New dev diary on Fallout 3 site

[Von Drunky]

I'm a bit confused, the super mutants as well as all the other characters from the original were vague outlines which was cool because it was up to the player use their imagination to fill in the blanks. But in today’s era of graphics you’re not getting away with that. So I don’t understand why most of you are rioting over something that is open to interpretation.

 

[Sander]

I'm a bit confused, the super mutants as well as all the other characters from the original were vague outlines which was cool because it was up to the player use their imagination to fill in the blanks. But in today’s era of graphics you’re not getting away with that. So I don’t understand why most of you are rioting over something that is open to interpretation.

Ehm, the Super Mutants weren't vague outlines, they were pretty clear in posture, proportions and style- and we don't see any of that back in Bethesda's drawings.

 

[Dembol]

I kinda dig the concept art.
Enviroment/Fashion/creatures look good. Some of them don't look exactly fallout-ish, but still is a nice addition. Only few minor glitches there. The merchant made me laugh, because it reminded me of Rob Liefeld characters (so many pouches!!).
Vault suits, will do (although they look too wasteland-ish, sewn from many pieces compared to sterile looking, few seams, one-piece, tight fitting spandex-like body suit that I always thougt it was).
Non-humanoid robots are very nice. Others suck.
I love some of the weapons. I always liked the concept of building weapons from all kinds of stuff. I just hope that on contraty to Arcanum carrying a lot of junk to built weapons from will actually be rewarding and that we'll also see plenty of regular guns.
Supermutants are totaly wrong. They should be called angry zombie orcs not supermutants. They look too generic (which was pointed out many times).

 

[Ashmo]

I love it how some people don't get it in their heads that low resolution is not the same as lack of graphical reference material.

Fallout used 3D models. The textures were low quality, the polygon count was somewhat low and what we see in the game is only the pre-rendered result, but going by the sprites, the talking heads and the vault raid video (!) we got a pretty good idea of what LOOKS like a supermutant and what doesn't.

Bethesda's stuff does NOT.

 

[Brother None]

Top left and middle left don't look "big, sluggish, hulking, bent over" to you?

Only the Behemoth looks like that in the game. None of the other mutants look like that.

For a forum that's claimed to have distilled Fallout to its essence or whatever, there seems to be a lot of dispute over what that actually is.

Dispute? Healthy discussion.

There is no discussion on what the core is. Plenty on the details. We're discussing details now, so there's bound to be some dispute.

There's discord only for those looking for it.

The difference between style deviation and style evolution is a matter of semantics and subjective opinion

No it isn't, and that's a cop-out. I don't know how you could possibly not identify the difference between evolving the style of supermutants as I described it or going for the "bigger humans" mutants we've seen in Return to Castle Wolfenstein and so many other games and are just popular now.

Maybe rolling your eyes so much is what's got you seeing steampunk.

Funny, nobody managed to refute my point that I was talking about style, not setting, yet here you act as if I was proven wrong.

It doesn't work that way. Prove me wrong before acting smug.

'm a bit confused, the super mutants as well as all the other characters from the original were vague outlines

Even ignoring the fact that Fallout 2D artists were well capable of showing of details in 2D sprites...
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=PfyqlMBeQFU[/youtube]
And for faces we have talking heads. We have plenty of details. Oodles.

 

[welsh]

I'm a bit confused, the super mutants as well as all the other characters from the original were vague outlines which was cool because it was up to the player use their imagination to fill in the blanks. But in today’s era of graphics you’re not getting away with that. So I don’t understand why most of you are rioting over something that is open to interpretation.

Note sig-

And there are other talking heads of mutants. One would think that those are pretty clear representations of what a Mutant looks like.

To be honest, the best way for Bethesda to dodge this might be to develop an alternative form of supermutant, something else that affected a large group of individuals and turned them into such monsters. Frankly, a mutant army marching from California to DC seems like a big stretch of the imagination or an abuse of canon- take your pick.

 

[Slaughter Manslaught]

Well, from what I remember, after Fallout 1, the Master's Army scattered and fled to north and east. Since Fallout 3 is around 115 years (I counted) after the defeat of the Master's Army in Fallout 2. Maybe a group managed to stay together and walked until they reached Washigton?

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Well, from what I remember, after Fallout 1, the Master's Army scattered and fled to north and east. Since Fallout 3 is around 115 years (I counted) after the defeat of the Master's Army in Fallout 2. Maybe a group managed to stay together and walked until they reached Washington?

We have had this conversation quite sometimes and the simple fact is that there are quite a number of hazards between the West Coast and the East Coast which could cost many mutants their lives during a transcontinental journey amongst which the radioactive twisters in the midwest.

A small group might be able to reach the East Coast but not an army in the numbers portrayed in Fallout 3.
The question would also be; why would they go there?

What can be found on the East Coast that can not be found anywhere else?
Definitely no new FEV, Mariposa and West Tek were the only sources and both are now gone, perhaps a few vials in the ruins of an old lab but nothing like the vats.

 

[Von Drunky]

The video is not all that clear. You get an idea that a super mutant is a huge greenish yellow thing with bulging muscles that underwent some serous deformation. Based on the concept art it seems to fit the description. The talking heads in FO looked goofy whereas the new ones look darker.

 

[UniversalWolf]

I don't see why Bethesda doesn't simply do away with the concept of supermutants and say that these creatures are orcs. The only people who would care are people whose opinions don't matter to the company.

Maybe FEV mutated again and now turns supermutants into orcs: a plausible enough excuse for the mindless rabble.

 

[Section8]

[late to the party]

Mutants: Do not want. I just can't shake the notion they've intentionally been made with the same sort of proportions as humans so they can use the same animations. Makes sense in a way, but it also gets rid of a lot of the charm and style of Fallout's Super Mutants and their very distinct comic-book pose. Mind you, does anyone else find it strange that none of the supermutant concepts have them wearing the plate armour that's so common in the screenshots?

Weapons: I'm sure the stupidity of the flame sword is well documented, but of all things, why a petrol tank, and not a propane cylinder? It still wouldn't fit Fallout, and the complete lack of petroleum products, but at least it would have been a bit more plausible from an engineering perspective.

But I digress. The rest look like something for a Half-Life mod. There's the suck-o-matic, which looks like a Gluon Gun (but functions like a Gravity Gun, go figure); the couple that look too high tech to be post-war, and too scrappy to be pre-war; and then the bug-juice thing, which doesn't seem to make much sense, but I could deal with if using "bug juice" was somehow tactical. I'm guessing poison spell.

Fashion: There's precious few elements that I actually like here. The merchant is too anime with the baseball hat, two pairs of googles and pockets like Devil May Cry's Dante has belts. Leather Girl is spot on, but the shrunken-headed raider with the tiny helmet has too many random metal/tech pieces. Calo Nord should stick to shitty Bioware games rather than trying on ladies' hats. The little guys are pretty goofy, but there are as many bits I like as don't like. Either way, it looks like we're playing dress-up again.

Vault Dwellers: Love the hairstyles, don't see why they felt the need to "innovate" the vault suits.

Industrial: This one is full of goodness. The vending machine is really good, as are the other assorted bits and pieces, though the Duck and Cover Booth is dumb, and the traffic light and parking meter completely overdone. Oh, and "Typotron"? Does everything in Fallout 3 really need its name appended with "-tron", "-matic", "-ator" or "Boy"?

Environmental: 1) The middle panel is too "City 17", the rest are needlessly complex. Fallout was never about a multitude of pipes and cables, yet they're fucking everywhere in this installment.

2) The statues are good, the globe too busy, the airliner tail baffling, and the "Blastproof Home" doesn't really fit the setting.

3) Mostly good, but again - fucking pipes!

Robots: Sputnik I is kind of cool, but a little obvious. The Shield Guardian needs a chimney instead of the coil on his back hump. Mr Handy would be cool if it wasn't supposed to be Mr Handy. The Brain Bot is another "innovation" we could have done without - it's close, but too much of a grim 70s/80s futuristic look to it, rather than a whimsical 1950's look. The war bot below is pure 70s/80s, and belongs in FOT, not Fallout.

Creatures: Of all the good things they could parrot from X-Com, they choose a fucking Lobsterman. Also, crab people, crab people. The deathclaw is close, but it needs longer arms, and bigger hands to lope along on, as well as smoother skin. The scorpion is overdone, and should be like a regular scorpion rather than the fucking predator. The brahmin looks like a Dire Brahmin, though the molerat and cockroach aren't bad. The tongue guy looks like he belongs in D&D 3E Monster Manual XIV: We Ran Out of Ideas IX Volumes Ago.

 

[Brother None]

The talking heads in FO looked goofy whereas the new ones look darker.

It's not even about goofy vs dark (though it can be). I can do dark with the anatomy of the old heads, if I wanted to.

It's about the fact that we have one style, Fallout's, and another, Return to Castle Wolfenstein and all recent mutants we've seen, including Fallout 3's.

If you honestly can't see that the mutants shown in the video/sprites/talking heads have different proportions than the supersoldiers from Return to Castle Wolfenstein and thus different than the Fallout 3 mutants (note we're not just talking about the concept art here, but the way they actually look, which doesn't fit all concepts in those sketches (see: this is why you're not supposed to focus on concept art this late in the dev cycle: it's stupid)), I can't help ya. If you're saying it doesn't matter, fine, but don't say it's not there.

 

[Autoduel76]

A small group might be able to reach the East Coast but not an army in the numbers portrayed in Fallout 3.
The question would also be; why would they go there?

What can be found on the East Coast that can not be found anywhere else?
Definitely no new FEV, Mariposa and West Tek were the only sources and both are now gone, perhaps a few vials in the ruins of an old lab but nothing like the vats.

Well, as long as Super Mutants are alive, the ability to create more exists.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Well, as long as Super Mutants are alive, the ability to create more exists.

And how would that be possible?
Super Mutants biting normal humans?

Remember, you can't extract FEV from Super Mutants and inject it into humans, you need to dip humans into large quantities.

To create more FEV you would need specialized laboratories, large supplies of chemicals and all information on FEV itself.
Barely any of the Super Mutants were technical capable, let alone have skills in biochemistry and virology.

 

[Autoduel76]

Well, as long as Super Mutants are alive, the ability to create more exists.

And how would that be possible?
Super Mutants biting normal humans?

Remember, you can't extract FEV from Super Mutants and inject it into humans, you need to dip humans into large quantities.

I don't recall anything in any of the experiment discs or logs that said extracting FEV and duplicating more wasn't possible.

The point is simply that FEV exists in the supermutants themselves. It hasn't been destroyed and, therefore, somebody getting their hands on it is not out of the realm of possibility. And not even far fetched, for the setting.

Furthermore, cloning existing supermutants, as their DNA has been changed, would also produce more supermutants.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

I don't recall anything in any of the experiment discs or logs that said extracting FEV and duplicating more wasn't possible.

I think it is mentioned somewhere, Ausir or one of the other people who often visits the Vault Wiki could probably answer that best.

Wait! I recall that somewhere in Fallout 1 it was mentioned that you couldn't 'catch' FEV, you needed to be injected with it.
I think ZAX at the Glow told the player this.

The point is simply that FEV exists in the supermutants themselves. It hasn't been destroyed and, therefore, somebody getting their hands on it is not out of the realm of possibility. And not even far fetched, for the setting.

The problem is, what is in Super Mutants is no longer the pure virus, it has already combined with their cells, at best injecting someone with blood samples of Super Mutants would cause some form of cancer as the altered cells try to replace the normal cells instead of FEV itself merging with the host's cells.

Trying to remove FEV from the cells would be almost impossible, the equipment for that goal barely exists anymore, plus the Super Mutants wouldn't know how to use it.

Furthermore, cloning existing supermutants, as their DNA has been changed, would also produce more supermutants.

Again, you would need a laboratory for that, and probably some kind of incubation cylinders.

 

[Brother None]

The point is simply that FEV exists in the supermutants themselves.

It does? What makes you say that?

Personally, I disagree with the stringent attitude that there could not be amounts of FEV on the west coast. If there's any amount, it can be duplicated, even if the amount is too low to produce supermutants to begin with.

 

[Autoduel76]

Again, you would need a laboratory for that, and probably some kind of incubation cylinders.

Well, you seem to be worried about the science of it, rather than the Science! of it.

FEV hasn't been destroyed.

Here's the Vault Wikis with the experiment disks, Maxon's, Vree's & richard Grey's logs. It doesn't say that you can't extract FEV from an infected subject.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Forced_Evolutionary_Virus


And, for cloning, again that kind of Science! is certainly possible by a select few in Fallout.

If you are saying that whoever is creating SuperMutants must have access to more knowledge and/or technology than is common in Fallout, well of course that's true. But, that is a given, that whoever the "ultimate threat" turns out to be is going to be more advanced than the rest of the wasteland common people. Just like it was with the Master in Fallout 1, or the Enclave in Fallout 2.

The point is simply that FEV exists in the supermutants themselves.

It does? What makes you say thatt?

Well, the fact that I never saw anything in any of those holodiscs or logs that said FEV mutants had none of the virus in them, I guess.

 

[terebikun]

Please stop comparing the new designs to cows and humans and instead compare them to the actual Super Mutants featured in Fallout 1 when trying to conjure up an argument.

So, I should not find a common basis of comparison for them? Since I've only seen the in-game sprites and the talking heads in Fallout 1 to use as a size reference, and the only text descriptions I remember just said they were really big. Now, I know a cow is pretty damn big, and that mutant has one strapped to his back. That tells me in my mind that the mutant is very, very large, possibly larger than I had imagined the original mutants (but then again, Brother None has pointed out that these are Behemoth designs, so I suppose they should be larger).

There's obvious difference between Super Mutants from FO/FO2 and those shitty orcs from FO3. The art direction is completely different, I don't know why some people are not able to see that... Rolling Eyes

I think we've already established that the new guys are Uruk-Hai, not orcs, although people can't seem to decide whether the old guys are Hulks or orcs that happen to not have jutting teeth (does it count that they strap up their lips so you can see their teeth anyways? maybe they're trying to compensate). Furthermore, my argument is that the art is different, but the art direction is not.

Funny, nobody managed to refute my point that I was talking about style, not setting, yet here you act as if I was proven wrong.

It doesn't work that way. Prove me wrong before acting smug.

One person mentioned that without any of the trappings of steampunk (boilers, pneumatic pumps, stuff that has to do with STEAM), that it doesn't look like steampunk. You basically said yes it does, and that was that. It's hard to disprove a point when you don't believe the point exists. There don't seem to be any elements of steampunk, therefore it doesn't look like steampunk. Is that okay?

and then the bug-juice thing, which doesn't seem to make much sense, but I could deal with if using "bug juice" was somehow tactical. I'm guessing poison spell.

Pretty sure there was a poison gun in the concept art for Van Buren. Food for thought.

 

[Temoid]

Correct me if I wrong, but the art is steampunk in style due to an overly large amount of utterly useless pipes, buttons, pockets and thingamajigs crammed everywhere. Steampunk tends to have that with gears and pistons.