New Fallout 3 screenshot and Todd Howard speaks

[Bernard Bumner]

I'm just concerned that Bethesda may be removing the real Fallout weapons from Fallout setting and replacing them with some other kinds of weapons just like they do with other things.

What counts as real in this context? Were the Fallout 2 weapons real?

There may be good reasons to redesign weapons, or to develop different weapons (these may have been made by a new and different faction, for instance).

Which returns to the original question: what's the point in buying the Fallout licence when they are making a FPS that is set in some other setting, that is a bit similar to the Fallout setting?

Well, you can also ask another question, what would be the point of buying the Fallout licence just to give the game a graphical update? (Well, okay, that is a semi-stupid question, because I would see a point to it, and I'd buy it in a heartbeat.)

If Bethesda decide to redesign the visuals, then it shouldn't be an absolute deal breaker. Stories can be retold and reimagined, to the point that they may exist, for instance, in print, on screen, and in games, in many different forms with different descriptions and visual representations of objects and characters, whilst still retaining fidelity to the source.

A few visual changes wouldn't be a problem, if the objects retained a sense of belonging in a Fallout game, and if the rest of the game was worthy of the title.

 

[Mord_Sith]

At any rate, weapon designs or not, one would expect some of the trademark weapons from former Fallouts to maintain a similar vein of look to bring back that feeling of nostalgia.

At least if they were trying to bring about old Fallout fans to the game, I would not argue with redesigns for the combat shotgun for example, heck, it would be neat if you could actually do modifications and whatnot to your weapons rather than just take two to make one.

As for the laser rifle, I'm not partial so much either way for that one, it doesn't look bad but at the same time, the barrel's not long enough for the focusing lenses to be properly aligned to anything stronger than a bright flashlight.

As I said before, I would like to see a re-design on the laser and plasma rifles, but this thing just doesn't take the cake for lil' old me, hopefully the powerfist stays the same, but it would also be kinda neat to see something a little clunkier, perhaps with steam vents on it puffing every so often...

Oh the dreams...

Anyhow, back to my point, without some of the more trademark weapons (Bozar, Gauss weapons, Plasma/Laser, Power Fist, Super Sledge, .223 special, and the starter pistol) of the fallout series things won't have the same feel, everyone likes new weapons, don't get me wrong, but without the trademark ones it will feel as though something is missing, or just the lack of being able to unload Bozar grade death...

 

[whirlingdervish]

Anyhow, back to my point, without some of the more trademark weapons (Bozar, Gauss weapons, Plasma/Laser, Power Fist, Super Sledge, .223 special, and the starter pistol) of the fallout series things won't have the same feel, everyone likes new weapons, don't get me wrong, but without the trademark ones it will feel as though something is missing, or just the lack of being able to unload Bozar grade death...

exactly.


a fallout sequel without some recognizeable original weapons like the powerfist and super sledge, would be like a quake sequel without a grenade launcher, or an xcom game without a blaster bomb.

 

[Black]

What counts as real in this context?

I think it's pretty obvious that this does.

Were the Fallout 2 weapons real?

Uh, in the game's world context- sure.

There may be good reasons to redesign weapons

I'd like to know why. What was so wrong with FO's laser rifle that it had to be replaced? Or redesigned? Did it not shot with laser beams?

Well, you can also ask another question, what would be the point of buying the Fallout licence just to give the game a graphical update?

They could start with improving game mechanics and then move on to improve art and design.
Instead they're replacing everything- tb to rt, iso to fpp/tpp, laser rifle to something weird-looking etc.

A few visual changes wouldn't be a problem, if the objects retained a sense of belonging in a Fallout game, and if the rest of the game was worthy of the title.

Ok, another example
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Leather_Jacket
Obviously I'm talking about Mad Max-ish lack of right sleeve.
Now it wouldn't be something huge if there weren't any jackets in F3 at all. Or re-designed. Because nowhere it says that jackets in FO world can't have right sleeve. But that's not the point. The point is, after two Fallouts with that kind of leath jacket it became Fallout-ish.
It's like the lack of right sleeve is the lack of long barrel in this new laser rifle.
You know, what they say- if it ain't broken, don't fix it.
And since there was nothing wrong with good ol' laser rifle, I can't think of any reason why would they change its design.

 

[Bernard Bumner]

I'd like to know why. What was so wrong with FO's laser rifle that it had to be replaced? Or redesigned? Did it not shot with laser beams?

I can't answer that, but earlier I suggested that perhaps the old design didn't function well in the first person perspective; perhaps the barrel was too long and foreshortening made it look insubstantial, or maybe it looked too similar to the sniper rifle?

I don't know of any reason to replace the original, but I'm also not worried about it being replaced with a good alternative.

They could start with improving game mechanics and then move on to improve art and design.
Instead they're replacing everything- tb to rt, iso to fpp/tpp, laser rifle to something weird-looking etc.

I have no doubt that Bethesda thinks they've made a very good job of improving the game mechanics, and can't see why the wholesale change is a stupid idea.

My point is that changing a laser rifle, for whatever reason, is a problem - if you consider it so - of entirely different magnitude to dispensing with turn based combat and the switch to first-person (along with the other developing potential problems of narrative, scripting, and consequential gameplay).

You know, what they say- if it ain't broken, don't fix it.
And since there was nothing wrong with good ol' laser rifle, I can't think of any reason why would they change its design.

I agree that change for the sake of change is odd, and could easily detract from the sense of a game being a sequel to Fallout, but it isn't necessarily so. Of course, any such changes have to limited so that all sense of the original isn't lost; they have to be balanced via the faithful reproduction of items like the Power Fist.

The weapons of Fallout 2 often feel inconsistent, in my opinion, compared to those of Fallout, but that doesn't stop the game being a very true sequel.

 

[Sorrow]

Which doesn't change the fact that lack of consistency in F2 is its flaw, not a good thing.

I'm just concerned that Bethesda may be removing the real Fallout weapons from Fallout setting and replacing them with some other kinds of weapons just like they do with other things.

What counts as real in this context?

Fallout 1 weapons, of course and those of Fallout 2 weapons that were original (Gauss weapons, Pulse weapons and err... that's it I think.). Fallout 2 weapons were designed by someone else than those of F1 and most of them were RL weapons instead of Fallout's fictional semi-realistic weapons.
I guess creating new fictional weapons of is too difficult for some people .

There may be good reasons to redesign weapons, or to develop different weapons (these may have been made by a new and different faction, for instance).

They could be, but I have yet to see any evidence of real Fallout weapons and armour being present in F3.

Which returns to the original question: what's the point in buying the Fallout licence when they are making a FPS that is set in some other setting, that is a bit similar to the Fallout setting?

Well, you can also ask another question, what would be the point of buying the Fallout licence just to give the game a graphical update?

How about exploring more of the world and more of the ethics of a post-nuclear world while keeping the setting consistent and true to the original?

If Bethesda decide to redesign the visuals, then it shouldn't be an absolute deal breaker.

In Fallout Craptics it was an absolute deal breaker.

If Bethesda decide to redesign the visuals, then it shouldn't be an absolute deal breaker. Stories can be retold and reimagined, to the point that they may exist, for instance, in print, on screen, and in games, in many different forms with different descriptions and visual representations of objects and characters, whilst still retaining fidelity to the source.

It's a contradiction - weapons can't get replaced/redesigned and retain fidelity to the source at the same time.

 

[Mord_Sith]

It's a contradiction - weapons can't get replaced/redesigned and retain fidelity to the source at the same time.

No but they can be altered slightly, as I said I never thought that the Plasma and Laser rifles fit with the rest of the FO 1 & 2 scheme of weaponry, rather expected ray weaponry and things like that for the 'high tech' idea.

As for the pistol, it would be great if you could take the original weapons, and customize them with parts from different guns for example, although it would be he(You know the rest) on wheels trying to find compatible parts for your gun it would also allow for some fluctuation in the original designs slightly.

For example the plasma rifle, I would expect it to me more of a launcher rather than a rifle when dealing with plasma if you ask me, a superheated tube and held off to the side like the flamethrower, launching blazing hot globs of plasma at your enemies.

The laser rifle, I don't think would have opened sides like that, it would add too much noise to the beam making it unstable and not likely to damage anything, however if you had focus prisms on the outside, taking in normal light, giving the gun a bit of a crystalline structure would work far better with a far shorter length, as it would take light in from all around without bleeding any out due to angling of the focus prisms towards the exit of the barrel, it would focus light inside and during the daytime the closing iris would probably start to glow, probably would be titanium or tungsten based alloy to soak up the heat but not burn through, at night you would have to rely solely on the battery, meaning that shooting at night would cost double the charge it would normally during the daytime for the same potency.

Again it would be neat if it had a crude liquid cooling system that vents down and back after firing, making the barrel about the size of a small fire extinguisher and pointing the base at someone while it vents some of it's gasses down to cool the barrel properly. However not looking like a bad piece of plumbing shooting out erratic arcing light...

Ah once again just dreamin' ...

 

[Brother None]

Did your dog die? You're a bit angsty these days BN.

Nah. But with every passing day I think more and more Sorrow is a troll designed to make us look bad. Someone like him is worth gold for Bethesda's PR.

I'm just concerned that Bethesda may be removing the real Fallout weapons from Fallout setting and replacing them with some other kinds of weapons just like they do with other things.

Why is that a concern? Fallout 1's weapon design wasn't perfect, it had a lot of weird things, inconsistencies and the tech weapons looked more steam-punk than retro-50's. It's an area of the game that leaves room for improvement. And while the power armor overhaul, the mini nuke launcher and Chinese assault rifles aren't upgrades, the laser rifle sure is.

Which returns to the original question: what's the point in buying the Fallout licence when they are making a FPS that is set in some other setting, that is a bit similar to the Fallout setting?

That's so off topic.

I guess creating new fictional weapons of is too difficult for some people

Isn't creating new fictional weapons just what Bethesda is doing?

 

[alexweiln]

Now, I must admit that I didn't see anything from Fallout 3's devolpment stages for far over two years or so (no net-access).
But yet seeing those screens is letting me lapse into a dark, deep brooding depression.
Asid from the fact, that the screens don't look that bad for an EGO-SHOOTER (yes, that what it looks), what's it *damn* really got to do with Fallout after all? I do remember well an old HL-mod called wasteland, that one was closer.
Can anyone explain me the value of an high armor class in FPS? Or the use of the 'S P E C I A L' system? What I wonder of is do I really need some CH or IN values to be set in that kinda game? I think not, all I really need's a handsome mouse and good reactions.
Fallout, in my opinion lived through its story and its athmosphere.
The different NPC's you could meet (even if they looked particularly quite the same).
Essencial were stats, through wich plenty of different Characters could make various different expiriences out of the game.
Skills, which had to be carefully developed to carve you character in a shape that it'd fit your likes or needs. Sorry, but I don't think I could actually *barter* or talk to that mutie over there on the second screen, let alone have some *conversation* with.
Action Points? I really don't get how to put these in there, really. So there won't be any need for agility either, won't it?
It's jost got nothing to do with Fallout anymore. Except for the bought name, I'm sorry to say.

So enough whining here, but still: that has to be said.
Alex

 

[Sorrow]

Why is that a concern? Fallout 1's weapon design wasn't perfect, it had a lot of weird things, inconsistencies and the tech weapons looked more steam-punk than retro-50's.

So? It only means that Fallout's style is a combination of styles, not only retro-50s. Following that way of thinking, Bethesda should throw out FEV (not in 50s style) and Laser and Plasma weapons (not 50s style too).

It's an area of the game that leaves room for improvement. And while the power armor overhaul, the mini nuke launcher and Chinese assault rifles aren't upgrades, the laser rifle sure is.

Your dislike for Fallout's weapon style doesn't mean that it's bad or needs changing. I definitely prefer Fallout-style Laser rifle to the bland RL one introduced by Bethesda.

Did your dog die? You're a bit angsty these days BN.

Nah. But with every passing day I think more and more Sorrow is a troll designed to make us look bad. Someone like him is worth gold for Bethesda's PR.

With each passing day I think that you care more about what Bethesda thinks of you than about Fallout.

 

[Mord_Sith]

Gentlemen please, be civil, or at the very least let me get my camcorder, I could make a fortune on this if I sold tickets...


Anyhow, let's all just take a bit of a cool down, or a shot of your favorite liquor, as I am about to do, and relax shall we?

 

[Brother None]

So? It only means that Fallout's style is a combination of styles, not only retro-50s. Following that way of thinking, Bethesda should throw out FEV (not in 50s style) and Laser and Plasma weapons (not 50s style too).

The laser and plasma weapon concepts are both very 50's, but the design isn't, Chris admitted as much himself (about the design not being very good).

FEV has always been a weird kind of explain all, but it works within the framework of Science! Nothing wrong with a Fallout game that would leave it out either, though it's been central to all plots so far (it doesn't make sense that it'd be central to the plot of a Fallout that's completely somewhere else, like Fallout 3)

Your dislike for Fallout's weapon style doesn't mean that it's bad or needs changing.

That's true.

However, I think there's a difference between this redesign and, say, the vault suit overhaul. Where the vault suit has a set lore and it's kind of weird to suddenly change something that was previously of uniform design, it's odd to say there can be only one type of any weapon. If this laser weapon were called the Wattz 2000 Laser Rifle, I would certainly have a problem with here, but there's no reason to think that Wattz was the only producer of laser weaponry, let alone that they only made one kind.

This weapon hardly qualifies as "real life", so it doesn't really relate to Fallout's avoidance of those. Rather, it qualifies in the framework of 50's fiction, and with that it fits. It's different, but it fits. What's wrong with that? Nothing.

With each passing day I think that you care more about what Bethesda thinks of you than about Fallout.

Heh. You should tell Pete that, he'd have a laugh-and-a-half.

That said, do you understand how your attitude is the worst thing to happen to trying to spread our opinion to others? Our purpose isn't just to sit around and feel superior in one big happy circle-jerk, our purpose has always been to convert people to Fallout's way of thinking.

Compare it to Christianity. A calm, ok dude can convince people "hey, these guys are alright, maybe they got a point." You? You're the crazy naked bum shouting "praise Jesus" on the town square.

 

[Mord_Sith]

Where's my camcorder, ACK was it over here, nope, maybe under that stack of paper, dagnabbit where did I put that blasted thing...


BN why couldn't you wait until I had the camcorder?

 

[Sorrow]

The laser and plasma weapon concepts are both very 50's,

I've never encountered Laser or Plasma weapons in 50s Sci-Fi. There were rather more naive weapons, like Atomic Blasters or Needlerays.

but the design isn't, Chris admitted as much himself (about the design not being very good).

He said it? I'm quite surprised - as I said before, Fallout's weapons are my favourite ones, both in style and descriptions.

FEV has always been a weird kind of explain all, but it works within the framework of Science! Nothing wrong with a Fallout game that would leave it out either, though it's been central to all plots so far (it doesn't make sense that it'd be central to the plot of a Fallout that's completely somewhere else, like Fallout 3)

Personally, I find the FEV (and supermutants and BoS) a bit tiring - it would be nice to see something as fresh and interesting as FEV, supermutants and BoS were to Fallout1.

That's true.

However, I think there's a difference between this redesign and, say, the vault suit overhaul. Where the vault suit has a set lore and it's kind of weird to suddenly change something that was previously of uniform design, it's odd to say there can be only one type of any weapon.

Well, I have nothing against adding a new laser rifle, even if it looks like a bit bland.
What I dislike is that I see a complete redesign of everything - starting with vault suits and mutants and ending with guns and armour (similarly, the power armour would probably be tolerable if they would simply give BoS paladins the original PA and this one would be an earlier model used by other faction.)
I haven't seen any weapon from the original Fallout yet. I've seen an AK-47 clone, something that looks like M1903 Springfield, but no Fallout weapons. That's why I said that it's too bad that they didn't get inspired by the Fallout Laser Rifle.

 

[UniversalWolf]

I prefer isometric, turn-based, role-playing games to first-person shooters.

I will not buy this game.

 

[eLZhi]

I love Fallout. I love first person shooters.

I love drinking. I love driving.

Should I mix the two?

Exactly.

Fuck you, Bethesda.

 

[kyle]

well ... its some kind of an improvement i i think
but one thing needs to be answered: did people in 50s know infrared is invisible ? o_O

 

[Simeon]

germany had a nightvision tank in WW2, so I'd say yes.
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/ww2-general/wwii-infrared-7801.html

 

[analord]

I think this forum needs to settle down. One screen shot and the whole site is in uproar. They haven't even ruined any of the good parts yet.

 

[Moving Target]

Sure they have.

No Action Points. Nuff said.