol, and others. If Fallout 3, which is a Fallout game by name only is covered, there is no reasons to not cover games like those, which are Fallout games in all but the name (to keep things overly simple). Also, there is ton of new indies RPG and indie post-apocalyptic games. I took a break for professionnal reasons, but when i was article writter for Fogen (french Fallout community that also deal with post-apo & manage to have both the 1st & 2nd generations of fans together), i have more than 10 indie post-apocalyptic games to talk about every months. And i purposly ignored AAA post-apocalyptic games. And we only scratched the surface of mods for the 5 main games of the IP, because there is just so many of them and you need a dedicated person just to explore them all. We also had a guy only dedicated to Fonline servers (didn't stay long). There is literrally an overwhelming amount of things to talk about. You just need people who have time to talk about them. (on the bright side, you don't have to translate the news in french)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  15. Ross_R

    Ross_R First time out of the vault

    2
    Jun 10, 2015
    Hello, I'm the 21 year old guy who played original Fallout and Fallout 2 in his youth, and who thinks that Fallout 3 is good, rightful game which deserves to be called Fallout. Right now I'm playing original Fallout again (thanks to this forum, I found modders who restored Heather in my game, so I can finally get good ending for the Followers, hurrah!), but I've spent 180 hours in Fallout 3. I think, that people who do not like Fallout 3 are horribly wrong. You should probably do what I did and install Killable Children mod and use console commands to make children in Little Lamplight drink whiskey and smoke tons of cigarettes....or maybe I'm just all-around sick, sick person.And yes, the story from the Pitt DLC is one the best I've ever saw, that's it.
     
  16. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    They aren't right or wrong for liking Fo3 or not.
    Those who like or hate it usually provide reasons about why THEY think the game is good/bad. You don't have to agree/disagree with them. At best you can try to understand them, read the reasons why they think that. At worst, you can ignore them. You can argue about feature X or Y being missing or improving the game, or other feature being detrimental to the experience for X or Y reason, but you can't blame people for their taste. Some Fallout communities just work despite having some members who outright hate Fo3 and others who only love Fo3 and ignore the rest of the series, as long as both kind of members focus on their own opinion and stop blaming others for not loving the same things they do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  17. Ross_R

    Ross_R First time out of the vault

    2
    Jun 10, 2015
    I just don't really get what was that article about. To start all the 3D Fallout vs 2D Fallout stuff? I'm having this debate everyday with the guy who lives nearby. I believe, they could found another way to write about NMA.
     
  18. hokutonoken

    hokutonoken First time out of the vault

    43
    Feb 18, 2013
    My main complaints about fallout 3 are:

    _lack of segment endings: each area doesnt have a specific ending that would refelect endings, something New Vegas has. I feel its typically something that make have me buy or skip Fallout 4

    _ the introduction of feral ghouls, which i couldnt help but see as a cheap way to introduce a new enemy. I wouldnt mind fighting ghouls with shotguns, because it would still make sense, and despite the background bringing a justification to their existences, feral ghouls are something i had hard times to accept

    _The content somehow became too correct, removing options like going to a brothel. I nver use that option, but the mere fact it exists brings more credibility to fallout 2 Universe.

    _The lack of memorability of "big boss". Fallout 1 and 2 both had awesome antagonists, The Master, the stupid president and Horrigan.

    _lack of power of soundtracks.


    _Fallout 3d games limit amount of companions you can have in a frustrating way, for technical and balance reasons, but after having 5 friends in fallout 2, i felt disappointed.
     
  19. Jabberwok

    Jabberwok Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    358
    Jun 7, 2008
    Nostalgia definitely helps, but I go back and play 90s games all the time that I never played when I was younger. Like Ultima 7. Waaay less accessible and more clunky than Fallout, but still a great game that is worth playing for anyone who likes RPGs. However, if I was a pre-teen right now, I suppose I might not have the patience for it. I think there are probably plenty of newcomers who would enjoy playing F1 and 2, but they aren't likely to be kids with short attention spans... or the guy in the article comments who wouldn't play Fallout because it didn't have mousewheel support.

    Fallout's graphics have aged pretty darn well compared to a lot of its contemporaries. But for all of these old games, I like to think that not all of the sales on GOG are because of nostalgia. Old movies look pretty dated too, but anyone who knows their sh*t knows they don't lose relevance because they're in black and white or have to use models instead of CG.
     
  20. Proletären

    Proletären Mildly Dipped

    560
    Mar 15, 2012
    Nice! But couldn't they at least have mentioned New Vegas and Wasteland 2? I think they are relevant titles for NMA since the release of Crapout 3