Mods/GECK will fix it. Nope.

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by DirtyOldShoe, Dec 31, 2015.

  1. DirtyOldShoe

    DirtyOldShoe Some kind of lucky

    Dec 15, 2015
    Something I have been thinking about for a while now and I apologize for the size of this article, I have a tendency to not keep things short.

    First I would like to note that I have modded for all the games listed below to varying degrees so I do have at least a minimal understanding to the modding tools available for each and the struggles with modding as well.

    The list below catalogs, in chronological order the most recent and highly modifiable titles from BGS and an exception for Obsidian. In my hypothesis I have also considered the aging of the title in comparison to how any mods are available and also factored in that not all mods listed in a category can accurately depict that they do represent that category and that other mods listed under other categories may, but the cross over of said mods seem to balance out with just the prime categories listed here. In addition to these calculations there are subset categories I have imposed but not listed of grandiose and somewhat lackluster. Grandiose adding hours of game play and lackluster not having voice, quest markers, quests or just poorly conceptualized and implemented.

    In the list, Morrowind is the least modded, FNV has more mods than F3, even though F3 had a massive head start. I believe some of the contributing factors to how well modded a game is are age, ease of modding and core game.

    Examples, Skyrim is much easier to mod then all titles listed imo due to templates, search functions, community tools, game engine stability, creation engine stability and advancements in the creation engine. Incorporation of dev tools such as navmesh and exporting voice and lip files makes Skyrim very user friendly, where other games have more struggles. I found Morrowind's construction tools very clunky and unintuitive.

    In regards to popularity, Skyrim is one of the later releases and has more mods than any 2 titles combined.

    The reason for this article is due to a common thought process of players of F4 that mods or the GECK will "fix" the game to make it playable. This also has a number of factors that rely on, drive, tenacity and desire. The problem with this scenario is that for one to want to "fix" the vomit that is the story line and lack of quests for F4, they would need to have drive, tenacity and a desire to work on quests.

    A small analogy if you will. Lets say BGS sold us a plate of sugary sweets, not everyone likes sugary sweets, with modding tools we can change those sweets to be sour or even poisonous, we can change them to not be tasty snack but goodhearted deathclaws and so forth. With F4, we were sold a crap plate of crap, Everything sold is not worth much of changing and the entirety needs to be changed, nothing of the story is salvageable.

    Morrowind Quests: 120 3.27%
    Morrowind Lands: 76 2.07%
    Total files: 3669

    Oblivion Quests: 652 2.33%
    Oblivion Lands: 255 0.91%
    Total files: 27958

    F3 Quests: 383 2.71%
    F3 Lands: 167 1.18%
    Total files: 14123

    FNV Quests: 429 2.54%
    FNV Lands: 192 1.14%
    Total files: 16829

    Skyrim Quests: 669 1.48%
    Skyrim Lands: 176 0.38%
    Total files: 45151

    F4 Quests: 2 0.03%
    F4 Lands: 0 0.00%
    Total files: 5868

    As you can see by the numbers, Skyrim has an underwhelming amount of quest mods or quest and world related content. Many would be mod authors have the desire to build quests and worlds, but do not have the tenacity to see it through, The vast majority of the quest and land mods for Skyrim are WIP's from a few years back that will never see conclusion. Skyrim, the easiest title to mod has the lowest percentage of content mods. Most of the mods for Skyrim are aesthetic. There are some grandiose titles for all the games that add quest content, but you can usually count them on one to two hands. Players that may wish to mod quests that have not done so before will most likely be overwhelmed with having to learn to script. Most people that have this skill already are more than likely interested in other titles, like Skyrim or previous titles of Fallout.

    Skyrim was not turned into a hack and slash, F4 is a first person shooter. There will never be a mod that makes F4 not a first person shooter. Best hope is to have a buffet of content mods, but they will be scarce. Out of the almost 6000 mods for F4 currently, There are 2 mods categorized as quest related.

    "That's not fair, there's no GECK yet, how will people make quests mods?"

    The fact that you are holding your breath for a 'what if' to make the game good speaks loudly. No other game I have played have I ever thought, "Come on mods, make this game playable." If it ain't good now, attaching a great quest mod to a pile of crap should not mean that much to you. I promise, 1 year from now, you will have forgotten about this garbage game.

    If you want quests and content and good story, play NV and download some mods, if you want to pewpew on repeat, play CoD, it's a lot cheaper.
    • [Like] [Like] x 4
  2. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    Once the GECK comes out the quests will be easy to make, just make "Hey wasteland Jesus! There's a settlement nearby we want can you to go to X and kill all of these Y?" quests. :lol:
    Modders only care about making HD boobs with nipples and asses. Other cosmetic changes as well.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  3. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Nothing short of a total conversion mod will fix FO4, even for modders to be able to do interesting mods. As it stands the game doesn't seem to support any kind of quest structure that isn't just killing things, the dialogu system limits questing and the map is too bloated with enemy infested ruins for anyone to be able to fit any new settlements in. At least Skyrim had enough empty space and a list based dualogue system for modders to be able to add stuff in.
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  4. KillerBee256

    KillerBee256 Still Mildly Glowing

    Oct 31, 2008
    Modders also love guns, thought I am willing to admit in fallout 3 and new Vegas I use nude body replaces for both genders for realism sake.
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016
  5. Monco

    Monco The Duck of Death

    Nov 4, 2015
    Honestly, I think it is telling that the biggest mods for FO4 so far are nude body replacers.
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  6. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    It's telling because the available mod tools don't allow for much.
  7. RangerBoo

    RangerBoo Vault Fossil

    Jun 15, 2015
    Once the GECK comes out I have a feeling that the mods for Fallout 4 will follow a similar suit to Fallout 3 in that there won't be much in the way of quest mods. The quest mods that do come out will mostly be note quests as the dialogue system screws over many quest modders. It will mostly be weapon mods, as the weapons in Fallout 4 look freakin awful, gameplay mods and bug fixes. I wasn't going to buy Fallout 4 unless a really, really, REALLY good mod for it comes out like a Project Brazil or Interesting NPC's but I honestly don't see that happening. Maybe modders will surprise me but I am extremely cynical and doubtful of that.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  8. DirtyOldShoe

    DirtyOldShoe Some kind of lucky

    Dec 15, 2015
    Don't get me wrong! I use adult mods for FNV, they are supposed to be adult themed with the subject of the game, it is balanced to me. Just that the are aesthetic. They won't make the game playable. I am willing to admit that if I could not play with mods I would still be very happy with NV. It is a good core game. It doesn't need anything to make it playable, mods just stretch it's lifespan. F4 imo is not worth trying to salvage with mods.
  9. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    How do they say, bugs can be fixed. Shitty story stays for ever ...
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  10. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I am lucky to be part of a great team of FNV modders and we find ourselves talking about how the prospect of "Fixing" FO4 is not good at all.

    Here are a few reasons why it would take a long time and a lot of work and knowledge to be able to "Fix" (note that some of these things might not be necessary to "fix" it and be just personal preferences):

    • We would have to find a way of putting skills back
    • We would have to redo the entire perk system
    • We would have to find a way to make and add Traits again
    • We would have to make an alternate start and probably get rid of the main quest of FO4
    • We would have to totally revamp the Power Armor system (probably get rid of Power Cores, make PA much more rare, maybe make it so when a PA part breaks it will not be possible to fix it and it was lost as to compensate for removing the Power Cores)
    • We would have to find a way of removing the "Magical" weapon properties
    • We would have to find a way of dealing with voiced Main Characters (probably have to disable the voice so we could add/remove/edit dialogue)
    • We would have to "fix" the horrible dialogue options system
    • We would have to "fix" the radiant quests and add more diversified ones
    • We would have to "fix" firing companions to any camp/house we want them to go
    • We would have to "fix" companions behaviour

    Those are all the things I could get from the top of my head, I know I am forgetting a lot of other issues, but I hope it already illustrates how massive a group of great modders would have to work to be able to "fix" FO4, and that is not counting with stuff that might be plain impossible to make :twitch:.
    • [Like] [Like] x 4
  11. Ninja

    Ninja Who?

    Dec 15, 2015
    @Risewild, even with the guys at TTW and possibly more experienced modders, I have a hard time seeing many of these issues being fixed anytime soon. Quite a task.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2016
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  12. KillerBee256

    KillerBee256 Still Mildly Glowing

    Oct 31, 2008
    I think these are doable, but we'll have to see the new GECK to know for sure.
  13. Ninja

    Ninja Who?

    Dec 15, 2015
    There's a post somewhere on this forum explaining the lengths you would have to go to get rid of the main quest. It's deeply ingrained into almost everything your character does, how he/she talks to people, even more than it has in previous games. An alternate start would be simple enough with a GECK, but what comes after that is the challenge.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  14. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    You'd have to change massive things in the game just to make it plausible. Fallout New Vegas was relatively simpler, just get rid of the beginning courier thing and have the character get the platinum chip during the game somehow... maybe I have to explain this better.
  15. ZigzagPX4

    ZigzagPX4 The Swiftness of the Ranger

    Nov 22, 2015
    Wants to simplify dialogue and gameplay for the mainstream crowd, interface is still crap.

    Wants to make fast-paced action gameplay in response to bad shooting mechanics in Fallout 3, but gives you very few base weapons.

    Wants to throw away RPG mechanics in favour of a more streamlined progression system, but the new system of perks-only system just doesn't work.

    Wants to allow settlement building, but in exchange all the quests become repetitive loot-shoot quests.

    And now?

    Wants modders to do all their work for them, RELEASES THE MOD TOOLS LONG TOO LATE, and now most casual gamers (who are their target audience) will have moved on with their lives.

    Can they do anything right? They're even doing the wrong things wrong. I don't get it. How do they do this?
    • [Like] [Like] x 7
  16. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Because they're lazy dumb fucks? I used to respect Bethesda for selling crap, but now? They're crap at selling crap.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  17. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Dedman oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    No, they are catering to lazy dumb fucks.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  18. ZigzagPX4

    ZigzagPX4 The Swiftness of the Ranger

    Nov 22, 2015
    Bethesda is hard at work to market the game to the lowest common denominator, while their target audience is hard at work modding it to make it somewhat tolerable to anyone above the lowest common denominator.

    Neither are lazy or dumb, though whether Bethesda are fucks or not is a matter of opinion.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  19. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    Nope, lazy dumbfucks catering to lazy dumbfucks.
  20. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    They are lazy. Look at Fallout 4, they make shit tons of extra content and don't finish it? The fuck?