Mr. House - Saviour or Tyrant?

[DForge]

If we focus on House's actions instead of his sweet promises about bringing a brighter future the things are pretty clear. The fact is House is a dictator who has his own personal army of robots and his whole parasitic economy serves mostly him and his personal agendas. On the other hand the NCR are trying to be democratic, to rebuild a working economy and willing to deal with raiders and providing citizenship to outsiders.

Trying to be democratic? Fun, but what's the use of electing another Enclave? Or do you think that people like Tandi will be elected forever? The Enclave didn't popped out of thin air. It must've been elected, unless the pre-war US wasn't a democracy. And it was. What's stopping another government from going crazy now, after 100 years, after 200 years? After the world is "rebuilt" to a point NCR, that has been happily annexing all they can, by "diplomatics" or force meets another powerful country, remnants of China for example? Will they co-exist? I think of Fallout humanity as different then ours: They can't co-exist, and that has been proven. Fallout humanity and GOVERNMENTS did NOT step down, they actually pressed the "end of the world" button - deliberately, knowing what it brings. To create another "democracy" with absolute power in government is simply asking history to repeat without any "fail check". Mr House is the fail check - Given the genious he is, you may at least believe he will save the Vegas again. And if he does what he says he will, colonizing other planets will at least end the threat of humanity killing itself because some "elected" government thought it could play God by pressing the "fuck me up" button.

NCR isn't bad. Democracy is. Or rather, what can be implemented instead of democracy in a big country - realistically. I call it Oligarchy because Enclave was highly Oligarchic - yet "elected". And that's because democratic system ALLOWS that in the first place.

Would Mr. House help the humanity 100 years in the future? Only if that's in Mr. House's interest. Would Mr. House nuke the NCR if given the chance? Sure, if it's in Mr. House's interest. Hell, he'd kill anyone and anything without a moment's hesitation. It's obvious that he sees people as nothing more than pawns on a chess board.

Well, the NCR doesn't HAVE to annex everything they see and kill all who oppose them. Yet they do.

House has to. Otherwise the power-hungry NCR will come down, guns blazing, to take his little Vegas away from him. It's not that he's greedy, wants NCR lands or something. He doesn't give a damn about those. He openly expresses he wishes to co-exist with NCR in peace, but their "democratic" leaders have to be stopped in their ambition first, by the only language they understand: force exhibit.

And if you follow House's questline, it works extremely well.

Except BoS, House doesn't exactly promote eradicating people. And I already explain why it's best interest for every country - also NCR - to eradicate BoS. Their philosophy is dangerous to humanity. They lack power, but it's like allying with Nazis just because they are too weak to pose a threat anymore. No way.

You defend House like he's done something great. The only great thing he's done is surviving. And someone who survived that long would push anyone under the wheels of progress in order to keep surviving.

House has no interest in telling the courier of his plans and he doesn't do so too. it's optional to ask about many things, his grand plans included. It's not like he comes to you and says "I'm a saviour of humanity, help me". Why would he lie in this? The courier may as well be corrupt man with negative karma,a genocidal maniac, and he doesn't care too. He doesn't say those things to appease the courier, of that I'm quite sure.

Point is, the right person does the right thing when it counts. And Mr. House is not the right person.

As cold, lacking empathy as he is, he has a great point: Vegas isn't a community of fiends. It has every right to refuse annexion. If Kimball can't live with that, House MUST defend - and we already know Vegas is just too sweet candy for NCR to skip.

NCR isn't a choice. It's natural that one tribe would eventually dominate and form a country. House also isn't a threat to them. By helping House, you're not screwing NCR up. It will continue to grow and - well - annex everything they see, that's what they do. They will just NOT put their grabby hands on Vegas, Casinos and Dam. And why should they? House was there before the bombs fell. House was there to protect the city he loved from nuclear fire and rebuilt it. And now some short-sighted president of a country thrice younger than House comes and says "give me the Strip - or else" ? You think that's fair?

No way. NCR is just being greedy. Boone and Cass, pro-NCR people, have no illusion about that.



I also forgot: it's the "democracy" that created the Vaults and planned them to be a massive "social experiment". It's not that they "just" ended the world - they were well aware of how this will end AND actually sunk low enough to create an "experiment" on the remains of humanity back when the world was still "working". Democracy SUCKS in Fallout world. There is nothing to prevent the elected government to do what it wants. And once it starts wanting things like Enclave.. oh well.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

The tech that costed a fortune in dollars and can't probably be reproduced after the war, but might give new insights into medicine to some scientists out there. And might not cost more or be less producable than a colony space-ship.
Exactly that technology

The tech that needs people to be put in an asettic coffin, with machinery that cure him and act as his own body? Maybe I'm just projecting my vision on the situation, but I don't think House's formula for immortality has practical uses for the commoners since what's keeping him alive aren't miracolous medicines or anything.
That's the kind of stuff that can keep alive only people with an awful lot of money or power. In a way I think it's better if he keeps it for himself.

 

[Crni Vuk]

house is nothing more then a huge brain-bot. Thats all.

And the Enclave was no democratic organisation it was a "shadow gouvernement" And it acted like one. Very fasticistc and autocratic.

The pre-war US was not an democracy anymore as they started to use the US military against their own population, anexing their neighbours (together with war crimes which have been shown to the public). Maybe there might have not been the same declarations like in a dictatorship but you dont need the sound of marching boots and waving swastika flags around to have fascism.

I find it funny how someone in the Fallout world would defend house particularly when you consider how hes acting aroud you (you as the player are not more then just his errand boy ... and hes treating you just like one). And I have to agree when people say the best example are the allies house has since the NCR at least doesnt has those kind of trouble in their nation.

 

[Bad_Karma]

Except BoS, House doesn't exactly promote eradicating people. And I already explain why it's best interest for every country - also NCR - to eradicate BoS. Their philosophy is dangerous to humanity. They lack power, but it's like allying with Nazis just because they are too weak to pose a threat anymore. No way.

Well not exactly. It's more like allying with Germany after WW2 to have someone helping you with keeping Russia at bay. You know, in Pre-War germany you still had a lot of Nazi sympathisers in power. And i wouldn't judge it too much, but i would dare to say it didn't turn out to bad.

The tech that needs people to be put in an asettic coffin, with machinery that cure him and act as his own body? Maybe I'm just projecting my vision on the situation, but I don't think House's formula for immortality has practical uses for the commoners since what's keeping him alive aren't miracolous medicines or anything.
That's the kind of stuff that can keep alive only people with an awful lot of money or power. In a way I think it's better if he keeps it for himself.

Well the machine seems to keep organs runing while they should have failed before, or even replaces a lot of them.
So i really thing you could learn at least some things about how to treat illnesses of heart, lungs, kidneys, livers and such. I mean, you might get an instant cure or even something that's directly apply or doable, but in this wasteland where a lot of knowledge seems to be gone, this might at least help to recover medical knowledge that people had before the war.

But i'm not saying House is evil because he doesn't openly give away all knowledge about his status. I just say he doesn't seem to be willing to share any knowledge.

 

[Brother None]

I think the "man in space" line is meant to show exactly where Mr House's shortcomings lie. New Vegas still takes place in a world where caravans can't move around safely, independent towns have to fend for themselves and raiders dominate the wasteland. Yet he is sitting in his ivory tower planning to send a man into space. For what? What's the bloody point of sending someone into space?

In fallout universe, liberal democracies end up with nuclear holocausts, and elected government experimenting on people with FEV.

The Enclave were an inheritor of the elected government, to pretend they were still valid 140 years on is ludicrous. They were an oligarchy, at best, and have no relation left to the concept of elected government other than using the associated titles.

Meanwhile, the dictatorships we know of include Communist China and the Master's Army. Neither of those ended prettily.

I think that taking away the lesson "liberal democracy is flawed" from Fallout or even House is not taking in the whole picture. Humanity is flawed, no matter the form of governance.

So what's his big picture?

Make New Vegas flourish so he can finance his other researches. At least that's what I understood.

And this is pretty much where my sympathy for House ends. Because his plans just make no sense.

The Strip is a gated community. That's fine, we've had exclusivist gated communities before and given certain circumstances they can work. The Brotherhood was a gated community of sorts. Vault City was. The point, however, is that those communities have something to offer. The Strip doesn't offer the wasteland anything.

It is ridiculous to think the Strip can function in the New Vegas setting, and it is never adequately explained. Even caravan and mercantile families have to stay on the outskirts rather than the gated community offering a safe haven, which would be perfectly logical. So who gets inside the community? The very rich. Do you really think there's a lot of very rich people in the wasteland? It sure doesn't look like it to me.

NCR "tourism" feeds the Strip, but how? There's some drunk soldiers lolly-gagging about but when you talk to soldiers in the field you get the impression they'd sooner spend their caps on more bullets than on hookers and gambling. This is not a fully fledged economy capable of supporting an entire town that has no productive economic activity whatsoever. It is, in many ways, worse than New Reno.

Then the great plan for the future? It makes no sense. House wants New Vegas as an economic powerhouse but that's a basic economic self-contradiction: New Vegas doesn't produce anything. If you don't produce anything, you can not be the motor of an economy. This is a very basic economic lesson that apparently everyone at Obsidian missed, it just doesn't work that way. If at least it provided a financial or trading service like the Hub it could work. Hell, the Hub is exactly what House envisioned, but it's gone now, and New Vegas shares no functions with it.

Even if New Vegas can stimulate economic growth it can do so only because of a stable economic situation outside its borders created by the NCR. That means it is a leech on the hard work the NCR invested in the wasteland, and the NCR would likely be better of without it.

I loved House's writing and character, but boy is he dumb.

 

[DForge]

I think the "man in space" line is meant to show exactly where Mr House's shortcomings lie. New Vegas still takes place in a world where caravans can't move around safely, independent towns have to fend for themselves and raiders dominate the wasteland. Yet he is sitting in his ivory tower planning to send a man into space. For what? What's the bloody point of sending someone into space?

I guess it's because the more planets we have, the lesser chance of humanity getting extinct because a nuclear war emerged.

The Enclave were an inheritor of the elected government, to pretend they were still valid 140 years on is ludicrous. They were an oligarchy, at best, and have no relation left to the concept of elected government other than using the associated titles.

But it's the ELECTED GOVERNMENT of pre-war time that built Vaults (with that "social" experiment series, which was pretty disgusting, reminded me of Nazi pseudo medical science) and retaliated against China with milions of nuclear warheads. You can't deny that.

I think that taking away the lesson "liberal democracy is flawed" from Fallout or even House is not taking in the whole picture. Humanity is flawed, no matter the form of governance.

Exactly. That's why it needs someone like House. Flawless in his lack of ambition (if what he says is true), not flawed by revenge-schemes. Humanity needs more like a robot that would govern them well, something like Deus Ex' Helios, not another power hungry president that annexes everything he wants. House is closest to such option. Yes Man is an option too, but you never know what an independent machine will do and he becomes more assertive... (*cough* Skynet *cough*).

The Strip is a gated community. That's fine, we've had exclusivist gated communities before and given certain circumstances they can work. The Brotherhood was a gated community of sorts. Vault City was. The point, however, is that those communities have something to offer. The Strip doesn't offer the wasteland anything.

Joy?

It is ridiculous to think the Strip can function in the New Vegas setting, and it is never adequately explained. Even caravan and mercantile families have to stay on the outskirts rather than the gated community offering a safe haven, which would be perfectly logical. So who gets inside the community? The very rich. Do you really think there's a lot of very rich people in the wasteland? It sure doesn't look like it to me.

Well, House claims Strip is extremely profitable. And keep in mind that there is a lot of soldiers inside. Do you think every one of them has 2000 caps for credit check? I don't think so. The whole credit check seems like non-canon gameplay thing.

NCR "tourism" feeds the Strip, but how? There's some drunk soldiers lolly-gagging about but when you talk to soldiers in the field you get the impression they'd sooner spend their caps on more bullets than on hookers and gambling. This is not a fully fledged economy capable of supporting an entire town that has no productive economic activity whatsoever. It is, in many ways, worse than New Reno.

I'd rather have them gambling than "liberating" another town for the "glory" of NCR. With the money used on bullets.
Vegas is a money-maker. That's all. House needs money and it's just his tool.

Then the great plan for the future? It makes no sense. House wants New Vegas as an economic powerhouse but that's a basic economic self-contradiction: New Vegas doesn't produce anything. If you don't produce anything, you can not be the motor of an economy. This is a very basic economic lesson that apparently everyone at Obsidian missed, it just doesn't work that way. If at least it provided a financial or trading service like the Hub it could work. Hell, the Hub is exactly what House envisioned, but it's gone now, and New Vegas shares no functions with it.

Again, there are cities that produce NOTHING and yet are very rich because of tourists. I don't understand why do you imply you HAVE to be industrial or agricultural and sell your products to make a rich community. Selling services also works. And gambling is a service.

Even if New Vegas can stimulate economic growth it can do so only because of a stable economic situation outside its borders created by the NCR. That means it is a leech on the hard work the NCR invested in the wasteland, and the NCR would likely be better of without it.

It leeches the money soldiers get as payment. I assume they would spend it on booze and girls anyway, that's how "simple soldiers" are imagined in games usually. So it's better if that cash ends up in Mr. House's pocket, rather than local druglord.

I loved House's writing and character, but boy is he dumb.

I don't think so. What struck me dumb is the NCR however. Their government really thinks it can just bully every other town and country around until they kiss their feet and worship them because they bring "democracy" and "independence".

As if people WANTED their liberty and democracy in the first place. NCR plays global cop, but the intention is simple: more power, more toys (The Dam) and more taxpayers so more army can be commisioned so more land can be claimed.

I'm not saying it's a bad place to live, most likely the best one around, I must admit. But pre-war US was also great, much better than NCR. Doesn't it change the fact that the government ruling this great country was completely corrupted and homicidal? Does this change the fact the elected government lead the country to a devastating war and retaliated to the nuclear attack, wiping most of the earth (civilian targets mostly) out of existence? That it planned a ridiculous disgusting pseudo-medical experiment on the remnants of civilization?
Nope.
NCR isn't bad. Democracy and the way they govern their country is.

House offers a nice alternative. Enlightened autocracy, free of ambition and tribal aggression.

 

[Brother None]

I guess it's because the more planets we have, the lesser chance of humanity getting extinct because a nuclear war emerged.

Does he know of planets we can colonize? The plan is ludicrous.

But it's the ELECTED GOVERNMENT of pre-war time that built Vaults (with that "social" experiment series, which was pretty disgusting, reminded me of Nazi pseudo medical science) and retaliated against China with milions of nuclear warheads. You can't deny that.

I don't wish to. But do you really think China or Russia, which were both still autocracies as far as we know, were doing much better?

You seem to have an agenda against democracy which you're applying to this game even though it is clearly not the game's message. That's cool, but just to be clear, I'm not interested in your political philosophy so I will sidestep debates of that nature.

Flawless in his lack of ambition

That is exceedingly naive. He has already shown himself to be ruthless and uncaring of human life, and overly obsessed with a highly unrealistic "ideal" Vegas that never existed and can never exist.

Besides, humanity is flawed applies to House as well.

Joy?

Really? Crime syndicates, gambling, prostitution and alcohol equate joy? I don't think that's much of a long-term answer for the wasteland.

Well, House claims Strip is extremely profitable.

Yes? My question was "how is it extremely profitable". I know the game claims it is, but it never explains how these vast, empty casinos are profitable. How the Strip represents a worthwhile investment of material and manpower. Hell, the explanation that it is a megalomaniac's unlikely dream held up by his army of robots seems to be the only one available.

And keep in mind that there is a lot of soldiers inside.

Soldiers are exempt from the credit check, by way of the deal made between House and the NCR. This is explained ingame.

Vegas is a money-maker. That's all. House needs money and it's just his tool.

What? Vegas is his dream. It's his vision of the future. He says so, literally.

Again, there are cities that produce NOTHING and yet are very rich because of tourists. I don't understand why do you imply you HAVE to be industrial or agricultural and sell your products to make a rich community. Selling services also works. And gambling is a service.

No. It is impossible to create a rich economy from any service sector, and especially one as non-supplemental as gambling.
It is possible to create a rich segment of economy in an establish, wealthy economy based on the service sector. That's what Las Vegas is. It can exist only because there is an established, rich economy.

Factually, House's plan relies on there being an similarly rich, accessible economic powerhouse in existence, namely the NCR. For as much mockery as he throws at them, he is completely dependent on them. The NCR represents the future. New Vegas, at best, a leech riding on the future's coat-tails.

To actually create a rich economy, you can not start with the service sector. There is not a single historical example of a city that started out like that. Commerce, agriculture, industry, those are the foundation of economy, those are economic powerhouses. This isn't supposition, it is hard economic fact. If not, please cite a historical example of an economy that started out in the service sector. Even Las Vegas started out as a railstop/commerce town, and only capable of becoming a tourist/gambling driven town 30 years into its existence because it was a part of a large economy.

That's why House's claims that New Vegas has the capacity to become a driving economic force in the wasteland is simply short-sighted and untrue. And he never explains it either. He just goes into his dreamy voice and claims it will be. How? The Hub was the first major commerce town we know off after the war that functioned to restore the post-apocalyptic economy, and it had that capacity because on top of gambling and bars it offered a safe economic haven and was a transit point for caravans. Vegas offers no economic stimuli, at all.

It is ridiculous that Obsidian never noticed this and fixed it because it is so easy to fix. Make the Strip an economic safe haven. Have House's pre-war tech produce something unique for the Wasteland, like his robots, or weapons, or whatever. Right now, the only actual economic point of interest in the Mojave, other than minor points like Goodsprings source or HELIOS One, is the Hoover Dam, and the claim to it is seperate from New Vegas.

Like this, it doesn't work. House's dream is impossible. Not just impossible, it is insane and victimizes the people he ousted into the suburbs. He may be well-intentioned, but he doesn't have any realistic plan for the future.

It leeches the money soldiers get as payment.

NCR money. Because NCR is the powerhouse. But even so, I never saw how that was sufficient to justify the existence of the Strip. There weren't that many soldiers there, and they never seemed very rich. The branch of the NCR in the Mojave is having trouble feeding itself, do you really think they offer a solid economic base for New Vegas in that state? The game never explains.

Spiel against liberal democracy.

No thanks.

You're presenting New Vegas as an alternative. It isn't. Vegas can not exist except within the NCR. That is clear throughout the game. Independent or not, it is a part of NCR's economy. It can not be taken separately, because it can not subsist separately.

The Master offers a nice alternative. Enlightened autocracy, free of ambition and tribal aggression.

Fixed.

Hell, the analogies are many and wide. Both are megalomaniacal semi-immortals with a wide power reach based on non-humans, and an unrealistic, flawed plan for the future. Huh. Wonder if that was intentional.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Like this, it doesn't work. House's dream is impossible. Not just impossible, it is insane and victimizes the people he ousted into the suburbs. He may be well-intentioned, but he doesn't have any realistic plan for the future.

The only way I can see his plans work is that he'll use the money gained by selling water and electricity to the NCR to rebuild industries and finance his projects, while at the same time using part of that money to make New Vegas (his toy) flourish. This way he can start a cycle: he has a steady economic income, traders and workers will come in town and they will spend their money buying his products and gambling. I really can't see his vision working any other way.

But House being insane and detached from reality isn't necessarily a bad thing (it hurts the setting, though).

 

[Brother None]

Yes. That's why I mentioned it producing something would've been good. Hell there's old and somehow still functional factories near Vegas (how is the Steel Mill still active? I can't remember it being explained). A plan involving those would've been great. But I don't think House ever mentions them, or any industry, he just has a vague dream of the Strip as an economic powerhouse, and that's stupid.

How is an insane autocrat hurting the setting? Classic Fallout, really. House is just like Caesar in being ruthless towards a singular vision, only less brutal and silly about it.

 

[Lynette]

For me its kinda obvious that anything will go downhill, New Vegas (whoever rules it) the NCR, Ceasars legion, the Brotherhood, the Khans, the Boomers etc... they are all flawed and doomed to fail imo.

Mr. House might be one of the more pleasant versions or may not but its going the same route.

The only winners out of this will be some of the more violent raiders and the Radscorpions.

War never changes huh ?

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

How is an insane autocrat hurting the setting?

Because the New Vegas that-survives-only-with-gambling in the game is tied to him apparently thinking that it's all the town needs to thrive.

 

[Empty09]

House is first of all the best choice because he has no typical human weaknesses like (imo) getting addicted to alcohol or being sexually attracted by women. He's a corpse, a carcass, still he 200 years old, he GATHERS knowledge more and more even though he is a genius.
For example, Benny can be seduced by a woman player in game and get killed. Why? Because he couldn't get past his man-ish weakness. Do you think that would be possible with House?

About how House can be killed by the player.
= The player is GRANTED access inside the lucky 38.
No access to anyone, no death probability. Simple as that.

The way I see it about selfishness....
House needs to upgrade the securitrons and obtain more of them from that fort BEFORE doing ANYTHING else! No matter what his plan is, this is the first step he needs to accomplish. Seriously now, how can he even consider confronting NCR without AT LEAST having some great robots at his command.

If House was able to earn almost one million caps I don't see why he can't still produce money, even now when he doesn't have to spend money on finding that chip.

He acquires great power (when you chose to play his path) if he takes the Hoover Dam. I mean he has full energy now.
In my opinion the first goal after securing his robot muscle, upgraded and all that is to fund a factory, be it robotized ( why not? Seems the best choice) a factory with robots that build more robots. He can just invest in buying materials from other sources.

Then he could start offering protection to other cities, goodsprings for example and even fully protect freeside.

Eventually he'll start securing a watersource available for everyone, is just an easy task for him, he knows it's needed.

Who wouldn't follow the organization that has an half-man half-machine leader that has a great amount of power, army of deadly robots for protection and offers good living?

House can't fail, he just knows what needs to be done in order to progress and stick to the plan.

 

[Brother None]

If House was able to earn almost one million caps

Ok. How?

In my opinion.

Yeah none of that is actually in the game, is it?

 

[Empty09]

If House was able to earn almost one million caps

Ok. How?

In my opinion.

Yeah none of that is actually in the game, is it?

Don't tell me you didn't hear the line when he said he spent 800.000 caps in order to find the chip.

edit: Wait that was actually Yes Man, Yes man said that

 

[Brother None]

Don't tell me you didn't hear the line when he said he spent 800.000 caps in order to find the chip.

edit: Wait that was actually Yes Man, Yes man said that

Eh? I wasn't questioning his claim to a million caps, I was asking you: how did he make a million caps? I don't know if you read the posts directly above yours (it's considered good manners to read a thread before replying), but that was kind of the active debate.

The "none of that is actually in the game" was in reply to all your speculation, hence why I quoted "in my opinion", which is how you started the speculation.

 

[Nalano]

Large governments now - today - don't like to give license to gambling institutions because they don't actually add to the economy.

A local government might tolerate the tax money from a gambling institution because the wealth it leeches happens to come from beyond its borders - New Yorkers going to Atlantic City in New Jersey, for instance, or the national descent upon Las Vegas - but there first must be that wealth.

Gambling institutions don't create wealth, they just redistribute it towards the owners of the institutions.

As such, that House requires that NCR doesn't bar its civilians from Las Vegas is telling: He wouldn't have an economy otherwise.

- His water comes from the NCR.
- His power comes from the NCR.
- His money comes from the NCR.

Hell, the only people actually protecting the citizenry and economy around Las Vegas are the NCR military at Camp McCarren and Aerotech, and the concerted efforts of the NCR, the Kings and the Followers in Freeside, the Followers in Westside, and various vigilantes in North Vegas. The only efforts to feed the people are the NCR sharecropper farms and the Followers' cooperatives.

By all rights New Vegas is NCR territory in all but name.

 

[Bad_Karma]

Well looking even further through the dates in the Fallout wiki you will find the following ones.
The strip got hit in 2077, House awoke in 2138, the NCR appeared in 2274. So he spent 136 years sitting in his tower, only a few securitrons out there, hiring people for finding a chip in the Mojave. So he didn't even try to built anything before one of his scouting Securitrons saw the NCR.

Given the time it takes to reactivate the rest of his securitrons once he got the chip i don't think he needed to rebuilt a lot in his tower. An that leaves him with waiting for someone bringing him the chip.
So i really don't think he's a great leader if he's wasting over 100 years in finding a little chip out there in the Mojave instead of really adapting to the new situation and trying to come up with another plan...

 

[Nalano]

Well looking even further through the dates in the Fallout wiki you will find the following ones.
The strip got hit in 2077, House awoke in 2138, the NCR appeared in 2274. So he spent 136 years sitting in his tower, only a few securitrons out there, hiring people for finding a chip in the Mojave. So he didn't even try to built anything before one of his scouting Securitrons saw the NCR.

Given the time it takes to reactivate the rest of his securitrons once he got the chip i don't think he needed to rebuilt a lot in his tower. An that leaves him with waiting for someone bringing him the chip.
So i really don't think he's a great leader if he's wasting over 100 years in finding a little chip out there in the Mojave instead of really adapting to the new situation and trying to come up with another plan...

So it should come to no surprise that within two weeks of the Courier rolling into town, he finds himself deader than Disco.

 

[DForge]

Does he know of planets we can colonize? The plan is ludicrous.

Can't answer - not explained ingame. we can only speculate that most likely he can develop a tech that allows him to find the planets. Who knows, his tech is so outside-real-world that claiming something "impossible" because something is impossible in the real world is rather out of place. If he can live forever, construct superintelligent machines mapped out of people's nerve system and so on, why can't he create a space exploration program?

I don't wish to. But do you really think China or Russia, which were both still autocracies as far as we know, were doing much better?

Were they ruled by a 300 year old genious, that claims himself free of human needs and ambitions? most likely not. Sadly, there's not much data in FO universe about other countries, so I can't really say anything about this.

You seem to have an agenda against democracy which you're applying to this game even though it is clearly not the game's message. That's cool, but just to be clear, I'm not interested in your political philosophy so I will sidestep debates of that nature.

No. I don't mix real world with Fallout world.

Fallout world's democracy sucks.

That is exceedingly naive. He has already shown himself to be ruthless and uncaring of human life, and overly obsessed with a highly unrealistic "ideal" Vegas that never existed and can never exist.

I pointed out he's cold and incapable of empathy myself.

Like a computer.

Can a computer be a bad decision-maker? In FO universe, assuming the incredibly advanced AI existing in that world?

I think it's much better decision maker than Richardson. And House isn't a computer, so... he's even better. Won't deem humanity a threat to the world like Skynet.

Besides, humanity is flawed applies to House as well.

He isn't exacly your average human.

Really? Crime syndicates, gambling, prostitution and alcohol equate joy? I don't think that's much of a long-term answer for the wasteland.

Yeah, annexing everything that lives, whether it wants to be a part of "glorious" NCR or not?

House is definitively going in a better direction than NCR.

Yeah, I think that a benevolent autocrat - stripped of human ambition but not being a soulless machine either - is the absolute best humanity can achieve. Helios from DX series is what I consider a perfect solution to all "problematic" fantasy/apocalypse worlds.

(No I don't consider it the best option for OUR world! I think "our" humanity is a bit...well... more "aware". Cold war didn't end with nuclear holocaust after all)

Yes? My question was "how is it extremely profitable". I know the game claims it is, but it never explains how these vast, empty casinos are profitable. How the Strip represents a worthwhile investment of material and manpower. Hell, the explanation that it is a megalomaniac's unlikely dream held up by his army of robots seems to be the only one available.

Let's see..

casinos are empty because your game would crash after generating 1000 npcs in one place. Non-canon restriction. (this also explains why Hoover dam battle consists of killing 20 legion soldiers.)

How's it profitable? Well think again: If, say, 10.000 soldiers are regularly spending all they have in casinos, it generates a LOT of cash. Quite simple, isn't it?

Oh, wait... you probably don't like the word "generated".
Ok, let's say "it transfers a lot of cash to house's pocket".

Never claimed it does anything else.

Sorry, not a native speaker. Language barrier

Soldiers are exempt from the credit check, by way of the deal made between House and the NCR. This is explained ingame.

Thanks, didn't know that. I Must have missed that part.

What? Vegas is his dream. It's his vision of the future. He says so, literally.

Does this mean it can't be ALSO a money maker?



As for the part where you explain economy: Obsidian devs most likely aren't experts in economy fields and what they create as "great economy" may suck realisitically. You also can't realistically explain ghoul transformation and such. Instead of writing why it's can't be done in real world, I'll just take House's words that it's a moneymaker as a given. It's branded as economical success of House by both House AND NCR so while it sucks in real life... consider it lack of knowledge by Obsidian, or whatever that they described it this way.

Fact is: it works. Technical details aren't important here. It's like you would want details on why basic laws of physics don't apply to Fallout Universe (i.e. those concerning radiation).

NCR money. Because NCR is the powerhouse. But even so, I never saw how that was sufficient to justify the existence of the Strip. There weren't that many soldiers there, and they never seemed very rich. The branch of the NCR in the Mojave is having trouble feeding itself, do you really think they offer a solid economic base for New Vegas in that state? The game never explains.

Again, what would happen to the NCR money otherwise? You think that soldiers not gambling for House would make the world a better place? Seems rather naive to me People like sex, gambling, drugs and such and will pay for it. NCR soldiers aren't FORCED to go to casinos actually. Seems like they don't really have anything else to do with their money. Take House's casinos away and they will turn to local druglords.
(If you want a real life analogy here, I'd say: just like they do in real life. No legal drugs = people buy them from drug dealers putting cash in druglords' pocket. I don't like any real-life comparisons between real world and FO universe though..)

You're presenting New Vegas as an alternative. It isn't. Vegas can not exist except within the NCR. That is clear throughout the game. Independent or not, it is a part of NCR's economy. It can not be taken separately, because it can not subsist separately.

Vegas isn't an alternative.
ANd I said myself House NEEDS New California Republic.
He doesn't hide it, either.

What Vegas is - let me tell you - a better choice to support (imho) when role playing. Independent Vegas. Why? many reasons.

First and foremost is that House defended Vegas from nuclear holocaust and just because of that, it should remain his.

Again, if you were born a genious, in a city you love, discovered tech that allowed you to save it from a nuclear holocaust, and 200 years later a short-sighted president came and told you "join NCR or else", would you be happy to give away what you lived for?

If you're role-playing a good guy, NCR has no right to ask for this, because New Vegas isn't a scattered waste. Vegas is an organized city ruled by a leader - Mr. House - and expresses no wish of joining republic. NCR should accept that.

They don't. They plot on assassinating House instead and taking the Vegas by force.

I don't like it as a roleplayer. That makes them like Enclave in my eyes: they just want more power and flashy toys. "serving the people", yeah. Liberalism under someone's trail carbine isn't really fun.

NCR already plotted with Bishops to force Vault City into joining them by sending raiders to murder their people. This faction's government was pretty low even when Tandi ruled.

I think you can't deny that

NCR's government is corrupted and it reminds me- personally - of Enclave.

Fixed.

The master wanted to force people into becoming mutants.
House doesn't care for what people do in their time, as he states himself. he's pretty liberal in that part.

Hell, the analogies are many and wide. Both are megalomaniacal semi-immortals with a wide power reach based on non-humans, and an unrealistic, flawed plan for the future. Huh. Wonder if that was intentional.

Master was mad. Like Pol-Pot, like Hitler (sorry for real-life examples), he wanted a "super race" of people. Of course, by forcing them to become one. Pol Pot wanted Khmer Super-Farmers. Hitler wanted Super-Aryans. Master wanted Super-Mutants. That's a proper analogy.

Does House want to destroy people's lives? NO! He only wishes to remain independent so he can focus on is projects. Space project can actually prove very useful to NCR people as well.

And guess what: House can only keep his projects alive if:

(as he says himself)

he has power: solved by Hoover Dam
he has money: solved by casino "economy"
he has defense: solved by securitrons

And what does he do in game? Exactly that. Upgrades his defense, secures his money-draining "economy", gets power he needs AND protects himself of double-bear annexation.

Every and each of those steps were necessary for him to work on greater things in peace.

Cheers.

 

[Brother None]

Can't answer - not explained ingame.

Then I won't make up shit to make it make sense. I could do that for Fallout 3 a lot too. If a game doesn't explain something, I won't do it for it.

I don't wish to. But do you really think China or Russia, which were both still autocracies as far as we know, were doing much better?

Were they ruled by a 300 year old genious, that claims himself free of human needs and ambitions?

You seriously are way too big a fanboy of Mr House. He clearly has ambitions, and clearly has an overly singular, monorailed vision, not allowing any deviation of the course he has decided on. He is not a perfect ruler if such a thing could even exist, he's still a human. Your entire argument rests on him, well, not being that, but he is.

Fallout world's democracy sucks.

Comparatively? No, no it doesn't. Fallout shows humanity as flawed, regardless of how they're ruled. They do not exclusively show democracy as flawed, that's just something you're making up.

Can a computer be a bad decision-maker

Yes? Because it is rational, and not human, but making decisions for human. Fallout has supercomputers by the way, though none ruling anything, unless you want to count the Calculator.

He isn't exacly your average human.

But still human.

Yeah, annexing everything that lives, whether it wants to be a part of "glorious" NCR or not?

Actually, multiple cities throughout Fallout 2 and New Vegas were independent of the NCR and could in some paths remain so. NCR pushes for annexation, yes, but they've never invaded a city.

House is a threat to the NCR, so it's not like they have that many options there.

Yeah, I think that a benevolent autocrat - stripped of human ambition but not being a soulless machine either - is the absolute best humanity can achieve.

Well, I think that's ridiculous. Especially since you think "stripped of human ambition" is applicable to House when he a) has ambition and b) has human needs (see girl robot).

How's it profitable? Well think again: If, say, 10.000 soldiers are regularly spending all they have in casinos, it generates a LOT of cash. Quite simple, isn't it?

It is. Too bad you made it up, and the game never properly explains it. How many soldiers are in the Mojave? How much spending money do they have? Why would they not save up said money or send it back as many moneys do?

Does this mean it can't be ALSO a money maker?

You just said Vegas is "just his tool". You are contradicting yourself. It's either just a tool or also a goal.

You also can't realistically explain ghoul transformation and such.
(...)
Fact is: it works. Technical details aren't important here. It's like you would want details on why basic laws of physics don't apply to Fallout Universe (i.e. those concerning radiation).

You don't want to go there. The "but this setting his (this and this impossible thing)" excuse never works. If New Vegas had pink ponies, would you just say "I can't realistically explain them, but neither can I explain ghouls"?

Fallout uses Science!, that means it has a set verisimilitude, a reality in which our laws of mutation don't apply. That does not mean no laws apply at all. The Hub made sense in economic law, as does the NCR. And then suddenly one location is exempt? It doesn't work that way.

Again, what would happen to the NCR money otherwise? You think that soldiers not gambling for House would make the world a better place?

You misunderstood, that is not what I was talking about. I'm questioning where the base productivity comes from. The NCR has no real productivity in the Mojave either. There's a few caravan houses, but that's it. So where's the base productivity that supports a place like New Vegas? Where's the food, where's the good, where's the economy? Apparently we should assume it's back out in the NCR mainland? That still invalidates everything House is saying even if it explains New Vegas.

Vegas isn't an alternative.

House offers a nice alternative.

There's no point in talking to you if you're just going to keep contradicting yourself.

First and foremost is that House defended Vegas from nuclear holocaust and just because of that, it should remain his.

Heh, Benny would disagree.

Again, if you were born a genious, in a city you love, discovered tech that allowed you to save it from a nuclear holocaust, and 200 years later a short-sighted president came and told you "join NCR or else", would you be happy to give away what you lived for?

Yes. Because you're not the only person living in and working in the city, and you have no right to make that decision.

If you're role-playing a good guy, NCR has no right to ask for this, because New Vegas isn't a scattered waste.

What? The NCR is the only thing keeping Vegas safe from the Legion. They provide all the money Vegas has. They keep the outskirts of Vegas safe from raiders. They brought in caravan trade. They are the only reason New Vegas is what it is. How do they have no right? They have every right.

NCR already plotted with Bishops to force Vault City into joining them by sending raiders to murder their people. This faction's government was pretty low even when Tandi ruled.

I think you can't deny that

I don't think it's relevant. In a world where raiders, slavers and super mutants run amock, NCR chooses to use as little force as possible, working where possible to cause as few casualties as they can, always preferring politics to violence. They are so ridiculously superior to every other option, it's not even funny.

Of course, by forcing them to become one.

Oh. So kind of like how House takes tribals and forces them to become his ruling casino houses, not giving them any choice (ask Benny, he sent 20 robots to force his nomadic tribe to become the Chairmen). Oh, and then he forces people out of their homes so he can create a segregated ideal society as defined by himself inside the borders.

Right, totally not like those other guys at all.

And what does he do in game? Exactly that. Upgrades his defense, secures his money-draining "economy", gets power he needs AND protects himself of double-bear annexation.

You mean he plays off different armies to slaughter one another, has no problem letting the NCR kill themselves to protect his area, has the courier destroy a bunker full of people, and then annexates a dam he has no right to, to then leech power that is desperately needed in the wasteland to power the Strip.
Yeah, he's totally the good guy there.

Looks like you have some holes in your knowledge about House