Lonesome road worst DLC?

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Josan12, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Josan12

    Josan12 Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 15, 2007
    SO i just finished Lonesome Road and boy, what a relief. I liked the high road and the, rightly famous 'deathclaw dropping on the bus roof', but my god, the writing! Did anyone else find the writing total crap? I got totally sick of Ulysees inane ramblings after only the 2nd recording! I skipped through the rest. And the 'other' ED-E? Ouch. I mean really ouch. Awful. Seemed like it was written by, well, someone with absolutely no idea of how to write a character! As if it was someone's first try at writing!. Just really juvenile and tepid.

    I find it really strange as OWB was excellently written. Really interesting to follow. As is the main game (mostly). HH was weak, sure, but now i've played LR it makes HH writing seems rather good.

    And running around blowing up 'nuclear warheads'?!?! Surely it was all intended as kind of a joke?!

    Please tell me Dead Money isn't in such bad humour?
     
  2. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    For me it was good. actually my second best DLC of NV. Ulysses' dialog is differ to what faction a have helped and it sounds reasonable for me. it's kind of butterfly effect, what Courier do is just deliver a package but it destroy the whole Divide. than who should be blamed? it won't be strange to blame Courier to destroy Divide since what Ulysses know is Courier delivered it.


    why Ulysses blames both Legion and NCR?
    because Divide was at war because of complict between NCR and Legion. and since he was Legionary, he hates NCR.
    Because Legion destroyed his tribe and let him to destroy New cannan he is skeptical to Legion. so what he want to do is remove both from Mojave and after both big faction. after both NCR and Legion removed, Mojave will begin civilization again as Divide and new cann did. to do that, he shots nuke to supply rout of NCR than NCR in Mojave will be weaken and defeated by Legion. after Legion's victory Legion will be collaps by their own because there are any other big enemy for Legion. while this happening Legion will wipe out minor factions like House, Boomer, BOS etc. and after that, people start to make another Nation with electrocity, clean water and crops thanks for Hoover dam. it's quite reasonable I think.
     
  3. Makta

    Makta The DICKtator

    Jul 29, 2010
    It got the F3 feeling for me.. Great "world" with a lot of new and interessting stuff! But the story is kinda meh so i'll just ignore it after the first time.

    It is my fav DLC after playing trough OWB way to many times and like all the dlc's it gives you way to much loot/cash.

    Worst is HH no doubt about it. Poor companions poor voice acting for one of them. The quest*s* are boring and the only awesome thing besides the landscape.. If you like that is the survival catches.
     
  4. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Tastes differ, while the storyline and the consequences could really have been stronger (I think this DLC should have taken place after you finish the main campaign) I found the setting very atmospheric.

    Sadly the mod community has not added any interesting new stuff to it but I would really like to see mods that open up closed locations in more interesting ways, and like what some modder already did, add a ruined Vault to the Divide.

    It wouldn't need a separate subquests or loads of enemies and loot, just going through this Vault and reading about the last days of the Vault Dwellers.
     
  5. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010
    I loved the setting, but it was far from perfect.

    As atmospheric it may have been, destroying nuclear warheads which apparently have a blast radius of a car engine (?) was really ruining it for me.

    The experience is very linear too, but I didn't mind that, since the accent was on the storyline, but again, nukes left a bad taste in my mouth.

    As for writing...it was okay?

    I liked Ulysses maybe more than I should have, being hyped about finally meeting him (remember, there are hints about him not only in the vanilla game, but also in every previous DLC - and Lonesome Road was supposed to be played last), and the mystery surrounding him was fine with me. His voice-acting was good, and the specific "bookish" manner of speaking was something I appreciated.
    I personally liked his character, and was satisfied with the choices presented at the game's ending.

    In the end, what may have been a minus, in a way, is that, unlike the rest of the game (including DLCs) your choices mattered and resulted in, of course, proper consequences. In LR, you're basically given a predefined past and choices, for which you bear consequences in presence. That wasn't bad, but it stood out from the rest of the game quite a bit.


    However, a bit of bad spice can ruin the meal, and all those nuclear warheads did ruin the experience quite a bit to me. If anything, it reminded me of the unreasonable, and dare I say, disrespectful manner Fallout 3 treated nuclear weapons (Fat Man etc.), which is in stark contrast to how nukes are presented in first two original games.


    All in all, however, I liked the DLC. It comes of as a third on my list, behind DM and OWB, but in reality, I liked all of them.
     
  6. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hi Atomkilla,

    It is not an excuse but from what another poster told me who has more knowledge about nuclear technologies, nuclear warheads need to reach critical mass in order to result in the familiar all consuming firestorms.

    Destroying the warheads conventionally like in LR probably would make them more like a dirty bomb (the linked explosives inside not causing critical mass).
     
  7. Josan12

    Josan12 Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 15, 2007
    Yes, i think i agree with the F3 - although i've never played actually played F3!. From what i've read it essentially sounds like F3 is aimed at 'kids' and Vegas aimed at 'young adults' as a broad generalisation. As Atomkilla says - something like the ludicrous 'nuclear warheads detonating like car engines' is really juvenile and obviously aimed at kids. Somewhat like the exploding cars. It's such a shame as OWB really maintained the NV standard of 'adult' writing and concepts.

    Yes - i should give more credit to the atmosphere. The collapsed overpass (with those nasty tunnelers) was pretty cool, and the concept of a huge gash in the earth is nice. But there was one thing that again came across as really juvenile - all the buildings scattered around leaning on their sides. Sorry - buildings (tower blocks) don't lean like that. They're treated like toys scattered around with no understanding of structure. Any force strong enough to put a tower block on it's side (or at 45 degrees) would simply destroy it.

    Yeah, the loot was massively unbalanced. Way too much. OWB pushed it, and LR, in my view tried to make up for the fact it was so weak by showering the player in loot....
    ... And then someone came up with the idea of those ridiculous commisar things!?! i can just imagine the conversation: "i know, lets have a communicator thing on the wall the player tot which the player can sell all the loot we give them" WHAT?!? Unbelievable to say the least. Belief-breaking yes.

    I don't know - i guess i'm dissapointed after OWB set the bar so high.
     
  8. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    I personally found "Lonesome Road" an excellent DLC. My main gripes with it were largely functional. I hated how overpowered the enemies in LR and OWB were, compared to EVERYTHING ELSE. You could beat "Dead Money" AND "Honest Hearts" with a level 1 character (that is, you'll START at level 1, but finish them closer to 10), because the enemies aren't unreasonably powerful, yet they still pose a challenge at all player levels. But Marked Men? Sure, let's give them AMRs! Sure, let's script them to KNOW where you are, regardless of your Sneak ability and the level of stealth you approach each barricade. I don't mind some scripted events, like blowing up your first Warhead and a group showing up in response. That was pretty cool... in concept. The execution left much to be desired, but the idea of making large explosions causing small groups to investigate and leave me in a closed space with curious hostiles was a nice touch.

    But most of all, I wished that LR, like ALL of FONV's DLCs, had triggers to start them, not be triggered at the beginning of the game. I would have loved to see a "recruiter" in Freeside or North Vegas that tipped the courier off to joining the Happy Trails Caravan into Zion Valley and thus starting off "Honest Hearts". I would have loved to see some kind of event draw the Courier to the crashed satellite that brought them to BigMT and began "Old World Blues". As mentioned by others, LR was "intended" to be completed last, so I really wished that there were some triggers put in place that would delay Ulysses contacting the Courier with his message until certain prerequisites had been met, such as completing the rest of the DLCs first. I understand that because they had to be treated as separate and compartmentalized "packages", since it was up to the player to decide how many and in what order of the DLCs they would even purchase, if any at all, but that doesn't mean a few lines of code couldn't have been written to take this into account. If you ONLY have LR, place a time delay, and you must have spoken to Nash about the "Original Courier 6" before Ulysses contacts you. If you have some, but not all of the DLCs, you must complete them first before Ulysses will contact you. Etc etc...

    But I had zero problems with the writing, so I cannot relate to all the negativity you have for it, Josan. I found Ulysses to be a well constructed, effectively portrayed, and relatable character, even if I found his plans to be monstrous. There's a great many, really powerful reasons that I consider Ulysses to be the second best Fallout antagonist of all time, because for being one mere man, he has an incredible presence, both in terms of story, and in terms of actually meeting and speaking to him. The more pieces of his backstory you pick up, the more you realize that he's experienced life changing events that have left him disillusioned and hellbent on completing a task that would shake the entire Core Region of the Wasteland. I only wish that stopping Ulysses had been the final confrontation of the game, not a DLC that you could revisit, and had to complete prior to the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam. After facing the horrors of the Divide, the petty politics of the Mojave just seemed trivial to me.

    The one and only "writing" qualm I had with "Lonesome Road" was the assertion that Ulysses was there when "The Divide" happened, yet he was the one and only person to NOT be instantly ghoulified and flayed alive and transformed into a Marked Man. Okay, he was lucky in that the medical bots tended to him, but it's still a stretch that the more I think about the more I doubt. But in the grand scheme of the DLC, that's still just a tiny spec of a qualm compared to all the rest.

    I take it that means you (for reasons I can't fathom) haven't played it? Well FIX THAT!!! "Dead Money" is EASILY the best add-on to the original game. Even the simple consequence of "once you leave, you can never return" makes you approach the DLC in a completely original perspective. Every DLC for FONV was designed with a specific theme in mind, and DM rammed home the theme of "Greed" PERFECTLY. Even if you find yourself at the Sierra Madre purely because a compass marker drew you there, when you arrive, you will genuinely feel a powerful attachment to the wealth you'll find. You won't want to leave all of it behind, but you'll have to. It was brilliantly designed, and the backstory surrounding the place was made to match it, flawlessly. The characters, the story they provide, the setting, the plot, it's all stellar. "Dead Money" is pretty dark and the vast majority of the time spent you'll be fighting for survival, an aspect of the Post Apocalypse that hadn't been covered effective until DM. For a "mere casino heist", the plot surrounding the events of DM are monumental and it's really a shame that the events that take place during the Courier's time at the Sierra Madre go completely unheard of in the rest of the wasteland... It's like if the Vault Dweller beat the Master and destroyed the Vats, and nobody ever heard about it. At least he became a legend, regardless of how many people believe in it...
     
  9. Languorous_Maiar

    Languorous_Maiar A Smooth-Skin

    688
    Oct 25, 2011
    Imho Lonesome Road is wort DLC from FNV, because of one thing, which I can't accept no matter what.

    It bring old Fallout 3 non-logic story...
    Nuking entire NCR or Legion?
    NO ONE cares... even endings still mentions nuked cities in west like Hanlon becoming senator of Redding but hey! Redding doesn't exist!

    I'm still wondering why Obsidian decided to fckd up all that great immersion.
     
  10. Josan12

    Josan12 Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 15, 2007
    Hmm. Well, if i ever play through LR again (which doesn't seem too likely tbh) it sounds like i need to pay more time and attention to Ulysees. The thing is - in OWB i really enjoyed his logs and thought 'damn, i can't wait to meet this guy'. They seemed to fit in somehow so much better in the big empty though. At the same time, his over-enigmatic way of speaking was a bit grating to me, and in LR just got unbearable.

    Dead money is my next and final DLC before i finish off the rest of NV. I play ironman so it has taken me this long, and some horrifying deaths to get as far as LR (though as someone pointed out, LR is supposed to be played last but i read DM is really hard)
     
  11. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    No Ulysses don't shot entire NCR or Legion.
    He admits that missle can't kill NCR or Legion but can break their supply line so both NCR and Legion in Mojave will dry to die.
    It's reasonable since NCR suffer from losing supply line(Divide) so cutting another supply line causes big loss of NCR.
    That's what Ulysses learn from Courier.
     
  12. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Personally I think Lonesome Road should actually play after you finish the main campaign as the ending of LR would seriously affect the NCR, Legion or both. (and of course the Mojave)

    In an ideal world you would have been able to recruit Ulysses during the main game, when undertaking certain quests for either NCR or Legion it would trigger certain decisions Ulysses makes.

    Then after finishing the main campaign Ulysses would disappear but not before leaving you a message to come follow him to the Divide where he would reveal his connection with that place and his relation with you.

    Based on who you decided to help the most he would decide to launch missiles at NCR's homeland, the Legion's, or both, with the player either talking him out of it or launching the missiles instead.

    ED-E in LR would actually be the one that you encounter in the main campaign, being the only companion you can (and probably must) take with you to the Divide.

    Of course this would lead to several problems, not to mention post main campaign content, and of course if you have recruited Ulysses, ED-E, neither of them, and if they had not died earlier during a 'hardcore' game.

    But damn it would be awesome.

    And once you have finished LR you finally get to see the endgame slides, taking into account if you fired the missiles.
     
  13. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    Exactly. LR suffered most from having to follow the same (poorly thought out) formula of treating DLCs as separate entities unto themselves than it did from any poor writing. I wouldn't mind if you NEVER met Ulysses during your treks through the main story, but if done properly, having him "disappear" and end up as the main threat at the end would be fine, as well. Hell, it even reminds me of the hoops players had to jump through to reach Night Terror at the end of SC3, or how you received different endings in Heavy Rain depending on which characters survived up to the end of the game. You could either script a premature "ending slide" which is actually a "game over" (not unlike what you can get as one of the DM endings) if Ulysses dies, somewhat like how killing your mother in FO2 would forfeit the game as well. Or just make Ulysses a Essential NPC (though I personally don't like that approach, as it's far too easy to abuse, like letting ED-E do all the heavy lifting in LR) or simply change what endings are available if he dies. I wouldn't mind if, rather than be a recruitable companion like he was originally intended, that you could see a bit of Ulysses here and there, somewhat like how you'd encounter or catch videos of Horrigan throughout FO2 before finally facing him. That way you're not forced to make him an Essential NPC, you don't need to worry about changing the endings if he dies, and he's more integrated into the story until he finally decides to head to The Divide and invite the Courier for their final showdown.

    Really the structure of the game is what hurt it the most, and that's long been establish and it's well known. Being able to choose how you approach it was great, but also being given a hub system of branching DLCs separate from a central map just disconnects them from the story. I was honestly surprised to find that several of the cases I played in L.A. Noire were DLC, when I played the game, because they were so seamlessly integrated into the game. There was no interruption, and they weren't some new section of the game, they just blended in perfectly with the rest, with the minor exception that suddenly you find yourself earning more trophies/achievements than usual for a single case. I hated the way the DLCs of FO3 were separate from the main campaign, and I hated seeing that return in FONV. "Honest Hearts" and "Old World Blues" didn't really suggest much of an impact on the Mojave. Sure, if you didn't "stop" the Think Tank, it was implied that they'd use the information scavenged from your arrival to escape BigMT and spread their atrocities to places like the Mojave. Sure, defeating the White Legs would have some level of impact on Caesar's campaign. But really, utilizing genocidal weapons DIRECTLY aimed at the Mojave and/or its supply lines with immediate and deliberate intent is far more consequential to the future of the region than implied consequences. Those 2 DLCs deserved to be more thoroughly integrated into the primary story than just a few NPC references here and there. To boot, they were just SO GOOD to play. If you could pretend that they had been more cleanly integrated, they really enriched the FONV experience!

    I mean, can you just imagine what kinds of more detailed and intriguing endings we could have received, if it had to consider not only who took control of New Vegas, not only what allegiances various settlements had and how that affected them at the end of the conflict, not only who you saved and who you didn't, but whether the Mojave was LIVEABLE or isolated from the outside at the end of it all If you chose to let the NCR take over New Vegas, then either "helped" Ulysses blow up The Long 15 or couldn't circumvent its destruction, wouldn't the outcome of New Vegas be more interesting? Sure, they've annexed The Strip, but now they're on their own. I imagine that could breed more anarchy than the Independent ending! On the flip side, destroying BOTH supply lines would probably impact an Independent Vegas in more positive ways. If only Obsidian has been granted the time and freedom they needed to make the game they wanted... Oh, what could have been.
     
  14. Makta

    Makta The DICKtator

    Jul 29, 2010
    So you wherent turne off by the fact that the fatman was found on 4 "?" locations and being sold by vendors in vanilla NV? Not to mention you could in a lesser way stock up with mini nukes in this game aswell?
    By seeing that last line i guess you maybe didn't have to say anything about it and i just made this post in vain.. sigh :roll:



    F3 = 15-2x. F-NV = Grumpy people over the age of 23 or worse.. Like me :twisted:

    And i may be wrong due to my cursed bad memery but cars did have a nuclear engine and that is probably why they made them explode like that?
    And maye it's just me but there is nothing funnier than seeing a group or 2 getting raped by an exploding car or 10 :lol:
     
  15. Languorous_Maiar

    Languorous_Maiar A Smooth-Skin

    688
    Oct 25, 2011
    You even played this DLC?

    NCR:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB_LXgk-nkE - 0:04

    "This will launch Ulysses' missiles against targets in the heartland of the NCR, raining nuclear fire down on it cities and its people."

    As for Legion:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxLBSCZ1-xI - 0:23

    "This will launch Ulysses' missiles against targets in the lands east of Coloardo controlled by Legion, raining nuclear fire down on its cities and tribes... (...)."

    Please, play this DLC before posting something about it...
    Because of people like you false informations are spreading, and then are repeated by others.

    Btw. The Dutch Ghost have completely right and his concept should appear in-game.
    I can post your PM to me about it? You wrote something similar to me, and it's really great idea. ;p
     
  16. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    I have played 3 times already

    these what ending says
    "...missiles fell on the East and the Legion encampment at Dry Wells... where the Twisted Hairs had allied, then been betrayed by Vulpes and Caesar. Legion soldiers died, their silhouettes blasted into the ground and earth, the last word of the last of the Twisted Hairs."

    "It was an ending to all things - a way of erasing the road that had led to this point and the history that had walked with it. "

    "missiles fell on NCR and the Long 15 caravan route beyond the Mojave Outpost, the road the Courier had been walking when the tale began. Caravans and NCR outposts along the route were reduced to ash, an Old World gift from the Divide"

    "As catastrophic as the damage was for NCR, the act made the Courier stronger for having no history, and no retreat. It was an ending to things - a way of erasing the road that had led to this point and the history that had walked with it."

    the ICBM was not intended to shot Shadysand or Legion's capital but their supply road.
     
  17. Languorous_Maiar

    Languorous_Maiar A Smooth-Skin

    688
    Oct 25, 2011
    And you don't even know, that you're nuking entire states in LR, not only supply lines?

    Cool with skiping important informations.
     
  18. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    Because I haven't shot ICBM my self.
    I just stop ICBM always.
     
  19. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    this is what Ulysses said "No need to destroy the bear. Just cut its throat" the throat means long 15.

    I know what you mean though I didn't try to shoot ICBM to both faction I can know about ending.

    "The Divide erupted in fire, violent, red as the last message of the two Couriers arced into the sky... The missiles rained like spears down on the land, burning flags and communities alike... destroying all they struck. The history of the West was erased for the second time, thorough and complete... and America slept once more." This for without wild wasteland
    and
    "The Couriers finally, really did it. They blew up the lands West and East of the Mojave... damning them all to hell. The act was discovered 200 years later, as other couriers explored the Mojave wastes. There, they saw NCR relics, reminders of their once proud history"
    this for with wild wasteland. in this ending you blow not only NCR and Legion but also for Mojave. WTF???
    anyway it isn't what Ulysses intended to but it's you choice. doesn't it?
     
  20. aenemic

    aenemic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jun 4, 2008
    I loved Lonesome Road, mostly for the atmosphere. The went back and forth between vey intersting and pretty self-indulgent. Ulysses was interesting to talk to and it was fun how he slowly revealed your backstory. But at times it felt like he just went on and on, often repeating the same thing. Gameplay-wise it was very linear, but I don't mind this for a DLC since the original game is so open.

    I agree that the consequences of your choices didn't really show in the game and didn't feel very impactful, but at the same time I think the writing itself made it feel like a pretty big thing. I kind of imagine that news don't travel that fast in the wasteland and even if you nuked a huge area, there's not really anyone who knows YOU did it or even what exactly happened.

    There were a few tough parts of the DLC (on very hard), which I loved. Deathclaws, invisible Marked Men and Tunnelers primarily. But I wish there'd been more Marked Men and that they'd have presented a bigger threat. I'm playing OWB at the moment, and it's the hardest part of the game yet. I'd have loved it if every DLC was that challenging, and especially Lonesome Road as it would have gone very well together with the theme and atmosphere.

    Other than that, gotta love the Riot Gear and its improved variants. Oh, and satchel charges and flash bangs. I never leave my Novac room without them.