New dev diary on Fallout 3 site

[Stag]

Mutants: No. Just no.
Fashion: Mostly yes. I like the Wasteland Merchant (far left dude), and the leather armor chick. Ambivalent to happy about the rest, though I don't really know how I feel about that chimney sweep looking dude with the Police hat.
Vault Suits: Still suck.
Architecture: Good.
Machinery: Largely yes, but that parking meter sums up everything I don't like about the style of the game; there's just too much shit on it.
Weaponry: Don't really like it. Again, same style as the meter, and I don't dig it. That bigger cannon gun deally (reminds me of the Sundog or whatever from Blade 3) is OK.
Creatures: I hate cockroaches and bugs, so I don't even really have an objective opinion as far as that goes. I don't mind the crabman, it reminds me of the old timey movies with people dressed up in gorilla suits pretending to be King Kong or a gremlin or what have you. The deathclaw is a bit off, but I can live with it. I have no idea what the frak that tongue dude is supposed to be, but I don't like it. As far as brahmin go, I liked the one getting killed but the other two suck. Pig sucks.
Robots: They look like a shitty, raped version of Big Guy. Do not want.

Overall score: 67. (given 50 as a neutral score, not a US School system score). Generally I don't like the tone, the style of much of the design. The idea behind it seems to be "let's see how overly ornate I can make this", which just leads to shitty art that looks like shit. It's purposeless detail, and it really ruins much of the art for me.

 

[Brother None]

I honestly can't believe all the naysaying and nitpicking going on. This concept art is fantastic.

Most of us like some of it and dislike some of it. You like some of it and dislike some of it. Just because we like/dislike different parts than you, we are naysaying/nitpicking? does not compute. Hell, I find your comment on the brahmin anal, when you have as little to eat as the wastelanders do, you're not apt to care about how disgusting your food looks. Honestly.

I don't understand why people have problems with the cockroach.

Almost nobody was talking about the cockroach, so who are you referring to? I'm not even sure if Eyenixon and Seymour are talking about the cockroach or the Garthim-lite in their comments.

I really recommend that anyone who thinks this art isn't "unified" or "consistent" (it's about as consistent as mutated post-apocalyptic 50s-era science of tomorrow style can be), or thinks that they like it but it "isn't fallout", read the comments by the artist on the actual website.

You assume people haven't...because...? Fill in the blanks for me here. I've read the comments, some of it makes sense, some of it explains how he doesn't get it.

People have been complaining that the deathclaws are too skinny, or not skinny enough, so I'd say the art has hit the cynical sweet spot.

What? That doesn't even begin to make sense.

I'm willing to bet a silhouette of one of these guys will match up exactly to any previous deathclaw models

Nope, the fingers, to start, are elongated into points, same goes for the toes, too long, hell...legs, too long. Doesn't match up.

 

[Rahungry]

First time I saw the concept art for the Supermutants It reminded me more of this.

 

[Zaptoman]

I really liked the environments and machines (Nuka-Cola machine ftw!), but have a problem with the robots. The only one close is the brain robot, the rest to me just look out of place. The attire is pretty spot-on if you ask me. The creatures seem to be hit and miss. I liked the radscorpion the best. The molerat is good, the deathclaw is OK, and the rest to me are just...blah. Again with the supermutants...meh. Its all been said before, they just look...wrong.

 

[Seymour the spore plant]

I'm not even sure if Eyenixon and Seymour are talking about the cockroach or the Garthim-lite in their comments

Wow, there's an actual cockroach in there. I missed it completely the first time around .

I, for one, was talking about that crab-thing on the top-left, whose somewhat insect-like "tail" might have thrown me off. Don't mind the real cockroach at all, and honestly can't see why someone would.

I have no idea what the frak that tongue dude is supposed to be, but I don't like it

I'm guessing it's their rendition of a centaur, what with the human parts fused with a nondescript blob of flesh, and those tongues do look like those weird appendages they used to have. But I do share your feeling about it.

 

[bazola]

terebikun your post angers my soul.

I even like the super mutant; I always felt the previous super mutant art made them look too silly to be taken as seriously as the threat they're supposed to be.

In F1 I would consider the master to be the real threat, and the mutants are just pawns in his game. In F2 many of the mutants are neutral, and one is a close ally with complex motivations. One thing they certainly are not, is generic bad guys who are supposed to be an end-all-be-all threat. Furthermore as others mentioned the ridiculous aspects of their look are part of the essence of Fallout, it's dark humor. I don't think you understand that at all.

the really disgusting Brahmin, which while being possibly more realistic would anyone really be desperate enough to use that thing for sustenance?

What about a desperate world struggling for survival doesn't make sense to your console addled brain? It's not disgusting enough that they have two heads, but to actually see their irradiated skin sets you off the disgusted edge? The whole point is that the people in the Fallout universe would gladly eat brahmin, because they are desperate to survive. How many left over cans of beans do you think there are?

I don't understand why people have problems with the cockroach. Is it really more ridiculous than a mantis? Plus, I always wondered where the cockroaches were, since after all this is the post-apocalypse and they're supposed to be the little guys who'll survive it.

I think another, intentional aspect of Fallout's dark humor is that there aren't cockroaches. Here it is, a post apocalyptic world come to life, and the old saying about cockroaches surviving doesn't hold water. The universe is telling you to reevaluate your preconceived notions. But no, you'd rather just have cockroaches because "people say they would survive the apocalypse." Well, in that case I think Cher should be the end boss of Fallout 3.

I really recommend that anyone who thinks this art isn't "unified" or "consistent" (it's about as consistent as mutated post-apocalyptic 50s-era science of tomorrow style can be)

You're dead wrong. Nuff said.

 

[Brother None]

I think another, intentional aspect of Fallout's dark humor is that there aren't cockroaches. Here it is, a post apocalyptic world come to life, and the old saying about cockroaches surviving doesn't hold water. The universe is telling you to reevaluate your preconceived notions.

What? That's bullshit and pretty damned far-fetched.

 

[TTTimo]

Since we have a lot of talented readers here, why not we come up with a few concept art pieces of our own to compete and show how much closer we are to the real spirit of Fallout?

Instead of saying 'I hate mutant orcs' or 'NO to reptilian anorexia!', we can try and come up with something better. That will give us a better position to judge/comment on the designs. From a designer's point of view, it is better to back up the criticism with better versions of the work.

So, I say, lets crank out some good stuff.

P.S. It can give modders out there a good base on which to reference, should they work on changing in-game assets.

 

[Brother None]

Since we have a lot of talented readers here, why not we come up with a few concept art pieces of our own to compete and show how much closer we are to the real spirit of Fallout?

Uh, ok, here you go.

 

[bazola]

What? That's bullshit and pretty damned far-fetched.

Then where are the huge irradiated cockroaches.

 

[TTTimo]

Since we have a lot of talented readers here, why not we come up with a few concept art pieces of our own to compete and show how much closer we are to the real spirit of Fallout?

Uh, ok, here you go.

Oops, how ignorant of me.

 

[Rahungry]

Since we have a lot of talented readers here, why not we come up with a few concept art pieces of our own to compete and show how much closer we are to the real spirit of Fallout?

Instead of saying 'I hate mutant orcs' or 'NO to reptilian anorexia!', we can try and come up with something better. That will give us a better position to judge/comment on the designs. From a designer's point of view, it is better to back up the criticism with better versions of the work.

So, I say, lets crank out some good stuff.

P.S. It can give modders out there a good base on which to reference, should they work on changing in-game assets.

I agree i have never done a mod before in my life, but if it comes with a CS, i would definately work my butt off to improve the mutants.
Considering you have the ability to do so with a CS.
Im an IT major, but i've never done a mod before. But when it comes to fallout i would give it my best shot!

 

[Brother None]

Then where are the huge irradiated cockroaches.

They weren't there.

That doesn't mean they weren't there intentionally, which you implied. Fallout didn't include everything that could possibly make sense in the setting, that's a way too narrow attitude to take.

Fallout's dark irony was of a very specific tinge. It wasn't about people's expectations not being met, it was about the world starkly contrasting itself: the A-Bomb that destroyed humanity comes back to save it, the FEV that was supposed to protect NA nearly destroys it.

On the other hand, if you have recognizable if over-sized critters like rats or ants, why not cockroaches?

Oops, how ignorant of me.

I must say, digging through the archives, we have plenty of good pieces, like...


But no real good stuff on super mutants or deathclaws. Some decent drawings, sure, of both supermutants and deathclaws, but nothing particularly superior to what Bethesda produced.

Still, if you want "better than Bethesda", then I hate to say it but this is the place to go. Other than a few misses, this stuff just screams "hey I'm better than you"

 

[Maldarioth]

Does anyone know why post-apoc cityscapes never look like they've actually been hit by an A-bomb?

I mean shouldnt 99% of the buildings be heaps of rubble (don't get me started on the washington monument )?

 

[simdude]

I wanted a hyper jacked up caricature of a person in the throes of radioactive testosterone poisoning, and liking it.

They carried their victims caged in shopping carts strapped to their backs. You know, just in case they got peckish after a fight, and wanted a snack.

That sounds more orc to me than super mutant. And it does look like an orc and not lika a super mutant.

Come to think of it, he actually got what he wanted: a hyper jacked up, testosterone poisoned, cannibal orc.

Too bad the dude has no idea what a super mutant was and how it looked like. That's really staying true to the original, a proper sequel.

 

[cccino]

Then where are the huge irradiated cockroaches.

Why wouldn't they be normal sized cockroaches? Aren't they supposed to be radiation-proof?

 

[4too]

Wheel Barrel Of The Godz

Wheel Barrel Of The Godz



Pope Viper:

SHOPPING CARTS???

WTF?!??!

Why?
Could be referring to the utilitarian conveyance featured in, and cannibals or humans as prey, the desperate survivalism in, Cormac McCarthy's "The Road".

Whether chromed or stainless, the steel cart would be the type of industrial design that 'keeps on giving',
long after the supermarket's miles of isles of plenty are stripped bare
and man's hunter gather instincts lead them out and about ... ironically equipped... into the post apocalyptic cornucopia ...


..........................

Of "" naysaying and nitpicking "" ...

As to the conceptual conveyance utilized in viewing the featured commercial art, the (looking) glass that many pour their thoughts into,


Crowfoot:

Well, no one is denying that it's good artwork, it's just that some folks are desperate to see some shred of the essence of Fallout recaptured at this late stage. I will admit that, within the context of what Bethesda are trying to do with the series, it's great stuff, and I personally am willing to give their vision of the setting a fair go, but in terms of what we as fans recognize when we read the word 'Fallout', it doesn't quite hit the mark. ...

Useful observation to pivot the sturm und drang upon.

... to see some shred of the essence of Fallout recaptured at this late stage ...

that can get one going on to the , half empty -- half full, stage drama of ... free speech soliloquies ...

which we are blessed to witness here @ NMA.

What the 'storm and furry' signifies is ... naturally a viewer discretion.





4too

 

[terebikun]

Most of us like some of it and dislike some of it. You like some of it and dislike some of it. Just because we like/dislike different parts than you, we are naysaying/nitpicking? does not compute. Hell, I find your comment on the brahmin anal, when you have as little to eat as the wastelanders do, you're not apt to care about how disgusting your food looks. Honestly.

Well, I would consider your remarks about elongated legs to be nitpicking, but whatever. It seems like everyone has one tiny physical feature they dislike about one of the critters, which is fine, but I consider it picking a nit. As for naysaying, calling the art "inconsistent" without any backup argument as a way to put it down is ridiculous. I mostly based my comment on one post where someone called for Pete Hines to be shot in the head, but that post seems to have been deleted. And the brahmin, yeah I'll admit I'm being anal. But in a world where you're terrified of radiation poisoning, do you really want to drink milk from those udders? I guess you could eat poisonous plants and drink water with lead in it too, but I wouldn't recommend it, even when starving.

Almost nobody was talking about the cockroach, so who are you referring to? I'm not even sure if Eyenixon and Seymour are talking about the cockroach or the Garthim-lite in their comments.

I was actually referring to Eyenixon and Seymour's posts, but on review they seem to be talking about the crabman thing. I guess when I think of a cockroach monster I don't picture it having claws, so it threw me off.

You assume people haven't...because...? Fill in the blanks for me here. I've read the comments, some of it makes sense, some of it explains how he doesn't get it.

Well he clearly states in his comments what his influences and references are, which seem to subscribe directly to the Fallout art design philosophy, but few people here agree. You yourself say it looks steampunk, which I can't see at all, and it's not among any of his influences. I didn't say that I believed no one here had visited the link, but I did get the impression that a few people had simply looked at the pictures hosted here, and wanted to point out his comments do offer some insight.

What? That doesn't even begin to make sense.

If some people are saying the Deathclaw is too skinny, and a few other people are saying the Deathclaw is too big, then the design is as balanced as it's going to get for cynics. I for one think the concept art looks almost exactly like what I pictured for a detailed deathclaw. You can disagree with me, but a lot of complaints seem to be on opposite ends of its build spectrum, which is funny to me. Seems like proof that unless you rip the sprite from F1/2 and enlarge it, people aren't going to like it.

Nope, the fingers, to start, are elongated into points, same goes for the toes, too long, hell...legs, too long. Doesn't match up.

Look at the toes on that guy, then look at the deathclaw on the far right of the concept art. They seem to match up. Legs also seem to be about the same length compared to the rest of the body. I'm not sure which deathclaw (canon or concept art) you're referring to about pointed fingers, but they both seem to have long fingers ending in claws, so whatever. In fact the only thing I can spot that would ruin the silhouette matchup is the new guy's spines, which inform all the Diablo comparisons, but they're not too prominent.

Finally:

In F1 I would consider the master to be the real threat, and the mutants are just pawns in his game. In F2 many of the mutants are neutral, and one is a close ally with complex motivations. One thing they certainly are not, is generic bad guys who are supposed to be an end-all-be-all threat. Furthermore as others mentioned the ridiculous aspects of their look are part of the essence of Fallout, it's dark humor. I don't think you understand that at all.

Well, who's really the threat, the general or the army he commands? After hearing about this giant offstage mutant army about to swipe the land I figured they were the threat, but that's another debate. I never said they were generic bad guys, or anything like that, I just said that I found their look -too- silly. I'm not going to argue with you about "understanding" Fallout, but the dark humor is one of the biggest things I love about the game. I guess I love something I'm oblivious to? The one criticism about the super mutant design I will agree with is someone said the old guys' skin looked more bullet proof, and I think it's too bad they didn't incorporate it more into the new design. But then again, this is concept art, and the super mutants/behemoths look somewhat hastily colored, so there'll likely be some discrepancy in this art and in the final game. I will point out most of my experience is with Fallout 1 and I haven't played much of 2, so if you want to build your straw man around that go ahead.

I think another, intentional aspect of Fallout's dark humor is that there aren't cockroaches. Here it is, a post apocalyptic world come to life, and the old saying about cockroaches surviving doesn't hold water. The universe is telling you to reevaluate your preconceived notions. But no, you'd rather just have cockroaches because "people say they would survive the apocalypse." Well, in that case I think Cher should be the end boss of Fallout 3.

You're going to pull a muscle, reaching this hard. Have you ever tried to rid an area of cockroaches? There's a reason that saying exists. As for Cher, what? I'm not even sure what you're mocking, or referencing, in regards to. Do people think Cher is going to survive the apocalypse? Out of all female musicians, I think I'd hedge my bets on Gloria Gaynor.

You're dead wrong. Nuff said.

A clever and well-thought out argument. I feel enriched having experienced your side of things.

 

[radnan]

kinda wish it was more simple and elegant in a 50s way and not tired with detail like some of these are

a good example would be the VB art

 

[UncannyGarlic]

I wanted a hyper jacked up caricature of a person in the throes of radioactive testosterone poisoning, and liking it.

They carried their victims caged in shopping carts strapped to their backs. You know, just in case they got peckish after a fight, and wanted a snack.

That sounds more orc to me than super mutant. And it does look like an orc and not lika a super mutant.

Come to think of it, he actually got what he wanted: a hyper jacked up, testosterone poisoned, cannibal orc.

Too bad the dude has no idea what a super mutant was and how it looked like. That's really staying true to the original, a proper sequel.

You and everyone else who says that the new Super Mutants are Orcs are all totally and uterrly wrong; the comments by the artist make it implicitly clear that they are ogres.

Fe, fi, fo, fum,
I'll rape your wives
and eat your young.

Most of us like some of it and dislike some of it. You like some of it and dislike some of it. Just because we like/dislike different parts than you, we are naysaying/nitpicking? does not compute. Hell, I find your comment on the brahmin anal, when you have as little to eat as the wastelanders do, you're not apt to care about how disgusting your food looks. Honestly.

Well, I would consider your remarks about elongated legs to be nitpicking, but whatever. It seems like everyone has one tiny physical feature they dislike about one of the critters, which is fine, but I consider it picking a nit. As for naysaying, calling the art "inconsistent" without any backup argument as a way to put it down is ridiculous. I mostly based my comment on one post where someone called for Pete Hines to be shot in the head, but that post seems to have been deleted. And the brahmin, yeah I'll admit I'm being anal. But in a world where you're terrified of radiation poisoning, do you really want to drink milk from those udders? I guess you could eat poisonous plants and drink water with lead in it too, but I wouldn't recommend it, even when starving.

Most of the time when you try to make an argument you don't completely turn around and do what you're arguing against since it's a little thing called hypocracy which isn't so good for credibility...

Robots: The lost in space brain bot is the only one that looks Fallout to me, the rest just don't work. The furturistic, steampunk-esc Iron Giant has no place in Fallout, Mr. Handy looks like he came from an alternate dimension that's plain futuritistic, the beast in the lower right's gun has too much going on (like all of the weapons) and still has something of a steampunk feel to it (though it's closer than the Iron Man), Sputnik looks just like it's name, 60's Russian, and the stuff in the background hits on MegaMan, I-Robot, Iron Man, and Gundam Wing (the thing between Iron Man and Mr. Handy looks like a Cancer with non-aquatic arms and legs).
Super Mutants: Look like LOTR ogres that timewarped to a post apocolyptic world and where made in a wider variety of sizes.
Weapons: The deluxe thing and electro~ both look alright, the rest doesn't fit Fallout at all. Now that we know how the flaming sword works I'm even more depressed, it's a fucking flamethrower sword. I want to know who thought that idea was a good one because they should be fired.
Fasion: The merchant guy on the left looks alright but the quallity is significantly less than the rest, the leather jacket armor looks good, the metal armor guy looks alright except that his helmet is that of a Russian cosminaught (seems to be a common theme...), the guy in the upper right I like even though it doesn't exude Fallout, the people in the lower right have no place in Fallout, they look like I'd imagine people would have looked a few months after the war, not almost 200 years after it, the Vault Suits look better than they do in game but they still don't look like Fallout Vault Suits to me (cool designs, too iconic of armor to change as much as it has).
Mechanical Gizmos: Look pretty good for the most part with the parking meter and tower thing sticking out as god awful with way too much shit going on. I don't get the duck and cover capsule and it seems like something like that would have been in previous games so...
Scenery: Too much crap going on in the first one, very generic for most of it, Russian and Metropolis looking stuff for others, the house looks close but still not quite right, like the backend of the plane, the upper right picture of the last of the pictures with the street with the houses looks pretty good although I don't think the houses look run down enough (a little nitpicky there), the Washington Monument one just looks terrible.
Creatures: I kinda like the idea of crab men but the way that it's done doesn't even whisper Fallout to me, Deathclaws look like they've been made to serious/"realistic" with too much spikeyness going on and misproportioned extremities, Bramen look like they've gone to far with the whole mutatation thing with the worms coming out of the face and the FEV-like lumpyness, mole rat and radscorpians are pretty good, liked the Fallout Tactics cocroaches better but this is fine, centaur guy looks pretty bad but I'd like to see it in totallity because it might be alright if they removed the glasses, tie, and sweater vest.

Overall: Good art, 60-70% of which doesn't say Fallout to me, 25-35% looks like it has no place in a Fallout game, 5-10% captured the feel of Fallout.