Let's Talk About #2: Religion and My Life [Might Be A TL;DR]

I'm an Agnostic. To sum it up.

I believe it's naive to think that either science or religion could hold the answers to our existence. It's just beyond our comprehension. If a God does exist, we'd never be able to understand it.

We're unimportant little organisms eating, sleeping and reproducing on a little blue planet. The workings of the Universe are beyond us. It's like a slug trying to read the schematics to a nuclear power plant. It just doesn't have the capability to understand what it's wriggling around on.

We can use science to decipher and understand what we're capable of understanding, sure. We can get a grip of the world around us and the way that works, but to claim that it's possible for anything to hold all the answers is just plain silly.
 
By the way; I do believe that we all must find our "Missing Link" in this life if we ever want to know peace.

I've figured out what my Missing Link is. I haven't found it, but I've figured out what it is. It's a woman - romantic companionship. And that really sucks knowing that that's my "Missing Link". But I've pretty much come to terms and accepted the fact that I will never feel like I am at peace again until I find romantic companionship and have a family of my own, even if it's just a family of two. And yeah, believe me, knowing this sucks. But it's right. It explains all my feelings of utter loneliness, etc. etc. What sucks even more is figuring out how a poor (monetary wise) scrub like me is going to FIND that missing link.

We all have a "Missing Link". The trick isn't figuring out what it is, it's "finding it". And once we do we're "connected" again, we're "centered" once again just as we were as children.

Also, this got way more replies than I thought. I figured it would be your usual "nobody gives a shit" topic that would garner like - five replies at most.

Wumbology said:
"Science is always there"

Science is a way to explain phenomena. It is NOT an answer to social or moral problems, and never will be. Religion IS an answer to social and moral problems, and has functioned as such for thousands of years.

Really, some basic tenants of Christianity: charity to the poor, selflessness, love for all men. Bad, outdated how?

Certain portions are outdated, but again, Christianity is a moral philosophy and is still valid after 2000 years, because some basic social problems never go away (and civilizations are always prone to the same errors). Religion is a way to cope with basic human problems in agrarian civilization. Is it the perfect solution? No.
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One of the primary problems with Christianity - is with the Bible. After so many years of re-translations being written in another language, again and again, and with the Catholic Church meddling with the Bible, the "Gospel" has been diluted to all hell. Half the stuff that's in there now is probably completely screwed up from the original intended message.
 
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Wumbology said:
"Science is always there"

Science is a way to explain phenomena. It is NOT an answer to social or moral problems, and never will be. Religion IS an answer to social and moral problems, and has functioned as such for thousands of years.

Really, some basic tenants of Christianity: charity to the poor, selflessness, love for all men. Bad, outdated how?

Certain portions are outdated, but again, Christianity is a moral philosophy and is still valid after 2000 years, because some basic social problems never go away (and civilizations are always prone to the same errors). Religion is a way to cope with basic human problems in agrarian civilization. Is it the perfect solution? No.
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In general? I would say no. Christian values hold very little merit in our time today, if they ever did - I would also say that it is rather a bit arrogant to place christian believ on such a high podium. The same goes for many other religious systems. Including the Islam or even Buddhism. No one can argue that they don't have messages which sound good, just like you say, charity and selflessness. But, as anyone knowing the one or other thing about religion can confirm, they are just one rather small part of it. Take the Bible as best example. And there are many more religious texts.

We don't need religion to teach us such lessons. I am not saying religion is inherently bad. It had it's role in history and it was for a very long time the beacon of learning and understanding. In the early history of Europe monasteries have collected and kept a lot of knowledge and they did a decent job. But it is way more complex than just charity or helping other people. We see this when ever the question of feminism or homosexuality comes up today in the vatican for example. And at least today, with it's values, religion is more often than not a hindrance and source for political regress. I would never go so far to call all of those that are religious fanatics, far from it, most people are rather moderate. But when I see how far missguided religious believs like creationism and so called moral reach even into the classrooms of schools ... than I can't help it but question it as a whole.

I acknowledge the fact that religious teachings have been the principle for many positive changes or at least playing some role - " ... that all men are created equal", like the idea and principles the founding fathers in the US had. But reason and logic have also lead to the same progress, greek democracy and phylosophy as one example.

Like I said, religion isn't something evil. But it has a tendency to be a hindrance to progress.
 
I WANT to be able to laugh at the sharp irony of someone talking about the limitations of understanding while talking mentioning "the man in the sky", but the fact is that it's just too pitiful to laugh at. The lack of self-awareness is painful.

Also, Wumbology, you were a Scientologist? The fuck??? HOW did you get out?????
 
Made yuo post.


I am a Philosopher without an academic bureaucracy to subscribe to. That means that I go out and suck up everything about everything and try to make sense of it internally.


So I am an agnostic atheist Jew that believes in the power of Jesus Christ and our Prophet Muhammad to guide us into the holy land where our friend Buddha gives us mushrooms and extacy, while we dance through fields of symbols and ideological concepts, inside the womb of existence, vibrating around the midwifes of the Upanishads, to give reason to Confucius's gangbang, while he has his dick up the ass of zen, in the garden of Gaia, on the eve of the feast of the summer solstice, praising the invocation of the lesser hexagram, conjuring the keys of Solomons Goetic 4th dimensional orgasmic possession, whilst clinging to the icons of the pagan hierarchies, on the branches Yggdrasil's Kantian ethics, outside the pummeling and piercing knives of Hagel and Aristotle, holding to the paradigm of the Socratic sacrifice, inside of Plato's Nietzschean vision of a constructed Wittgensteinian language construct of computer code, inside the singularity matrix of the multidimensional elven big bang theory.


Grade in English Grammer, F-.


The basic idea, is that you better be able to put your ideology on the table and let the criticism come, because we all look at the universe through a keyhole, and opening the door is death itself.
 
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The Dopamine Cleric said:
So I am an agnostic atheist Jew that believes in the power of Jesus Christ and our Prophet Muhammad to guide us into the holy land where our friend Buddha gives us mushrooms and extacy, while we dance through fields of symbols and ideological concepts, inside the womb of existence, vibrating around the midwifes of the Upanishads, to give reason to Confucius's gangbang, while he has his dick up the ass of zen, in the garden of Gaia, on the eve of the feast of the summer solstice, praising the invocation of the lesser hexagram, conjuring the keys of Solomons Goetic 4th dimensional orgasmic possession, whilst clinging to the icons of the pagan hierarchies, on the branches Yggdrasil's Kantian ethics, outside the pummeling and piercing knives of Hagel and Aristotle, holding to the paradigm of the Socratic sacrifice, inside of Plato's Nietzschean vision of a constructed Wittgensteinian language construct of computer code, inside the singularity matrix of the multidimensional elven big bang theory.
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I like this religion. Start a church.
 
The Dopamine Cleric said:
The basic idea, is that you better be able to put your ideology on the table and let the criticism come, because we all look at the universe through a keyhole, and opening the door is death itself.
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Is it opening the door that's death itself, or is death the only way to open the door?

Rhetorical question aside a nice summary of how it ought to be.
 
I refuse to take any position. I think, beyond a point (which I long ago reached), the whole discussion is a waste of time.
 
Your loss, then.

I sometimes toss the word "enlightenment" around, but I get the feeling, like my "sharp irony" post, that people completely miss the context with which I'm making those statements. "Enlightenment" isn't some kind of "understanding of all things", it's LITERALLY learning a thing. You become enlightened if you learn how to properly cook a steak without ruining it or serving it too raw. You become enlightened when you become potty trained. These are all smaller forms of enlightenment, but enlightenment nonetheless. It doesn't have to be as grandiose as solving the answer to the universe to be enlightenment.

Desiring nothing to do with "the conversation" means you forsake any chance at any degree of enlightenment, no matter what or how insignificantly small it might be, and I just don't understand that logic at all. As they say in Dota2, "You miss 100% of the Arrows/Hooks you don't throw." As it is with enlightenment of any kind, you never learn anything if you don't pursue the opportunity.
 
What Walp said. Understanding the celestial is like trying to think about space being finite or infinite, like Snap said. I do believe there is a logical explanation to everything and how it works, its just understanding that logic which causes the problem. This is so true is so many ways. All we can truly understand as human beings looking into the face of religion, is that we understand nothing.
 
None of you are right about anything because my God said so.

I don't think any organized religion can ever truly get it right. Nor can science for that matter. We will likely die as a species before we figure it all out.
 
*shrugs* it's not like science has to. Science just explains how the world works not the reasons for it's existence.
 
Crni Vuk said:
*shrugs* it's not like science has to. Science just explains how the world works not the reasons for it's existence.
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No it doesn't have to. I just want it to. My meaning about science is we always have a thousand different theories going about the nature of the universe and so on and so forth. I don't think there will be a point where science disproves religion. I can't help but think there is an infinite amount of space out there and we are stuck way the fuck out in the middle of nowhere with no chance of ever getting anywhere else. We can't even hope to reach our neighboring galaxy and we hope to solve the mysteries of the universe. People expect their one isolated religion to get everything right while disbelieving all the rest in the world. Maybe a couple hundred years ago someone could say their religion is the only right one due to not being exposed to them all, but how can someone be so sure today? I could have been born a Muslim if raised in the Middle East. Or a human sacrificing nutter a thousand years ago. I can't wrap my head around the Judaic Christian based world view anymore. I could be worshiping Satan for all I would have known a few hundred years ago, at least according to Christian sources. Yet this is the dominant religion that is stuck in the past. A religion that nowhere resembles the one in the Bible anyway.

I believe there is some sort of higher power outside the boundaries of our known universe, but I'm sure he/she/it/they/? doesn't give a fuck if my friend is gay, or how much money they give to a church that wasn't ever meant to exist in the form it is in today. I'm sure this hypothetical God doesn't advocate mass genocide, burning at the stake, Jihad, molesting young children, etc.. Actually if this God (or Gods if you like) exists I'm sure they want you to be happy, not a miserable sack of shit that protests at gay soldiers funerals, or preaches against contraceptives in Third World countries. I'm sure religions of all kinds would get more converts if they actually preached tolerance of others as opposed to harsh condemnation. I've seen shit that would turn your hair white, so I believe in something beyond our comprehension, but not one of us can imagine what a Godlike being would even begin to think, do, or look like. I'm sure if they do exist they don't look like animal hybrids, Father Time, or some sexy whore Goddess. Of course that's, just, like, my opinion man. :grin:
 
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No it doesn't have to. I just want it to.
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That's a dangerous path though. One strong part of science is the objectivity. At least that's how I feel about it. I would even go so far to say that things like moral or feelings should never have any place in science. It has proven that a false sense of morals has more often than not been a problem. Don't dare to prove the world is round! You will burn in hell for your heretic views! Or the idea that blood transfusions are wrong. But I feel we are both more or less on the same page here ;)

On the other side, when ever Science also starts to give things value, it's also on the wrong path. Sciene should never ever try to explain the meaning of the universe. So in other words Science should be a start, not the end.

Of course all just pipe dreams. We are humans and as such we tend to make errors, making decisions based on our limited mind and senses. So true objectivity is of course impossible.

My meaning about science is we always have a thousand different theories going about the nature of the universe and so on and so forth. I don't think there will be a point where science disproves religion.
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As Neil DeGrasse Tyson said, Science is always at the drawing boards. If not, it would do something horroribly wrong.
 
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