Meet the devs - Meet Todd Howard

[TheVaultKeeper]

Sigh... and here the slugfest goes again....

I can tell you right now that none of you will like F3, because the only way you'll like it is if it turns out to be Fallout 2 with new story and better graphics - and that's not going to happen.

So - everyone pack up camp, you're not going to like F3 - stop investing your life in discussing it, you're living in the past or on a dream, get out into the sun, get a girlfriend, loose your virginity, get fit, get a life....

 

[Sorrow]

There you have it folks.

All I'm asking is that you don't keep on bashing bethesda like if it's some sort of sport, and that the nerdiest *best* gamer is he who can bash them hardest....

So - everyone pack up camp, you're not going to like F3 - stop investing your life in discussing it, you're living in the past or on a dream, get out into the sun, get a girlfriend, loose your virginity, get fit, get a life....

Stop trolling.

 

[Vault 69er]

Sigh... and here the slugfest goes again....

I can tell you right now that none of you will like F3, because the only way you'll like it is if it turns out to be Fallout 2 with new story and better graphics - and that's not going to happen.

This is a stupid strawman. Which wouldn't be so annoying were it not for the fact that Todd Howard et al most probably share this opinion too.

Speaking for myself.. no. I don't want Fallout 2 redux. I don't want Fallout 1 redux either. I want Fallout 3. A Fallout 3 that remains true to it's predecessors. Anything else isn't Fallout. And if you don't want to make Fallout.. don't freaking call it Fallout!
Look at Van Buren. It was "new". It had changes people didn't automatically like. Some didn't like the full 3D graphics. Others (like me) didn't like condensing all gun skills into "Firearms".
But it was still Fallout. It still looked to remain true to what came before. And that's why people gave it a chance.

 

[Sander]

Sigh... and here the slugfest goes again....

I can tell you right now that none of you will like F3, because the only way you'll like it is if it turns out to be Fallout 2 with new story and better graphics - and that's not going to happen.

Strike number final for trolling. One more troll and you're banned. All you've done in this thread is derail the argument and troll people by completely sidestepping any argument thrown your way. Hell, at one point you started complaining that it had turned into a discussion about whether or not Oblivion was a good game or not, while *you* were the one who initiated that specific argument. Not to mention that the argument was still about whether or not Oblivion was a *landmark* game, not whether it was a good game or not.

So - everyone pack up camp, you're not going to like F3 - stop investing your life in discussing it, you're living in the past or on a dream, get out into the sun, get a girlfriend, loose your virginity, get fit, get a life....

Troll. Get a life yourself, you're the one initiating and perpetuating a supposedly pointless discussion on this site.
Here's a clue: we're Fallout fans. This site's existence revolves around Fallout, hence we are concerned with whatever is in the future of Fallout. Suggesting that we should stop caring is moronic at best.

 

[Tom_Sawyer]

One great company that listens to the fans BIG TIME

Stardock

Galactic civilizations 1 and 2 and some other odd assorted games

Took the very bad bad taste of Moo3 out of my mouth

Can we please lock up up Bethesada's team with Frog's team and get the former started on a great design

I am not bashing Fallout 3 which is not even out yet

I am not trolling

I am stating that it disturbs me that I can see companies which listen to the fans, spend time in the forums not just spouting their plan but actually saying "Hey we want to do this, what do you all think?"

GalCiv 2 spent 9 months in beta testing where ANYONE had the chance to buy the game before it went gold, help test it, and get in on the ground work to make hard core changes as they moved along. Once it did go gold you got a final version

Imagine a Fallout 3 along those lines.....

Hey we all can dream

 

[Vault 69er]

Stardock are indeed good... but they could hurry up and give me my Terror Stars.

 

[HawK-EyE]

just read that interview from todd howard and his last quote from Christopher Reeve, i don't know what they are smoking @ bethsoft but it must be illegal...

 

[philowar]

Anyway it was just an example of one of the areas in which oblivion pushed bounderies. I do not believe that oblivion is perfect, or that it's the best game that it could have been, but I don't think anyone can deny that it's a remarkable achievement for what it is.

What are these goddamn "BOUNDERIES" you keep babbling about? Ooh, pretty graphics? Ooh, shallow gameplay? Ooh, 30000 lines of shitty, juvenile, nerdy, retarded voiceover? What kind of standards do you have? What kind of taste? Have you ever read a book other than a WOC fantasy novel or the latest Star Trek pastiche? Do you have any conception of what's good and what's bad, what's cool or artistic or worthwhile and what reeks of a geek's 3-day-old underwear? Man. So please stop with the retarded "pushing boundERies" already, and please stop telling me Bethesda knows how to make great games and Oblivion is the roxor because to me it's a painfully dull, shitty, childish, shallow, pointless piece of crap, and, as the old saying goes, a polished turd is still a turd. Thanks!

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

Again, everybody ignores Dark Legacy, when he always has something *at least* funny to say.

I laughed at some parts out loud, mate, and your brand of humor remains only an aquired taste for some. I may try a few quotes myself, in some of them you just cut the bullshit out flawlessly.

I also looked a lot at my own reactions to other franchises that have had long gaps and were reborn/updated again in another era. Mostly movies, and such, The Lord of the Rings, Superman, Batman, etc, etc. Now, I’m a recovering comic book junkie, so I’ll probably be throwing around a lot of superhero references

We like games with swords and shit.

Your opinions do matter, and we want them. We are influenced by what gets said about us on these forums, in the press, the letters we get and so forth.

Your opinions matter, as long as you keep them to yourself. We get a lot of hate mail, fuck you Rosh !

You may not agree, you may be too cynical to look at it objectively anymore, but I’m going to guess that you’re reading this forum because Fallout really does matter, and it does mean something far more to you then just “a game.” So for my final superhero reference, I leave you with this quote from Christopher Reeve; insert Fallout:

My favourite superhero is the one called superman and my native language is retard.

 

[TheWesDude]

some people dont get it.

seriously, they dont.

let me say it once, I DO NOT CARE ABOUT GRAPHICS ( as long as they look like they were made by a paid artist not some 1st grader ). i care about the interface and the story.

game companies invest far too much time in graphics. there is a REASON we play our older computer games still even TODAY and its because of the story, interface, and engine. when i boot up a copy of my gold box pools of radiance or pools of darkness its not because the graphics are good. when i boot up a copy of ultima 5 or 6 its not for graphics. when i boot up a copy of dark reign, its not for the graphics. when i boot up a copy of fallout its not for the graphics.

i would not care in the slightest if there was a brand new RPG that came out tomarrow with pools of darkness quality graphics if it nailed it with a deep and multi-pathed story, natural interface, and an engine that ran well.

oh and no bugs.

show me that game, and i will show you my wallet.

 

[Vault 69er]

Unfortunately, putting graphics and simple-minded gameplay first is the ever increasing trend.
After all, without super-duper graphics, Microsoft cannot whore out their latest console. nvidia can't sell their latest DX10 super-uber card.
Videogames have become tools of corporate greed.

 

[Tom_Sawyer]

I can recall when Myst came out

The joke was everyone had a copy, even your grandmother, even though she had no idea what a CD was lol

I concur, please keep the superhero references, keep the ooohhh looook shinnnyy graphics.

Give us a plotline where you can wonder events like

"What can change the nature of a man"
"Why does this guy keep talking to his hamster"
"Behind this door you discover 42 beholders"
"Ohhh I guess I should not have done that"
"I am the Dark Savant, give me that Pen!"
"You have strayed far from the path Avatar"

 

[Sorrow]

some people dont get it.

seriously, they dont.

let me say it once, I DO NOT CARE ABOUT GRAPHICS ( as long as they look like they were made by a paid artist not some 1st grader ). i care about the interface and the story.

I don't care (much) about graphics too. Well, I like when a game has good graphics - I'm not talking about super-duper graphics technology that would force me to buy a new computer - I'm talking about a good game artwork.

The trend to make 3d "RPGs" with photorealistic 3d graphics is because they are aimed at people who, don't want to play a game with good story, meaningful interaction and interesting concept but to *live* in an imaginary world instead of living their own lives.
They need photorealistic 3d graphics for the illusion that *they* are living in the world of given computer game.

I can't call it a healthy trend.

i would not care in the slightest if there was a brand new RPG that came out tomarrow with pools of darkness quality graphics if it nailed it with a deep and multi-pathed story, natural interface, and an engine that ran well.

oh and no bugs.

show me that game, and i will show you my wallet.

I second that. Also, I would strongly prefer if new RPGs wouldn't force me to buy a new comp just because they want to introduce new graphical effects and soil erosion.

Fallout Tactics level graphics with added higher resolutions for LCD users would be more than enough for F3 without the obscene system requirements and forcing 3d graphics everywhere.

Videogames have become tools of corporate greed.

Yes. And using more and more advanced technology and even bigger budgets makes selling to masses even more important.

 

[Karak]

I don't care (much) about graphics too. Well, I like when a game has good graphics - I'm not talking about super-duper graphics technology that would force me to buy a new computer - I'm talking about a good game artwork.

The trend to make 3d "RPGs" with photorealistic 3d graphics is because they are aimed at people who, don't want to play a game with good story, meaningful interaction and interesting concept but to *live* in an imaginary world instead of living their own lives.
They need photorealistic 3d graphics for the illusion that *they* are living in the world of given computer game.

I can't call it a healthy trend.

According to one of the devs we WILL have to get used to more realistic graphics:

1. I'm just a lowly artist, but for my own part, I want the same look and feel of the creatures... just more realistic.

I wonder how that will work out...I was never hoping they would be subtle enough to try to capture the comic-bookish look of the originals, but still...

For me, the overall art was a big part of what made Fallout...the latest concept art is a good indication of what is missing...joining Todd in search of the soul of Fallout, I would say the art direction of the originals is missing...they can throw in as many 50's references they want, the realistic look still kills off that distinctive feel of Fallout...

 

[Continuum]

Fallout Tactics level graphics with added higher resolutions for LCD users would be more than enough for F3 without the obscene system requirements and forcing 3d graphics everywhere.

Agree. Since my CRT monitor is broken I'm using LCD crap. It's a damn horror to play the games with lower resolution than 1280x1024.

I'm running on Athlon 2800+, GF FX 5900XT and 512MB of RAM and I don't have any plans to upgrade it or buy a new PC. So from this particular reason most of the newest games are out of my range and FO3 also will be

 

[Jimmious]

Trying to convince Fallout1&2 fans that Oblivion is -not only a good- but a remarkable RPG is funny.
We(I am in that category I believe) are used to some RPG fundamentals that Oblivion not only lacks but completely disgraces only by being called RPG.

I would sum all these fundamentals in one simple phrase : "Role Playing"
Did anyone ever feel like he was playing the selected characted in the selected world in Oblivion?
I've tried to start playing Ob. 2-3 times and always got bored after 1 hour max. There was simply nothing to keep me there. I felt i was just playing a (good looking) FPS with bows,swords and magic.

 

[aries369]

There is a real difference, imo, between realistic graphics and glossy graphics. Oblivion's visuals were too much glossy (and white!) for my part, and don't even get me started on the soil erosion . A game like Dreamfall or a game like Gothic 3 did have realistic graphics and toned down bloom or HDR or whatever the tech department uses to get that glossy feeling (that ends up hurting my poor middleaged eyes (ouch) ).

I don't get it either why game companies, devs. and publishers apparently feel the need to develop games that have more realistic graphics aka 'movie standards visuals'. I like my games to have and to keep part of the cartoony look as this means that I can tell 1) this isn't a movie and 2) this isn't really realistic aka IRL; it is just a game ....

Or maybe it is because gaming companies hope that movies and games someday soon may melt together.... horrid the thought :shudders:

 

[Vault 69er]

Personally I regard Van Buren's graphics as a happy medium.
Not only did it maintain the feel of the original Fallouts, but from what was shaping up it didn't look like it was going to be 3D for 3D's sake - properly implemented, full 3D rotation would allow for better exploration and combat.

However, modern games with their uber-schmuber graphics have them for no other reason than to go "look at me! I'm pretty!"

 

[jfreund]

I'm with Vault 69er; 3D would be good for the purposes of camera movement. How many times playing FO 1/2 did you wish you could zoom in/out, raise, lower the camera, or look behind a building? Probably not during the first few years they were out, since we hadn't really seen that capability yet. But for me, when I replay 1/2 now, I would really appreciate that. I think it could only draw the player closer to the game world to give them the ability to see it from more perspectives.

If Todd and co. truly "left no stone unturned" trying to find the "soul" of FO, then they would have looked at the VB demo and seen how 3D could be successfully implemented into Fallout. Not that I believe him, based on how they have/have not communicated with the original developers.

One of the most annoying things about Oblivion's graphics is the damn HDR lighting. I have a system that can run it at high res with HDR on and I can't stand the "glossy" look it gives EVERYTHING. HDR in the Source engine isn't so bad, but I can't see any advantage in GAMEPLAY to using HDR lighting.

Despite Todd's intentionally ambiguous babbling, the basic problem here is that Bethesda has become completely about "OMFG look at teh HDR grass blowing teh the wind it ROXXORS" and Fallout is about gameplay and setting. I never played any PnP games growing up (that would have required a group of friends), but the best RPGs are the ones that stay faithful to the PnP mechanics. An RPG is not supposed to be a FPS action game that relies on twitch reflex. It is supposed to depend on the stats and abilities of the player character as developed in the game (and traveling around the game world by constantly jumping is not an acceptable way to develop player character abilities).

If Todd really wanted to get to the "soul" of Fallout, he would play Wasteland. He would gather a group of people who could stand to be in the same room for an extended time and play some PnP games. He wouldn't just look at Fallout 1/2, he would look at the source material for Fallout. Instead we get ramblings on Superman and Batman. I've always liked Marvel better.

@ Tom_Sawyer: I get to see Rush in August. Is the tour coming near you?

 

[Mani]

While FO3 should of course have the option to rotate the camera, level design should be such that it's generally not necessary to have to constantly rotate the camera, as that would be both annoying as well as disorientating.

I'd be happy if FO3 had graphics at the level of say NWN2 or Titan Quest, good examples of properly implemented isometric/top down 3D graphics. Though Bethesda will push the envelope a lot more=) Of course FO3 should be as pretty as possible, I just hope they don't go too far because the the better the graphics, the more time it takes for artists to model objects and you end up fighting 27 differently named yet graphically identical rats.
That's probably the reason why Beth went with the face generator in Oblivion, causing all NPCs to look different yet oddly the same.
It would be much better to turn down the graphics a notch or two and have 100s of truly unique NPCs, creatures and other objects imo.