Many a True Nerd "Fallout 3 is Better than you Think"

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by CT Phipps, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. SquidWard

    SquidWard Pirate and Bankrobber oTO Orderite

    Jun 1, 2018
    Funnily enough while Hbomberguy made a good video for Fallout 3 and MATN argued in bad faith, when Matthewmatosis criticized Dark Souls II Hbomberguy pretty much made a response to that with many bad faith or disingenuous arguments.

    Turns out many people just get too salty when someone seriously deconstructs and criticizes a game they loved. It's fine to like a game despite its flaws. But it's better to do so while acknowledging those flaws instead of outright denying them.
     
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  2. Sn1p3r187

    Sn1p3r187 Carolinian Shaolin Monk

    Apr 7, 2014
    In fact, if the game were set 20 years after the war. A ton of shit in Fallout 3 would actually make a shit load more sense. Including the Lone Wanderer's birth basically being only around a year after the Great War and the scars of the war were far more visible. Itd make sense why James was trying to get into Vault 101 seeing it wouldve barely been a year after the war and theyd take everything they could get. And hell, even the lawless wild wasteland state of the Capitol Wasteland would make more sense
     
  3. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    Because these retards are some of the most insecure babies in existence. They think criticizing anything they love is an attack on them, they think they have to come to the defense of the company that makes their favorite because they somehow believe that the company cares about them. It's extremely pathetic.
     
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  4. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Antediluvian as Feck

    Nov 26, 2007
    It's almost as if that was their intention, but later changed it in mid-to-late development.
    Todd Howard has mentioned cutting out a lot of content before release.

    I think it was simply a complete lack of understanding the setting.
     
  5. Señor Wally

    Señor Wally Mildly Dipped

    512
    Feb 27, 2021
    I most discussions I have with people who lean more pro Bethesda, it usually derails into a defense of why they reused mutants.
    One such fella stated "they had to include mutants so that the game could have more energy weapons. The BoS are the only way to get Power Armor and advanced plasma weapons in Fallout 1. And in Fallout 1 the only way to get Laser weapons was from Mutant held bases".

    He thought classic fans would complain if they didn't force mutants into 3. So he goes "well, they would have been MORE critical of 3 if they weren't there. Damned if you do, damned if you don't".

    MOST defenses of Fallout 3 are in bad faith or not rooted in reality. And it makes me think that it may be because that's all you can do.

    MATN's video is like the peak of this mentality. It's as if he doesn't even care for Fallout 3 that much and is just doing this strawman shit to shill for Bethesda or something.
     
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  6. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    Well, he was invited by them to FO76 event in Whitespring couple months after this video was released...
     
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  7. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    That and for views because he knows how insecure Bethesda fans are. He knows they need validation, so he knows his videos will get a tons of views if he defends Bethesda games. It's so transparent that is borderline pathetic.
     
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  8. Señor Wally

    Señor Wally Mildly Dipped

    512
    Feb 27, 2021
    Huh. Called it, I guess.

    Yeah. lol Kind of backfired for them, though since it inspired an 8 hour breakdown response on why MATN's video sucked along with F3. OOF
     
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  9. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    I have been watching several responses to the MATN video because i sure as fuck ain't giving him any revenue by clicking on his video and what are even a lot of his arguments? Some of them are just flat out false like claiming that skill checks in New Vegas only come down the line and they aren't in the tutorial when the tutorial has a repair check for a SMG in the tutorial.

    Of course he's another that further perpetuates the wrong meme that you can't go north of Goodsprings because Cazadores are a "roadblock". Yes, they are difficult to kill at level 1, but there are some ways to either kill them or avoid them. It's up to the player to find out unlike in the Bethesa Fallouts where the level scaling removes this motivation to find ways to engage content by making sure any character, no matter how badly built they are, can access all content.


    I wouldn't minded if he made a video sucking the game's dick, but he had to constantly compare it to New Vegas and the first two games to a lesser extent. He couldn't just praise Fallout 3, he had to do it while undermining the Fallouts NOT made by Bethesda. Because it's so transparent what his agenda is.
     
  10. Señor Wally

    Señor Wally Mildly Dipped

    512
    Feb 27, 2021
    I saw of video of a guy who hadn't played NV in a long time and wanted to challenge himself by going north straight outta goodsprings. He was surprised that it wasn't hard at all if you are just careful. If you can't go that route, then it's just because you're not good at the game, clumsy or a beginner. All of which are ok, but acting like "IT'S IMPOSSIBLE" is another thing and it's also just plain silly.
    It's gotten to the point where the myth of the "super duper difficult" straight to Vegas route does not resemble the reality.

    Also, there's always adblock. Although, even then I had a hard time getting through the vid. I felt like pulling my hair out when he was talking about the "killing kids" thing and "immersion not being a real thing in Fallout" or whatever.
     
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  11. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    But he even undermines things that Fallout 3 actually did OK.

    Example:
    Megaton isn't a believable settlement even if we ignore the nuke- they don't have farms or another food source, clearly designers didn't care about it. They have the water purifier plant though.

    So MATN goes on a ramble how they actually have food source by showing 3 molerats behind the town guarding the hidden sniper rifle and saying that the town's water source is the dirty puddle in the middle of town, completely ignoring the purifier plant.
     
  12. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    Aahahahahahahahahahahaha. This genuinely made me burst out laughing, holy shit. It's made even more funny by the fact the town has a water purifier (like you said), so the image of the inhabitants drinking dirty ass water while the purifier is right there but it's not used is hilarious.

    The three molerats are just the cherry on top, because that's totally a viable, renewable food source capable of feeding an entire town of people.
     
  13. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    My ultimate feeling on this video is that it is obviously a bad faith exercise with a lot of hilariously dumb points that I think MATN probably doesn't fully believe himself.

    But, bad faith exercises can be an interesting tool at times, "Devil's Advocate." Even if I disagree with most of MATN's conclusions, I think it does raise some interesting point.

    Ultimately, and this is probably my most controversial take on this forum, Fallout 4 really does by contrast hgighlight a lot of virtues to Fallout 3. Fallout 3 is, I think, the worst of the mainline Fallout games (New Vegas included) but, unlike Fallout 4, it still constitutes a Fallout game in spirit.

    I actually think what he specifically said is that the crater is deep enough that they're close to groundwater which is then purified, not that the dirty puddle per se is the source of water. This in turn is the justification for the existence of the settlement - easier access to water. I think this is a fair and interesting inference, but of course is never indicated in the game. The only explanation is that the Chldren of Atom were already there and could be co-opted to help build a fortified settlement.

    The molerats are the ultimate example of bad faith. He doesn't suggest it is a possibility, he says "Oh, I always assumed..." It's retarded either way, but to try and pretend that the obvious conclusion of seeing three molerats outside of a large settlement is that these represent the food supply of that settlement, despite the fact that it's never discussed or alluded to by any of the inhabitants, is downright hilarious.
     
  14. xxdemonxspawnnxx

    xxdemonxspawnnxx First time out of the vault

    68
    Apr 13, 2021
    I think, sometimes fo4 gets hate it doesn't deserve. It was just it's own factions, own game and all. I could imagine BoS and Mutants in fo4 as a parallel universe and stop disagreeing with bethesda. It was really fun and I can't measure fun so, maybe it is as good as NV for fo4 fans.(honestly, my past hate for fo4 was just an illusion)

    But fo3, not so. The game reused fo1,2(even funny dialogues from boneyard is used in tenpenny tower) so much that it is too predectable. It also feels unacceptable since it is a major spoiler for fo1 plot and factions and a masterpiece(fo1 lol) doesn't deserve to be reused just like that. It is also impossible to see the good side of fo3 since it tries to be a joke of fo1 everytime that I can't resist turning it off.

    But on the good side, some side quests in fo3 which are great when bethesda doesn't try to bother BoS, Mutants, Enclave, robots
    (Great quests-slaver, head of the state,talon mercs, android,mesmetron). But still they try to show some stupidity like the "declaration of independence"(misc item) sounded like something important but ended up going to another museum(where it already was).

    My opinion, bethesda can rename their 'fallout' to something else.
     
  15. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    I don't really think we can give Bethesda much credit for generating new factions in Fallout 4, because they were uniformly terrible. The Minutemen are contentless blank slate who exist largely to remove the responsibility on Bethesda to populate the Wasteland with interesting people in places, replacing it with minecraft/tower defense minigames. The Railroad is a cringely generic "Resistance" group with no depth, they exist as a force of pure negation to oppose "the bad guys," meaning that they could only be interesting if the peopel they oppose are. But the Institute, while a decently solid foundation, is nonsensical and uninteresting. Nothing it does makes any sense, and since they're at the center of everything in the game, consequently nothing else makes sense.

    And this comes down to personal preference, but I really didn't find it very fun at all. Really felt like a chore to play.
     
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  16. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    952
    May 12, 2020
    Let’s not forget that he also said that the megaton nuke created the crater in the first place, allowing them access to this groundwater. Never mind the fact that the megaton crater is much bigger than any other crater in the game and it didn’t even explode. He even addressed this ridiculousness on a Reddit post in response to that creetosis guy, saying that “fallout isn’t supposed to be realistic” so apparently that justifies any stupid head canon he can come up with.
     
  17. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    I think it is pretty obvious that the crater was meant to have been dug by the bomb itself, or perhaps by the bomb and its crashing plane. Which is probably retarded, but I would say that's a level of retardation that I don't really mind.
     
  18. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    If anything after the release of 76, people have became too kind to this game, or at least kinder than they used to. In those peoples's mind something worse coming out somehow means now they should be nicer to the previous bad thing because it looks better by comparison to the new worse thing. This of course is pretty stupid because one of the reasons people got upset with Fallout 4 was because people predicted it when Fallout 3 came out due to being able to see the trajectory Bethesda was taking with the series.

    Like Hardboiled Android said, the new factions are terrible. I give shit to Bethesda games for constantly recycling factions and other Fallout iconography, but also give them shit for the new bad things they have introduced. You can say it's a lose-lose scenario, i say it's a "just make the new things good" scenario.

    And yeah, i also don't get what's fun about Fallout 4. Walking around shooting bullet sponge enemies in copy and pasted dungeons while doing occasional Minecraft isn't very appealing, at least to me. Hardly any good quests, shallow RPG elements, mediocre dungeon design and really bad writing aren't made up with actual great combat and exploration.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2021
  19. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    Except I would add that, in contrast to Fallout 3, the exploration in 4 is pretty bad. Only the gunplay is a decisive improvemnt, but even then it's pretty meh.
     
  20. Norzan

    Norzan So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 7, 2017
    I didn't liked the exploration in either game because it felt i was going through a theme park instead of an actual somewhat believe world. But yeah, i agree that the exploration sucks in Fallout 4.

    And it's pretty sad that the only thing in the game that isn't terrible wasn't entirely made by Bethesda (that is if they actually had anything to do with the combat and ID Software did all of the work).