[New York Times, 8 minutes ago] WAR!

lol, wow, one person actually got it right, well, at least similar to how I view the situation.

This is a show for Kim Jr. and it was probably orchestrated by Kim Sr. in one way shape of form. This was done to prop up prince Jr. image and reconsolidate the power behind the third prince's rule. As deification is part of their educational process, I am sure there will be songs, dances by children about Kim Jr.'s "victory" over the corrupted South Koreans. I am sure there are a lot of busy bodies trying to jockey for the new king's favor.

Hm...., I wonder if this has anything to do with the current corruption scandal involving the South Koreans in TKD. South Koreans usually don't fire back to retaliate against the North's provocation. Could they also be using this incident to consolidate national unity?
 
Thats the only way how they can keep the power anyway. In NK the revolution never stoped. They are keept constant on their toes. Since the time when the war stoped (or to be more accurate they simply stoped shooting) what ever if the population beliefs that now or not but they gouvernement does act all the time like the invasion of NK by the evil west could start tomorrow. Fear is a powerfull political tool I guess.

Black Feather said:
Japan? Would be awfully ironic.
Japan ? Must be a joke. If there is someone the N Koreans disslike more then the US it would be the Japs. I mean yeah ... that would be like Germany occuping Poland. No wait. :P

Alphadrop said:
Globalisation makes it pretty hard to start a war with people you sell things to as business makes a lot more money than war.
Precisely. But that line goes both ways. Germany gets more then 60 or even 80% of its gas from Russia which is one of the sources for heating.
 
Thomas de Aynesworth said:
I'm not even taking into account direct or indirect Chinese action. They've been grinding their axes against the US for several years now. A war in the peninsula would be a good reason to irrevocably wound the frail US economy.

Why in the name of Inlè would China want to wound the US economy?
 
Yeah that would be very stupid on China's part. You obviously know nothing about the political/economic/military climate of the world do you?
 
Brother None said:
Why in the name of Inlè would China want to wound the US economy?

This was originally posted in 2005 by one "General Chi Haotian"

"Therefore, solving the 'issue of America' is the key to solving all other issues.

First, this makes it possible for us to have many people migrate there and even establish another China under the same leadership of the CCP.

America was originally discovered by the ancestors of the yellow race, but Columbus gave credit to the White race.

We the descendants of the Chinese nation are ENTITLED to the possession of the land! It is historical destiny that China and United States will come into unavoidable confrontation on a narrow path and fight.

In the long run, the relationship of China and the United States is one of a life-and-death struggle. Of course, right now it is not the time to openly break up with them yet. Our reform and opening to the outside world still rely on their capital and technology. We still need America. Therefore, we must do everything we can to promote our relationship with America, learn from America in all aspects and use America as an example to reconstruct our country.

Only by using special means to 'clean up' America will we be able to lead the Chinese people there.

Only by using indirectly destructive weapons that can kill many people will we be able to reserve America for ourselves."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/43835480/China-Defense-Minister-Speech-on-USA-Extermination

Personally I wouldn't bat an eyelash.
 
^Hmm remember reading something about pigment specific biological weapons, posted on DAC years ago....kinda scary as it's plausible.

Military strength wise they would get rolled. The main issue would be the retarded amount of artillery they have pointed at SK and the civilian causalities they could cause in the process.

Bingo. Of course NK would get merked, anyone who thinks otherwise
needs to lay off the crack. Seoul would also get merked though, which is one of the problems.

but is it willing to lose Seoul to an atomic strike..

Bah, the whole NK atomic weapons thing isn't really the issue. It's just a rather far gone form of saber rattling. I mean it's possible that they could fire a warhead through artillery into SK I guess, though I can't help feeling their primary tactic is mass conventional shelling of the SK border region, and in all fairness that's not a bad tactic in terms of a deterrent, as they do have a LOT of artillery pieces aimed that way.

and their infrastructure is a lot more refined than some are trying to point out.

It really isn't.

Thomas de Aynesworth

Is off his head.

I doubt anything will come of this, now or ever. Their economic situation is just going to get proggresively more and more FUBAR, China will get more and more pissed with them etc. until no one actually cares anymore. I hope so anyway, there have been far too many entirely pointless wars in the last hundred years.

None of this matters, we have obligations to fulfill in Afghanistan and this little event will blow over.

Like what? You don't seriously believe that any kind of democratic state established there, will actually sustain itself for any amount of time after US troops bugger off? Or are we talking oil pipelines?
 
You suggest (1) that the speech is a hoax. This is entirely possible, althoughclose analysis tends in another direction.

Cool story, bro. That thing is so obviously fake as to be a joke. The author's argument that "if it were a fake it'd be more convincing" is funny, too. Not to mention the author is Jeff Nyquist, a raving lunatic who thinks the cold war is ongoing and just has an axe to grind on that topic. The fact that you link to that as if it's actual proof of anything is pretty funny, it's conspiracy-level ravings at best.

Even if it isn't a hoax I rarely pay attention to the bland rhetoric that tends to come from non-democratic countries, or even some democratic countries. Actions speak louder than words. The actions being that China has enormous amounts of FDI in the US, a major player in propping up failing economies during the crisis, and while it will most definitely serve its own interest before the US' (see valuta wars), that's not the same thing as acting counter to another country's interests when it hurts your own interests.

No one says China loves the US, but China has shown itself to be a rational player on the international political stage for some time now. As such, it knows as well as anyone that it overtaking the US as the first economy and world's biggest superpower is just a matter of staying on the course they are now. China is way, way too overinvested in the US economy to make it a feasible short-term plan tough.
 
^ It's a funny one and my view of it's probably limited by my lack of economic nous. China looks pretty certain to become the global economic pack leader within, say 25 years max, whilst the US economy seems to be living on borrowed time to a degree, albeit borrowed time which the rest of the world has no means to cash in. Like you say, China is heavily investing in the US. I'm guessing China wants to avoid a US economic meltdown in the long run, essentially buying the military industrial complex that is Uncle Sam out, in order to gain political clout and military immunity there. It just seems a very risky strategy though, I can't help feeling US economics could still go very tits up at some point, in this case the more China invests the more it will hurt them to surely? Are they simply prepared to take that risk? Or am I just ignorant/pessimistic? Or is the entire concept or risk an illusion if you can see the strings that control the system clearly enough? These are the questions that plague me, as I feel the answers will go a long way in defining this so-far-shite century.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Black Feather said:
Japan? Would be awfully ironic.
Japan ? Must be a joke. If there is someone the N Koreans disslike more then the US it would be the Japs. I mean yeah ... that would be like Germany occuping Poland. No wait. :P

Yeah, i was joking. Japan messed up Korea (and China, for that matter...) in the first place. But they don't admit it.

And yeah, that Chi Haotian thing reminds me of the Tanaka Memorial. Or the Protocol of Zion.
 
China will get massive issues in the next few decades. They will face worse problems then Europe on that matter. Particularly cause of the politics regarding families they had for the last years. A very aging nation if you want so. The numbers of new born children in most european nations is already quite low. But at least we had not restrictions on how much children should be born in the past. China is growing ... and growing and growing. But they are yet not a industrial super power and the things they do now will pay them a lot in the future. China together with India wants to build some aditional 800 coal burning power plants in the next 20 years or so not sure if the number sare acurate heard them in a documentation about the last clima conference but it would not surprise me but they also mentioned that already now China is probably the bigest taker of australian coal as their own resources will not last for the need of its economy. Particularly as they dont have enough of it.

If china doesnt regulate its own growing it will face some issues soon enough from the polution. And I am not talking about it to blame it for our worlds polution, they will definetly be the first to feel it anyway.

Black Feather said:
Yeah, i was joking. Japan messed up Korea (and China, for that matter...) in the first place. But they don't admit it.
Yeah ... they have been kinda the nazis of asia if you want so. Back then of course. And it's pretty much as much as I like japan one of the things that I think they do pretty bad how they treat their own history regarding that time. I mean they do admit a lot of things but on the other side they dont care about it really. It doesnt seem to create the same feelings or echo like letz say nationalsozialism over here in Germany.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Yeah ... they have been kinda the nazis of asia if you want so. Back then of course. And it's pretty much as much as I like japan one of the things that I think they do pretty bad how they treat their own history regarding that time. I mean they do admit a lot of things but on the other side they dont care about it really. It doesnt seem to create the same feelings or echo like letz say nationalsozialism over here in Germany.

I don't want to go off topic here, but still -

http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/page1.html

Pretty graphic stuff, don't click if you're offended by it. But its sad that very few know about this and its just absolutely disgusting that the Japanese don't acknowledge this.
 
Dunno if this has been posted again. But tadaa. Palin has joined in with her indepth views on the situation.

http://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/sarah-palin-confuses-whos-on-our-side-in-northsouth-korea/

As for who does the most damage. Depends on who strikes first. If the north koreans let of another strike then they can do alot of damage. If the south koreans go in with their own airforce supplemented with american bomber support I doubt that much of that korean artiliriy will exist to do retaliation bombing by the time the operation is over.
 
Loxley said:
http://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/sarah-palin-confuses-whos-on-our-side-in-northsouth-korea/



That article and especially those cringe-inducing comments.
 
Loxley said:
As for who does the most damage. Depends on who strikes first. If the north koreans let of another strike then they can do alot of damage. If the south koreans go in with their own airforce supplemented with american bomber support I doubt that much of that korean artiliriy will exist to do retaliation bombing by the time the operation is over.


Actually, that is the issue. No one with a rational grip on North Koreas military power can honestly argue that they would not get roflstomped in a few short weeks of a full fledged military engagement. The fact of the matter is however that North Korea has such an absurd amount of artillery pointing towards the south that even with a massive air and naval campaign against all the targets we know about, they could still obliterate Seoul several times over.

They may be using outdated and faulty equipment but that hardly matters when your goal is to simply shell a civilian populace and induce massive destruction, artillery from decades ago still functions quite well in that regard.
 
Bal-Sagoth said:
They may be using outdated and faulty equipment but that hardly matters when your goal is to simply shell a civilian populace and induce massive destruction, artillery from decades ago still functions quite well in that regard.

What's the chance they accidently nuke themselves?
 
Alphadrop said:
What's the chance they accidently nuke themselves?

Intel from China and maybe a joint sino-american trip to N.Korea nuke depot and some tampering?

I don't know what the fuck the north is thinking but they deserve to be roflstomped. Both china and vietnam are communist but they were smart enough to get with the program of copying the west. If N.Korea wants to act like a baby I say fuckem.
 
Crni Vuk said:
China is as communistic like Russia democratic.

You know what I mean though. Both China and vietnam are "communist", nations that have woken up and realise they need to change. The old ways simply do not work in the 21st century. Thats why China is so ruthless, no different than a young emerging industrial power like Britain and the United States. have they done some unscrupulous things? Of course they did. But in order to rule through peace/retarding your own citizens, you need to have the economic power to feed them endless goods/food/entertainment.

Some countries like N.Korea can't get with the program and resort to being a baby to get what it wants. I have no idea why anyone would assist them with a nucelar program. I could say the same for India, Pakistan, Israel, etc.
 
Korean Conundrum: Is There a Way Out?

Latest incident a provocation – but by whom?
by Justin Raimondo, November 24, 2010

Initial reports were unequivocal: those crazy North Koreans had once again broken the longstanding ceasefire and attacked the South, this time at Yeonpyeong Island, shelling civilian quarters, and killing two South Korean marines. A few hours later, however, a more nuanced story came out: it seems the South Koreans were conducting military “exercises” near the disputed island, which North Korea claims as its territory, and South Korean ships had opened fire, albeit – they claim – not in the direction of the North Korean mainland. The North Koreans responded by taking it up a few notches, as is their wont, and opening fire on Yeonpyeong.

Yet the headlines in the Western media belied such subtleties: “World Condemns Deadly N. Korean Artillery Attack,” blared CNN, while the War Street Journal declared “US Envoy: N. Korea Initiated Artillery Exchange With S. Korea,” and ABC News dutifully reported President Obama’s “outrage” over the attack. The smoke had barely cleared above Yeonpyeong before Western analysts were coming out with various “explanations” for what was characterized as a burst of unprovoked North Korean “aggression”:

* The tenuous nature of the North Korean succession, which will install Kim Jong-il’s young son, Jim Jong Un, as the absolute ruler of the Hermit Kingdom.

* North Korea’s “desperation” and the regime’s nature as an inveterate “aggressor,” according to the Huffington Post.

* The influence of anonymous “military hard-liners,” who are eager to preserve their own power and maintain North Korea’s “military first” policy.

Yet a simpler explanation is readily apparent: the military exercises, code-named “Hoguk,” involving all four branches of the South Korean armed forces and some 70,000 troops, simulated an attack on North Korea, and were meant to provoke the North Koreans, who responded as might be expected. US troops were supposed to have participated in the exercises, but apparently the Americans thought better of it and pulled back at the last moment – perhaps because they knew a provocation was in the making. (These exercises, by the way, have been bad news for the South Koreans from the beginning, causing a series of accidents and killing six so far, not including the two marines killed on Yeonpyeong.)

Simplicity, however, is not the goal of Western analysts and their South Korean echo chamber: the New York Times dutifully ran a summary of the Western consensus view, aptly titled “From the North, a Pattern of Aggression,” which ascribes the usual succession fears and “insecurities” among the North Korean leadership as the motivation for the attack, and lists a whole series of incidents which are assumed to be similar “provocations.” Chief among these is the sinking of the Cheonan, a South Korean warship, which the local authorities and the US both accuse the North Koreans of. Yet there is a continuing dispute within South Korea over how the Cheonan was sunk, as the Los Angeles Times reports:

“’I couldn’t find the slightest sign of an explosion,’ said Shin Sang-chul, a former shipbuilding executive-turned-investigative journalist. ‘The sailors drowned to death. Their bodies were clean. We didn’t even find dead fish in the sea.’

“Shin, who was appointed to the joint investigative panel by the opposition Democratic Party, inspected the damaged ship with other experts April 30. He was removed from the panel shortly afterward, he says, because he had voiced a contrary opinion: that the Cheonan hit ground in the shallow water off the Korean peninsula and then damaged its hull trying to get off a reef.

“‘It was the equivalent of a simple traffic accident at sea,’ Shin said.

“The Defense Ministry said in a statement that Shin was removed because of ‘limited expertise, a lack of objectivity and scientific logic,’ and that he was ‘intentionally creating public mistrust’ in the investigation.”

Initial reports by the South Koreans stressed “no indication of North Korean involvement,” but they later changed their tune. While the official US-South Korea commission ended up accusing the North Koreans of launching a torpedo from a submarine that had gone undetected – itself an unlikely happenstance – several independent investigations conducted by US scientists contradicted the official report. But of course we didn’t hear much about those independent investigations in the lamestream media.

We also don’t hear much about the historical significance of Yeonpyeong Island, which has witnessed two previous confrontations between the North and the South, one in 1999 and another in 2002. The area has been a bone of contention between the two sides because the armistice, which drew a line of demarcation on land, failed to extend it to this maritime area: the US commander simply drew a line unilaterally, which the North Koreans later rejected.

For the South Koreans to conduct military exercises in this explosive region, never mind firing off rounds, is nothing but a naked provocation of the sort the West routinely ascribes to Pyongyang. In the context of North Korea’s recent revelation that it is increasing its nuclear capacity, the South Korean military maneuvers were meant to elicit a violent response – and succeeded in doing so.

The South Korean provocation is hardly surprising, however, as the administration of right-wing President Lee Myung-Bak has sought to elevate the two prior battles over the island – previously thought of as defeats for the South Koreans – as “victories” to be celebrated nationwide. This kind of thing is, for him, a welcome diversion. Myung-Bak’s presidency has been roiled by massive protests, charges of corruption, and the suspicion that he drove his predecessor to suicide. He’s been called “Korea’s Reagan,” but in reality his economic proposals have been statist boondoggles: massive public works programs that require lots of government subsidies, with corporate “partners” reaping the benefits while taxpayers pay the costs.

In contrast to his predecessor, Lee has taken a hard line toward the North: all aid to the North was cut off after the sinking of the Cheonan, and the nascent financial links between the two Koreas have been severed. We’ve come a long way from the days when Korean reunification seemed like a real possibility.

It seems like a hundred rather than ten years ago that the two Koreas were on the verge of an historic reconciliation. The leaders of a divided nation met for the first time in half a century, and many analysts were confident that Communist leader Kim Jong-il had decided North Korea must avoid complete economic collapse by opting for a “soft landing.” For a while, it looked like the “sunshine policy” of South Korean president Kim Dae-jung was going to succeed in preventing a catastrophic collapse of the Communist regime, a flood of refugees, or even the outbreak of war. The US, however, put the kibosh on that hopeful scenario. That didn’t stop the South Koreans, however: over US opposition, Dae-jung’s heir pursued the sunshine policy with even more vigor, traveling to North Korea and stepping over the physical border – but it was not to be. The liberal ascendancy in South Korean politics was ended, in 2008, by the election of President Lee Myung Bak, whose first act was to abolish the government department set up to facilitate national unification.

The chief obstacle to peace in the Korean peninsula hasn’t been North Korean intransigence, or South Korea’s enmity, but the intervention of the superpowers – China and the US. China, for its part, has been handed the role of North Korea’s duenna, managing its troublesome charge for the convenience of the Western powers. But Beijing has no interest in a reunified Korea, which would pose a threat to its own regional interests and hegemony. And the US has consistently opposed the “sunshine policy,” standing in the way at every turn, insisting on occupying the country with thousands of US troops who are generally resented. Our intervention in Korea is a relic of the cold war, one we seem unwilling to give up.

There is but one solution to the Korean conundrum: the complete withdrawal of US troops, who are being held hostage, in any event, by the prospect of a North Korean nuclear strike. Do we really want to sacrifice some 20,000 American soldiers on the altar of our cold war prerogatives?

Without US interference, the two Koreas would have reunified long ago: we have created an untenable situation which threatens to lunge out of our control at any moment. What is needed is a restoration of the “sunshine policy,” a negotiated end to the Korean war – no, we never signed a peace treaty! – and the withdrawal of US forces. Then and only then will peace blossom on the Korean peninsula.

NOTES IN THE MARGIN

Of course, if some people have their way, peace will never blossom anywhere: people like the evil nerd Glenn Reynolds, who claims to be a “libertarian” and yet can casually write: “I say nuke ‘em!” Genocide is so easy for some people to enthuse over – especially while sitting thousands of miles away in front of a keyboard! “They’ve caused enough trouble,” he babbles, “and it would be a useful lesson for Iran, too.” Why is it always the pencil-necked geeks who turn out to be the most vicious potential mass murderers?

Source.
 
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