Mass Effect 3 discussion

[Alphadrop]

I take it Maxis had an extra life as it's currently walking around.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I take it Maxis had an extra life as it's currently walking around.

yeah ... but after the shoot the face is not the same anymore

 

[brfritos]

Thing about comics and books is that they are suppose to add to a IPs universe, not become mandatory to people to understand what is going on.

I have the same gripe with the Halo books, we are suppose to buy the books and such in order to understand the new games?

Best part is that marketing loves this shit. Rule #1 of creating entertainment properties is to constantly leave people wanting more. This is why so many games have so many endings, have cliffhangers, and now have cross-media promotions that are becoming increasingly necessary just to follow what's going on - they want you to buy everything, always dangling a sense of closure just out of reach but never giving it to you. This is why at bare minimum most game franchises are conceptualized as trilogies now, with further opportunities in the same universe still ready to be explored. But in the meantime, hey, here's some additional novels, comic books, breakfast cereal, action figures, even a feature film to keep you salivating.

Well, a lot of people actually thinks that Start Trek (2009) is a great movie wich surpass the original series and Next Gen, so why they wouldn't support this kind of thing?
Perhaps William "7" Somerset wasn't entirelly wrong, maybe apathy is a solution, isn't?

And since we are talking about Star Trek, does anyone feels too that EDI's dialogs are simply a copy from Data in the original TV series?
A LOT of her questionings, doubts and realizations are the same.

I'm all for homage and tribute, but copycat isn't too much?

 

[AskWazzup]

So much fuss and passion about a medicore game (or game series, since i haven't played the last one). Also, i can't understand how these bioware fans think that a new ending will somehow save the game, the damage is done, what has been seen, cannot be unseen. Then again, this ordeal kind of reminds me of doublethink.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

brfritos, Mass Effect has ripped off various science fiction movie and television IPs as well as various books and games.

It may be hyped as the 'most important sci fi license of this generation', but it would not have gone far without the sci fi from previous generations.

And yeah, truth be told the series is quite mediocre, it had some fun elements but its hardly the masterpiece of art some of the more obsessed fans make it out to be.

I find quite a lot of the dialog juvenile and various ideas worked out very poorly.

Guess better copied then poorly invented huh?

 

[Madbringer]

I think you're being a bit too harsh, Dutch Ghost. Sure it borrowed heavily from other works, sure it's not the most original setting ever, sure the plot and dialogues have some problems.

It's still a mostly coherent and rich game, offering lots more contextual lore and depth than virtually any other contemporary AAA (a)rpg title.

I've had fun playing ME1 and ME2 (still holding out on ME3 till i get an importable character from my re-playthrough). That's more than i can say about almost any game released post 2007.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Oh I do see potential Madbringer, it does not need to invent the wheel so to speak but after the series began it started to change and retcon its own lore in order to move on, sometimes even contradicting itself.

I am one of the people who actually likes the Collectors but now that I have played ME3 I really feel that they or the story of Mass Effect 2 really did not add much to the general saga.

In fact their threat did not seem to matter to the Alliance at all who could not be bothered to seriously investigating the disappearing colonists other than sending in a handful of troops.

I really disliked how a lot of ME2 was suddenly cut off with only a reference here and there rather than continuing on with it.

Why did Liara suddenly have to loose the Shadow Broker's ship?

Why do we not see serious consequences of Shepard blowing up that Batarian system other than that angry Batarian terrorist?

I also really dislike how the solution to the Reapers was suddenly revealed to be a super weapon that is quickly introduced in ME3 rather than trying to build up this quest for a solution in ME2.

Sorry if I sound arrogant but I could imagine so much more than could have been done with this all rather than what we got in ME2 and ME3.

 

[Madbringer]

Those are all good points, i am not necessarily disagreeing with you. I know the series has lots of problems (apparently, ME3 contributes heavily to that).

All i'm saying is that they still offer a fun playthrough. The potential for greatness is in so many games, i have stopped paying attention over the years, just focusing on the tangible and realistic. I'd still rather give Fallout 2 a solid playthrough with Killap's excellent patch/mod, for example, but considering the barren wasteland that today's game market is for oldshoolers used to much different standards, ME is not that far off the target.

I hate how apologetic i sound, sorry for that. I just think ME deserves a little better than outright bashing, though, considering the context.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I can only agree ME2 was fun. But it felt in the end rather like a filler then really a progress in the story. Kinda like Bioschock 1 and 2 where a sequel really was not needed. Despite that it was fun to play.

 

[Madbringer]

ME2's story did feel like filler, i agree. The resolution was ultimately meaningless, even the climax and end boss battle was bland and boring. Still more satisfying than Syndicate's (the original) ending, though! Hehe.

Sidetracking aside, i just wish they'd hire a more competent writer to fill in the holes. I'm heading for a massive disappointment with ME3, from what i'm hearing.

 

[brfritos]

brfritos, Mass Effect has ripped off various science fiction movie and television IPs as well as various books and games.

It may be hyped as the 'most important sci fi license of this generation', but it would not have gone far without the sci fi from previous generations.

And yeah, truth be told the series is quite mediocre, it had some fun elements but its hardly the masterpiece of art some of the more obsessed fans make it out to be.

I find quite a lot of the dialog juvenile and various ideas worked out very poorly.

Guess better copied then poorly invented huh?

Oh, I'm very aware of that, ME borrowed A LOT of it's content from past sci-fi movies, books and art.
But in the first games you have the ideas taken but developed in her own way.
This time they even borrowed entire dialogs from the ST:NG series!

Concerning the decisions they never have too much weigh in the consequences, apart from some very good moments like Tuchanka or in Grunt's mission about the Rachni.
Other than that is always filler.
In ME2 for example, most of ME1 decisions are reduced to mails.

As for your rant remember we don't have too many sci-fi sceries in games today, most of the time games are geared towards fantasy with dragons, nordic people, fairies and such.
Even pos-apoc games are like that, you have Fallout and now we will have Wasteland 2.

But apart from that, you can count in the fingers of one hand the sci-fi/pos-apoc games in the market, that's why people praise ME too high.
Is a good series but nothing revolucionary or ground shacking.

 

[Ilosar]

Sidetracking aside, i just wish they'd hire a more competent writer to fill in the holes. I'm heading for a massive disappointment with ME3, from what i'm hearing.

The prologue is dissapointing. Mostly due to the bad writing. Rest of the game, from Mars to the final mission, is an absolute blast and was my favourite Mass Effect experience. Tuchanka in particular is a very good level easily on par with Virmire. So many possible permutations based on choices in ME1 and 2.

As for ME2 being filler, that's kinda true. Even the ME2 squaddies are hardly present, even if a couple end up being very plot-relevant (Mordin, Thane, Miranda, Legion especially); the rest only get one-mission cameos. Albeit Grunt's mission is a very fun one that takes into account if he was loyal in ME2

Then again, the ending can easily render the entire trilogy moot if you let them get to you. I happen to be able to headcanon it away relatively scot free, but some people basically can't play the series again knowing the shit that happens and how horribly the story concludes.

 

[aenemic]

brfritos, Mass Effect has ripped off various science fiction movie and television IPs as well as various books and games.

not to mention, it was more or less a spiritual successor to the KOTOR games at first.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

We really should have some more science fiction themed RPGs as its a setting with lots of possibilities, either soft sci-fi/space opera or hard sci fi.

And either create complete new universe or use some of the better or more obscure ones other than Star Trek or Star Wars.
I for example would love to see a Known Space RPG based on the books of Larry Niven with perhaps a visit to the Ring World.

The universe of "A Fire upon the Deep" is also an interesting setting.

One thing the Mass Effect games did do right is show that people do like space settings for more than just shooters and space sims.

not to mention, it was more or less a spiritual successor to the KOTOR games at first.

That could really be felt in the first game when it came to skill building.
But I can't say that I completely missed it after they went a different direction with ME2.

I can only agree ME2 was fun. But it felt in the end rather like a filler then really a progress in the story. Kinda like Bioschock 1 and 2 where a sequel really was not needed. Despite that it was fun to play.

Thing is, I still prefer ME2 over ME3, one thing I enjoyed was that it had lots more side missions and did not have the 'war assets collecting' part.

 

[Crni Vuk]

well I cant speak about the quality of ME3. Though it seems people are "ok" with the game (as long we don't talk about the end here).

When it comes to annoying content in ME2 ... well you had the scanning-planets-for-resources thing. Not really THAT bad ... but it was at some point not really entertaining either. And if you ask me if a feature is not really entertaining then it has no purpose. Other then to artificially stretch the game.

 

[Madbringer]

I don't care what they would do for ME3, it could not possibly me more aggravating than driving around in Mako, looking for mineral deposits.

 

[aenemic]

not to mention, it was more or less a spiritual successor to the KOTOR games at first.

That could really be felt in the first game when it came to skill building.
But I can't say that I completely missed it after they went a different direction with ME2.

well, the basic elements are there throughout all the games: get your ship, get your crew, talk to them in-between missions to learn more etc. and the setting itself is at least as much influenced by Star Wars (especially the Old Republic setting) as Star Trek or any other sci-fi. hell, even small things such as the Elcors way of speaking can be traced directly to the KoTOR games. remember HK-47? I was actually kind of annoyed about how much they had lifted straight from those games when I first played ME, but the game was so good I quickly overcame that.

I'm not sure what the official word was when ME was first announced, but it's pretty obvious to me they wanted to keep working with the KoTOR model but needed their own universe to put it in.

as for the setting, I really enjoyed it. I'm not that into this type of sci-fi usually1, but it's great for what it's supposed to be: a space opera. there are always some huge glaring issues in these types of settings, but I'm not the type who needs a scientific explanation for everything in a made-up fantasy. however, I do hope they won't expand on this universe too much. but it will be interesting to see what will come after ME3 as I highly doubt they'll leave the franchise forever now.

 

[Ilosar]

If you want to be entertained http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10750224/17

Stanley Woo is having an all-out brawl with some rabid anti-endings, and I can't quite decide if its glorious or pathetic.

That said, Woo lamenting the fact that he gets vitriol by posting on the forums (poor community manager) and then obviously baiting another poster who of course can't respond is a fine example of hypocrisy. John Epler is just some unrelated guy working on Dragon Age's cinematics and he does a much better job of explaining the situation with civility.

Yeah, yeah I know, no discussing other forum's moderation. Shutting up now.

I'm not sure what the official word was when ME was first announced, but it's pretty obvious to me they wanted to keep working with the KoTOR model but needed their own universe to put it in.

I wouldn't call Mass Effect Star Wars-like. It followed the basic KOTOR model because, well when you're in space the best place to have player headquarters is a spaceship, but the universe was very detailled, morally grey and (most of the time) didn't depend on space magic. It felt far more like Star Trek to me. Doesn't help that a Paragon Male Shepard is basically a Captain Kirk expy.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

I don't care what they would do for ME3, it could not possibly me more aggravating than driving around in Mako, looking for mineral deposits.

That was one of my favourite parts. Though I didn't look at it as driving around to look for deposits but exploring new worlds. I just wish more of the worlds were as detailed as Virmire.

I wouldn't call Mass Effect Star Wars-like. It followed the basic KOTOR model because, well when you're in space the best place to have player headquarters is a spaceship,

KotOR model is also used in NWN 2 and DA:O. It's got nothing to do with being in space but the reliance on the companions to drive the plot. So instead of only recruiting companions that you want, you get them in your party whether you like it or not. Instead of only recruiting enough companions to fill your party you can recruit virtually all of them and while you are fighting for your life to save 'x' your so called friends are sitting around twiddling their mandible claws (though the suicide mission does invert this for once). Plus they no longer can die unless the script calls for emotional angst.

 

[Ilosar]

KotOR model is also used in NWN 2 and DA:O. It's got nothing to do with being in space but the reliance on the companions to drive the plot. So instead of only recruiting companions that you want, you get them in your party whether you like it or not. Instead of only recruiting enough companions to fill your party you can recruit virtually all of them and while you are fighting for your life to save 'x' your so called friends are sitting around twiddling their mandible claws (though the suicide mission does invert this for once). Plus they no longer can die unless the script calls for emotional angst.

Only the first 6 party members of ME2 (Miranda, Jacob, Garrus, Mordin, Grunt, Jack) were mandatory. You can not recruit a single one of the second wave if you don't want to. Dragon Age forced only Alistair on your party as he was a Grey Warden and plot-essential. Every other party member could either be rejected or thrown away from the party at any time.

In ME3 You can choose to not have some party members on the ship (notably the Virmire Survivor, I think you can also refuse Tali). They also have a life of their own in ME3, talking with other crew members and going away on the Citadel on their own when you dock there, not to mention most of them have an occupation on the Normandy even when they don't talk to anybody, they no longer just sit there waiting for Shepard to deign speaking to them.

Yeah, the arbitrary headcount limit is for gameplay purpose more than anything. The final mission of ME3 also averts it, they are all on the ground.

Companions do drive the plot in Bioware games, certainly, which is just how I like it. I am only saying the model they follow is not that rigid.