Krai Mira: Work in Progress MMO

[Tyyren]

Heh, I'm just using Yahoo! Babel Fish to figure out what the fuck the rest of it says. So far... not much help. Very basic. I'm just looking for some sort of... password. Something it asks for when I bring up the demo.

Well... now the thing says to "repeat a password" to register. But yeah, a whole lot of good just registering and getting through this will be... I'll be completely lost once I'm on the inside.

Oh... and this translation is my favorite. "The work on poultry is begun." Great job.

 

[Brother None]

EDIT: Sorry to contradict myself and pick up on this but it has nothing to do with this game and I'm actually interested in your reply. What about your views on skepticism toward Fallout 3? Do you see it as unhealthy but necessary, or you can admit that it has its own positive moments? I'm mentioning it because, among with such concepts as scientific skepticism and constructive criticism, I think it's a good example of positive aspects of those two and their relationship to reasoned analysis.

I think the problem with scepticism is not in its nature but in the fact that is is often expanded to be insular.

You name scientific scepticism. I think it was John Wyndham who once said that religious dogma is less exclusive in nature than scientific dogma. If science can't explain something, the first assumption it will try to jump to is that it never happened. That's typical of insular scepticism.

Same applies to us. I think scepticism is healthy, as long as it is coupled with constructive criticism. I think it becomes a problem when people lose sight of why they're being sceptical, when the default reaction to any news is negative. Like, I dunno, the reaction the the Collector's Edition or pre-order goodies. No reason to be negative there, really. I would even include the negative reactions to cryolator/mesmetron to this.

And, of course, the biggest problem occurs if this scepticism stretches over so people can't receive Fallout 3 with an appropriately blank mind anymore.

Still, this is why I like having intelligent opposition on this forum. If people jump to stupid conclusions, Bodybag, Autoduel and others are well capable of showing we're just being stupid.

 

[Augustus]

beautiful piece of 2D ISO graphics

Hope they'll open english website, and at least one english serwer.

 

[Tyyren]

beautiful piece of 2D ISO graphics

Hope they'll open english website, and at least one english serwer.

My thoughts exactly. It looks pretty sweet to me.

 

[iridium_ionizer]

Objectively speaking, I'd rather play Bethesda's Fallout 3 than this: no matter how bad of a Fallout game it will be, it'll still be a AAA-class title with infinitely better graphics and slightly more advanced gameplay options than the ones listed above.

Bull. You may be able to tell me that a AAA title will have better graphics than this, but you cannot tell me that a AAA title will necessarily have better gameplay. I have played tons of games that have gameplay that is more fun, more innovative, and just plain better than that of most AAA titles (Weird Worlds, Armadillo Run, etc.). I am sure everyone else here can name some too. Not to mention all of the now AAA titles that started out as indie titles and have basically only changed their graphics while leaving the core gameplay intact (Counterstrike) and how many indie games are selling like hotcakes on the X-Box, PS3, and Wii download services. Jeez if you claim to be a gamer why not try to broaden your experiences with games, or at least get a sense of history.

Besides, at least for me, this looks really bad even for a small project. I have my respect toward underpaid software developers, but that doesn't change the fact that low-budged titles are more often bad than not.

There is a world of difference between the low-budget titles that end up on the shelves of your local retailer (because they are usually half-bassed titles by companies just trying to make a quick buck) and the projects (at least the finished ones) that are created independently as a labor of love and then only bubble up to the surface when they have gained enough street cred on the internet through plenty of demo downloads.

 

[Brother None]

Not to mention all of the now AAA titles that started out as indie titles and have basically only changed their graphics while leaving the core gameplay intact (Counterstrike)

To name a better example. 2007 overall game of the year and most innovative game of the year Portal was basically Narbacular Drop with jumping. Narbacular Drop being the indie game which Valve found, hiring the game's developers.

 

[aronsearle]

Narbacular Drop with jumping. Narbacular Drop being the indie game which Valve found, hiring the game's developers.

Pretty smart move though.

 

[Sarla]

Don't care about what some of you think, I would love to try this game out way more than Fallout 3 (which I am planning on buying).

This looks like a Fallout mmo. Something I have longed for since I played FO2.

 

[Ranne]

I think it was John Wyndham who once said that religious dogma is less exclusive in nature than scientific dogma. If science can't explain something, the first assumption it will try to jump to is that it never happened.

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post, but I'd like to comment on this John Wyndham quote you mentioned. When scientific skepticism deals with unfalsifiable claims, many people somehow see that the burden of proof lies upon the skeptic. That is, the skeptic has to provide the proof that will discredit the unverifiable information. This kind of thinking (I think it's called "argument from ignorance") has often been applied to the irrefutability of most religious assertions, but it's also been widely criticized by many critical thinkers as being irrational. Personally, I like the original "Russell's teapot" analogy that says:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

Quick response to the other posts (thanks, iridium_ionizer, I have to get defensive again ):
I played Portal but I don't find it anywhere near the level of a good AAA-class title. To me, it was almost as overhyped as Fallout III. I'd even say that comparing Portal to, say, Call of Duty 4, Bioshock, Halo3 or GTAIV, is similar comparing an unusually-looking wheelbarrow to a Ferrari.

"if you claim to be a gamer why not try to broaden your experiences with games, or at least get a sense of history."

I've been playing games since 1991 and I worked as a game developer myself. At the risk of sounding too cheesy, I don't have to read about the gaming history - I've been living it for the past 17 years. From your link, I've played Audiosurf. It's a cheap rip-off of earlier, more complex games, namely PS2's Frequency and Amplitude. I found it overhyped, and this is exactly the point I am trying to make. Just because things are difficult for indie developers, it doesn't mean that their products should all get a criticism-free pass. My 4-year-old nethew draws really good pictures for his age. Does it mean his drawings are better than ones made by a professional artist with even average talents? Not in my view. I judge a game by the total value of its components, not by the story behind its development. Don't get me wrong, I'm still interested in the story, but I don't consider that in my evaluation. Nobody does. You won't pick a defective car over a fully functional one only because its maker had financial troubles and had to use inferior materials to save the costs, will you? Again, I don't dismiss all shareware/indie game projects. They can be fun, and they are almost always less expensive than high-profile commercial titles. As for this one, well, to be honest, I also have something I picked up during my gamer's experience. When a role-playing game developer claims "fulfillment of quests" and "raising the level of player’s skills" as ones of its main features, it most likely means that he has nothing better to include in the list. Compare it to a feature points out titles that actually have features worth mentioning:

"Game Environments - Based on several of the boroughs of New York City and parts of New Jersey, Liberty City, familiar to players of previous games in the series, has been entirely redesigned for GTA IV. Players can expect visible detail down to the weeds growing in the cracks in the sidewalk, cars and buildings of visibly different ages and a much greater level if verticality in the buildings and bridges that they are able to explore as Niko moves through the city streets. In addition, pedestrians in GTA IV are much more realistic. No longer simply moving cardboard cutouts, these NPCs are intelligent, modern, human representations that laugh, cry, eat, drink, use cell phones and As, and talking amongst themselves regardless of Niko's interaction with them."

# Control of a variety of land, sea, and air vehicles including trucks, tanks, boats, and helicopters.
# Explore a living, dynamic world where earthquakes, breaking ice, landslides, and tornados pose an ever-present threat.
# 32-player multiplayer with real-time armor and weapons customization, plus an all-new multiplayer mode that combines player modification and tactical objectives.
# Emergent gameplay means that in-game actions affect future outcomes and give each player a unique experience.
# Highly robust and easy-to-use mod toolset allows players to create their own expansive levels for both multiplayer and single-player modes.
# The CryENGINE 2 engine delivers the most realistic environments, spectacular special effects, physics game engine, lighting system, and enemy Al.

 

[Sarla]

When a role-playing game developer claims "fulfillment of quests" and "raising the level of player’s skills" as ones of its main features, it most likely means that he has nothing better to include in the list. Compare it to a feature points out titles that actually have features worth mentioning:

So Ranne, what is your idea of features worth mentioning other than the following that other games are using lately?

Player's abilities:
# Exploration of the World;
# Searching for resources and items;
# Barter and trade;
# Fulfillment of quests;
# Communication and barter with other online players;
# Fights with NPÑ – animals, people, mutants;
# Fights with other players;
# Raising the level of player’s skills;
# Getting new knowledge of the game world and teaching new skills and abilities;
# Crafting new items from ingredients;
# Stealing items;
# Players co-operation (collective and group fights, united exploration of new lands, collective quests etc.);
# Options to play for bad character;
# Fulfillment of Super-Quest with real winnings.

I've tried most "AAA" online games operated on the PC and personally I've not seen any of them actually offer anything much more different.

I must be missing something or misunderstood you. Like what else can an mmo offer other than what was listed? Save perhaps seige warfare or wow type raiding (biggest waste of time ever imo).


This gives me an impression of old style UO, 2D iso grafix except for the setting. I can honestly say I have never since had near the fun in any other mmo regardless of what they offered.

 

[Ranne]

What MMORPG doesn't include player movement, item gathering, player interaction, some form of item trading, quests, PvE and/or PvP fighting, leveling up, obtainment of new skills and/or abilities, and player cooperation in a form of grouping or raiding? The only non-trite feature I see in this list is "Fulfillment of Super-Quest with real winnings" and, if you excuse me, I'll abstain from commenting on this one
So if those are trite, why then are they described as the game's distinctive features? Surely, they could have come up with something more distinctive, original and even remotely exciting? You want examples? Here's some tidbits from Conan and Warhammer Online feature lists:

# Join one of six Armies and fight for the Armies of Order (Dwarf, High Elf and Empire) or
the Armies of Destruction (Greenskin, Dark Elf, or Chaos). Wage war across three unique battlefronts.
# Next generation Realm vs. Realm game system integrating both PvP combat and PvE quests on the same map in support of the greater war.
# Engage in four levels of RvR combat:
* Skirmishes: Incidental PvP combat
* Battlefields: Objective-based battles in the game world
* Scenarios: Instanced, point-based battles balanced with NPC Dogs of War
* Campaigns: The invasion of enemy lands culminating in the assault on their capital city
# Undertake a wide variety of PvE quest types related to an army's war efforts, including:
* Public quests thatbenefit from the participation of the entire army
* Conflict quests that pit players against an enemy with opposing goals
* Branching quests that let you choose the outcome of the quest and your reward
- Xmas quests that reward exploration with high value loot
# Player models that change to reflect the relative power of a character (i.e., Orcs grow in size and Dwarfs' beards get longer). Customizable armor and a visual guild system allow a player to make their character truly unique.

* An advanced combat system lets you choose every cut, thrust, and swing in real time.
* Groundbreaking graphics and advanced DirectX 10 features plunge you into a world of breathtaking beauty.
* A massive fantasy world based on over 75 years of books, movies, art, and music, developed in close collaboration with Conan Inc. to ensure the most realistic Conan experience ever seen.
* An unprecedented character development and customization system with combo attacks, skills, special abilities, and deadly spells ensures no two characters are exactly the same.
* Massive Player Versus Player combat. Capture battlekeeps and wage epic warfare between players and guilds, or hire yourself out as a mercenary and battle for pay!
* New and exotic classes, such as the Demonologist, Herald of Xotli, and Dark Templar, along with incredible twists on classics like the Ranger and Assassin.
* A detailed and engrossing crafting system, allowing you to make everything from armor and weapons to an entire city!
* Hundreds of unique quests for combat and crafting with extensive NPC interaction and voice acting, immersing you in the living world of King Conan.
* An extensive story-driven single player adventure to start the game drawing you deep into the scheming, seduction, intrigue, and betrayal of Hyboria.

Come on, guys. Whose of you who downloaded the 7.2MB Krai Mira demo and saw it in action, do you really believe it's a quality game worth comparing to big multimillion-dollar titles? If you honestly do, well, I guess we do have to respectfully agree to disagree after all.

 

[Paladin Solo]

Come on, guys. Whose of you who downloaded the 7.2MB Krai Mira demo and saw it in action, do you really believe it's a quality game worth comparing to big multimillion-dollar titles? If you honestly do, well, I guess we do have to respectfully agree to disagree after all.

That would depend on the actual quality of the multimillion-dollar title. More money doesn't necessarily make a better game.

 

[shihonage]

I just played Age Of Conan and all those millions were invested into making something that looks like a result of design-by-committee of 15-year-olds with no sense of gameplay or interface design.

Much like LOTRO, that game is a living manual on how NOT to make a MMO. I will be uninstalling it today.

Oh, and sad to say, but I already know Warhammer Online will be even worse. Been following that one for a while.

Budget is really not really tied to a game's quality.

 

[Public]

Not everyone wants to play multimillion-dollar tittle, because it a multimillion-dollar tittle and all our friends are playing.

Some...many people prefer old-school graphics and design with an interesting gameplay, rather than shiny-blink-blink-colourful-pop-consolish...thing.

I think it would be boring, if every game on the marker has the same graphics...actually we're living in these strange times, that is why I'll give Krai Mira a shot.

I like screens a lot!

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Hello shihonage,

Is Age of Conan really such a disappointment?

 

[shihonage]

Hello shihonage,

Is Age of Conan really such a disappointment?

It is to me. Most people find me disagreeable and jaded when it comes to games, but that's how I feel.

If you thought LOTRO was well-designed you might like AoC, however in my mind neither LOTRO nor AoC come any close to either WoW or City Of Heroes when it comes to getting the UI design and general feel of the gameplay right.

AoC looks like it had 50 artists and 0 designers, and it's a disease that permeates that game to the core.

 

[Brother None]

Enough AoC discussion. Take it to general gaming.

Also:

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post, but I'd like to comment on this John Wyndham quote you mentioned. When scientific skepticism deals with unfalsifiable claims, many people somehow see that the burden of proof lies upon the skeptic.

Neither me nor Wyndham were talking about burden of proof. Say this is a proposition that can neither be proved or disproved...rather than just accepting that it's a phenomenon we don't (yet) understand, science snubs it and refuses to spend any research on it or take it seriously in any way.

That's the difference between religious and scientific dogma. If religion sees something it can't understand, like a glowing ball in the sky, it assumes it has something to do with its religion and is real. If science sees the same thing, they assume it is swamp gasses. No discussion on burden of proof here, simply determining the exclusive nature of scientific dogma; anything that is not within scientific dogma simply does not exist.

But this is no place to discuss this.

Also also:

Come on, guys. Whose of you who downloaded the 7.2MB Krai Mira demo and saw it in action, do you really believe it's a quality game worth comparing to big multimillion-dollar titles? If you honestly do, well, I guess we do have to respectfully agree to disagree after all.

This is just a weird argument. "worth comparing"? One is an indie game, one is an AAA title. They're not supposed to be compared. I think you completely missed the point everyone is making: indie games have their own quality, separate in what you can expect from AAA titles, and they often offer high quality in their own way.

 

[Public]

BTW Ranne, you said you worked at gaming development. What happened you're not working anymore?

 

[ZiggyMeister]

This game reminds me of some other game I played before...

Could it be...

Yes, it is...

It reminds me of Fallout!

 

[Ranne]

BTW Ranne, you said you worked at gaming development. What happened you're not working anymore?

I moved from one part of the world to another. I'm still very much into modding and occasional freelance game development.

Shihonage, thanks for disillusioning me about AoC. Hopefully, Warhammer Online will be better. By the way, a game's budget is very much tied to its quality. For example, do you know that there practically aren't any public domain sound recordings under the U.S. copyright law? That means if I live in the U.S. and I want to get some quality music into my game project, I have no other viable option but to pay somebody for the license. Well, either that or start taking those banjo lessons Same mostly goes for artwork, programming, marketing, and any other aspect of game development. And what about Patrick Stewart? Do you know how much does it cost to get me one of those?