Legion/BoS war (Expect spoilers)

Faceless_Stranger said:
The Brotherhood also has superior training to the majority of the Legionaries. Loook at the Spartans that fought off the Persians, superior training is what allowed them to slaughter many times their own numbers, yes they were defeated, but give them Power Armor and Gatling Lasers, and I think they'll last even longer.
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Oh dear god I hate this innaccuracy. There were about 2000 other greeks as well. And training had very little to do with it, considering it was the place they chose that allowed them to defend it so well. Thermopylae was pretty much a bottle neck, and that was the reason 20,000 persians were killed, the training helped a bit. Remember, when the greek army was betrayed and they were flanked, their superiour training wasn't worth shit. If it had been any other place, they would've all been slaughtered by the time the uber-immortals got there
 
training had very little to do with it
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Oh really?

they would've all been slaughtered by the time the uber-immortals got there
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Would that be, say, because of superior training as opposed to common persian slaves?

Oh right, you don't know what you're talking about.
 
White Knight said:
If it had been any other place, they would've all been slaughtered by the time the uber-immortals got there
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Immortals were called that not because they're more resilient than normal soldiers, but because they're more capable of replacing their numbers.
 
Threepwood said:
training had very little to do with it
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Oh really?

they would've all been slaughtered by the time the uber-immortals got there
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Would that be, say, because of superior training as opposed to common persian slaves?

Oh right, you don't know what you're talking about.
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Yeah it didn't have much to do with it. there were 300 spartans bodyguards, who were raised from birth and very well trained. and there were 5000 greeks(turns out there were more than 2000 but this still isn't the definite number, varies from historian to historian) who were men who started traning at a later age. so it was mostly basic training at least. And we don't know how experienced these soldiers were. The reason they lasted so long was because Leonidas' good choice of location and tactics. Considering how it was mostly just average soldiers, I do think that 'superior training' had very little to do with it, because when thermopylae was suggested, it was chosen because of how EASY it was to defend. The Greeks were good soldiers, but training had very little to do with the battle of thermopylae considering the location. And to answer your second point, I meant that the persian army numbered at least 70,000 and by the time Xerxes sent in his Immortals, they would all be dead had it been any other location.

Of course, back on topic, this battle isn't a very good example for Fallout, considering that Lasers and power armour are involved. Maybe the BoS wouldn't need a Thermopylae.
 
White Knight said:
Threepwood said:
training had very little to do with it
Click to expand...

Oh really?

they would've all been slaughtered by the time the uber-immortals got there
Click to expand...

Would that be, say, because of superior training as opposed to common persian slaves?

Oh right, you don't know what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

Yeah it didn't have much to do with it. there were 300 spartans bodyguards, who were raised from birth and very well trained. and there were 5000 greeks(turns out there were more than 2000 but this still isn't the definite number, varies from historian to historian) who were men who started traning at a later age. so it was mostly basic training at least. And we don't know how experienced these soldiers were. The reason they lasted so long was because Leonidas' good choice of location and tactics. Considering how it was mostly just average soldiers, I do think that 'superior training' had very little to do with it, because when thermopylae was suggested, it was chosen because of how EASY it was to defend. The Greeks were good soldiers, but training had very little to do with the battle of thermopylae considering the location. And to answer your second point, I meant that the persian army numbered at least 70,000 and by the time Xerxes sent in his Immortals, they would all be dead had it been any other location.

Of course, back on topic, this battle isn't a very good example for Fallout, considering that Lasers and power armour are involved. Maybe the BoS wouldn't need a Thermopylae.
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Yet you said the Immortals were 'uber'?

You contradict yourself.

Take fifty librarians to Afghanistan, see how well they preform.
 
^I thought that uber-immortal was the name of the unit, but it turns out thats only in 300, a rather common mistake on my part. My apologies.

And Afghanistan and Thermopylae are 2 very different types of warfare. Thermopylae was a very conventional battle and afghasnistan is now a coventional vs. guerilla war. And afghanistan is a good example of how superior training isn't always the best. NATO forces obviously have the better training, yet its been 9 years since we invaded afghanistan and the taliban still have a presence. And I was talking about the soldiers having at least basic training in Thermopylae.
 
White Knight said:
^I thought that uber-immortal was the name of the unit, but it turns out thats only in 300, a rather common mistake on my part. My apologies.

And Afghanistan and Thermopylae are 2 very different types of warfare. Thermopylae was a very conventional battle and afghasnistan is now a coventional vs. guerilla war. And afghanistan is a good example of how superior training isn't always the best. NATO forces obviously have the better training, yet its been 9 years since we invaded afghanistan and the taliban still have a presence. And I was talking about the soldiers having at least basic training in Thermopylae.
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Uber is German for super. You think the ancient persians spoke German?

Anyway, there wouldn't be any coalition alive in Afghanistan if they were all untrained librarians.

Likewise, if the Spartans were all chefs, they would have most likley fled, or have run out of stamina, been overwhelmed, broke formation etc.

Training is extremley important.
 
White Knight said:
^I thought that uber-immortal was the name of the unit, but it turns out thats only in 300, a rather common mistake on my part. My apologies.

And Afghanistan and Thermopylae are 2 very different types of warfare. Thermopylae was a very conventional battle and afghasnistan is now a coventional vs. guerilla war. And afghanistan is a good example of how superior training isn't always the best. NATO forces obviously have the better training, yet its been 9 years since we invaded afghanistan and the taliban still have a presence. And I was talking about the soldiers having at least basic training in Thermopylae.
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Considering how many of the people in Afghanistan have been in wars literaly since the late 70s I would go so far to say that they have the better training compared to any NATO unit (if we dont count specialiced forces). Simply for the fact that many of them are used with the kind of combat that happens in Afghanistan, like fighting against some in almost every way superior force with what you have.
 
Threepwood said:
White Knight said:
^I thought that uber-immortal was the name of the unit, but it turns out thats only in 300, a rather common mistake on my part. My apologies.

And Afghanistan and Thermopylae are 2 very different types of warfare. Thermopylae was a very conventional battle and afghasnistan is now a coventional vs. guerilla war. And afghanistan is a good example of how superior training isn't always the best. NATO forces obviously have the better training, yet its been 9 years since we invaded afghanistan and the taliban still have a presence. And I was talking about the soldiers having at least basic training in Thermopylae.
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Uber is German for super. You think the ancient persians spoke German?

Anyway, there wouldn't be any coalition alive in Afghanistan if they were all untrained librarians.

Likewise, if the Spartans were all chefs, they would have most likley fled, or have run out of stamina, been overwhelmed, broke formation etc.

Training is extremley important.
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Yes I think training is important too, but it wasn't very important in thermopylae compared to the location. I have said this before and I have also said that their training didn't matter when they were flanked. And must I repeat that I was talking about the greeks having basic training, and please stop referring to the army as the spartans, it was mainly other greeks. The main greek soldier was a hoplite and they are described as being a Free Citizen with their own armour and spear. So they could've all been chefs before they volunteered, and they managed to hold thermopylae for 3 days.
 
What a silly discussion, realy. You guys should not use to freely realistic comparisons because the technology and situation are fictive.

However in the context of the Fallout story and narrative its completly obvious that the BoS in the Mojave is no match for the Legion in the end.

Yes yes sure, the BoS is no pushover and they can mount and incredible firepower yadda yadda...
In the end they cant match the Legion or the NCR.

They can however break the stalemate. Imagine the Legion storming hoover with the BoS giving fire support or the same with the NCR defending it.
 
unbelievable. YOu dont just have only the look of her, but also Lynettes behaviour :D

*but youre right nonetheless :P
 
We were comparing it too fallout? I was just arguing my opinion on whether or not training was the major reason the greek army held out for so long. All we are saying is our opinion so neither of us are right. Anyway, Lynette is right except for the BoS helping the legion. They believe in free will, however aggresive they may have turned out.
 
COnsidering the Legions hate or disslike for technology I would as well doubt some alliance with the Legion and Bos would be a reall possibility.

But I dont think the BoS would have any problem with that as long they could gain something from it, like as said technology.
 
My BoS/Legion sentence was meant as an example. Like saying: "Imagine if the Empire and the Rebellion would work together. Completly out of context so to speak.

*sigh* I realy doubt anyone in these fora is able to pass the Citizen test.
So what next ? Africa Corps vs L.A.P.D. perhaps ? *snickers*
 
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