NFL 2009

[Cimmerian Nights]

There's no good reason why someone who made it as a college coach can't make it as a pro coach.
However, there's a simple reason why most don't: the game is played at a higher level. When you step up the level of quality required, more people are going to drop off. It shouldn't surprise anyone that most college coaches can't hack it in the pros.

I don't think there's any less pressure at the elite level NCAA teams like Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Notre Dame compared to the ass end of the NFL in the Lions, Rams and Jaguars.

It takes an entirely different skill set to succeed in these two arenas. Jimmy Johnson and Bill Walsh are one-of-a-kind guys.

Especially because a big college skill(recruitment) is largely useless in the NFL.

So isn't the rah-rah motiovational shit.

But as a person - everything I know of his tenure at USC smacks of terrible as a person.

I wouldn't even go there. To succeed at that high a level, you're going to have to make some ruthless decisions. That's just the nature of the beast.
I'm no Pete Carrol fan either, but I wouldn't fault him for that.

What?
You abuse players physically, you're out of the game as a coach. These programs have no choice once something like that comes out, and even if it doesn't come out I'd applaud them for doing that.
Football coaching in itself is a form of abuse.

Allegedly. There's a whole nother side to these stories that evidently you don't know about. Besdies which, even a serial killer is entitled to due process.
Some suspect timing too as these guys were due millions from the school. Leach was fired the day before he was due a $8M bonus.
Go read about some of the facts, they are pretty interesting. The alleged victim of Leavit denies the accusations, and check out the closet they "confined" James in.
Never said these guys were angels, but they don't deserve to be railroaded like they are.

If kids are being abused why haven't these institutions of higher learning that the parents have entrusted them with called the cops? Why call the cops when your daddy works for ESPN and can have the coach crucified in the court of public opinion?

This is about money, not protecting kids' best interests. Welcome to NCAA football!

Meh, adrenaline fueled back slapping. Not to take anything away from Rodgers, kid's phenomenal. But I'd be careful throwing Drew Brees' name around like that when you're on your way into his building next week.

It isn't just adrenaline-fueled backslapping, you don't ever hear that kind of praise for an opponent, and there are plenty of other adrenaline-fueled moments for such praise to come out in a season.

They're great big stroke jobs like that everyweek if you watch the post-game press conferences. When somebody makes your defense look that, you either take it on the chin if you lose "we didn't execute...", or hype the guy up if you win. Pretty standard protocol.

 

[Sander]

I don't think there's any less pressure at the elite level NCAA teams like Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Notre Dame compared to the ass end of the NFL in the Lions, Rams and Jaguars.

I think you're selling the Jags short there.
Anyway, there may not be a difference in pressure, but there's definitely a difference in quality. The players are better on both sides of the ball (mostly on the opponent's side, though, given the fact that big-name college coaches coach big talent at the college level), and that takes away a lot of stuff that works easily at the college level. You need to be a better coach to succeed at the NFL level than at the college level.

I wouldn't even go there. To succeed at that high a level, you're going to have to make some ruthless decisions. That's just the nature of the beast.
I'm no Pete Carrol fan either, but I wouldn't fault him for that.

I'm not talking about ruthless decisions but all the NCAA violations, the supposed criminal connections, paying players to come play for USC. That doesn't sound like a great person.
Some of that stuff may not be true, I'd be very surprised if none of it's true.

I'm just saying, though, his demeanor probably says very little about him as a person.

Allegedly. There's a whole nother side to these stories that evidently you don't know about. Besdies which, even a serial killer is entitled to due process.
Some suspect timing too as these guys were due millions from the school. Leach was fired the day before he was due a $8M bonus.
Go read about some of the facts, they are pretty interesting. The alleged victim of Leavit denies the accusations, and check out the closet they "confined" James in.

Whoa, hold on there. The kid who denied what Leavitt did later claimed that he only said that to protect his coach and has confirmed the story. An assistant-coach with Leavitt, who's been working there for years, confirmed the story in part (but reducing the seriousness of striking, saying Leavitt struck him in the chest and grabbed him by the chin).
With Leach it's even worse, and yes I saw the video of his lawyer touring the press-room and the garage. Oh, sure, they didn't lock him in a closet. So? They isolated and punished a player who was not medically fit to practice, for not practicing. That's ridiculous and is definitely something someone can get fired for. Worse, there was no place to sit in that garage. Why would anyone even lock up a player in the first player? Why not keep him on the sidelines? Or let him go home?

Regardless of whether or not there are other concerns, and there always are, striking a player and locking someone up because he refuses to play with a concussion is inexcusable.

great big stroke jobs like that everyweek if you watch the post-game press conferences. When somebody makes your defense look that, you either take it on the chin if you lose "we didn't execute...", or hype the guy up if you win. Pretty standard protocol.

I haven't seen anything this year coming close to it.

 

[Brother None]

They're great big stroke jobs like that everyweek if you watch the post-game press conferences. When somebody makes your defense look that, you either take it on the chin if you lose "we didn't execute...", or hype the guy up if you win. Pretty standard protocol.

Hah. I love you, Cimm. I don't know anyone who steadily pisses in people's cereal with such abandon and regularity as you do.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

You need to be a better coach to succeed at the NFL level than at the college level.

You need to be a different kind of coach at each level.

I'm not talking about ruthless decisions but all the NCAA violations, the supposed criminal connections, paying players to come play for USC. That doesn't sound like a great person.
Some of that stuff may not be true, I'd be very surprised if none of it's true.

I'm just saying, though, his demeanor probably says very little about him as a person.

This is standard operating procedure in the NCAAs. I don't know that it says anything at all about him personally. I'm saying I saw the guy work and live here for a couple years, and while I'd fault him for many things, I wouldn't take shots at him personally. I know of only one person who has, and that was Charlie Wies, and that was more him being a sore-loser than anything else.

Regardless of whether or not there are other concerns, and there always are, striking a player and locking someone up because he refuses to play with a concussion is inexcusable.

These schools knew these guys weren't angels and they got into bed with them anyway, now they just need a public justification to fire them.

Football coaching in and of itself is controlled abuse.
Go do two a days in Hell Week and come back and talk to me about abuse.

These 2 guys are psychotic assholes, but they deserve some form of due process, and I think you'll be surprised when a court finds they deserve what they have coming to them momentarily.

 

[UniversalWolf]

Coaching is one of those professions that attracts a certain percentage of people who get a little too much enjoyment out of exercising power over others.

San Francisco and Denver in London next year. Not a game I care about much, but not a horrible matchup.

 

[Sander]

Coaching is one of those professions that attracts a certain percentage of people who get a little too much enjoyment out of exercising power over others.

San Francisco and Denver in London next year. Not a game I care about much, but not a horrible matchup.

I'm going to wait for the other matchup to be announced, as there's probably going to be another London game, but I'm almost definitely going to one of those two games again.
I'd expect Niners - Broncos to be a decent game, though. Niners look like they're going to be good next year, and Broncos should be about average if not better.

 

[UniversalWolf]

Niners look like they're going to be good next year, and Broncos should be about average if not better.

I think the Niners should be somewhat better next year, but I'm not so sure about the Broncos. One of the most entertaining stories from this already highly-entertaining post-regular-season is the McDaniels hatred by the fans in Denver. Despite his quick start he either can't get along with his players or he's purging the team of everyone associated with Shannahan. Either way that team is on the downslope. The disaster everyone predicted for this year may actually come about next year. Actually it already started with the 2-8 finish.

I would wait and see what the other London game turns out to be. You could probably narrow down the possibilities by looking at a 2010 schedule. The two teams have to share a bye week after the London game and can't be in the same division, and probably not in the same conference.

 

[Sander]

I think the Niners should be somewhat better next year, but I'm not so sure about the Broncos. One of the most entertaining stories from this already highly-entertaining post-regular-season is the McDaniels hatred by the fans in Denver. Despite his quick start he either can't get along with his players or he's purging the team of everyone associated with Shannahan. Either way that team is on the downslope. The disaster everyone predicted for this year may actually come about next year. Actually it already started with the 2-8 finish.

They have plenty of talent, though they might be in some trouble if Marshall leaves.

I would wait and see what the other London game turns out to be. You could probably narrow down the possibilities by looking at a 2010 schedule. The two teams have to share a bye week after the London game and can't be in the same division, and probably not in the same conference.

I'll just wait for the announcement. They're going to try to get a game that at least looks competitive, so it shouldn't be Lions - Browns or anything like that.

Also, holy shit that was an awesome first half, and a boring second half.
At least I got the Saints blowing out the Cards right.

EDIT:
Man, Ravens just kill themselves. Costly penalties at horrible moments. Reed gets a pick, then gets the ball knocked out on his return. Pass Interference wipes away his other pick, though it's probably never a pick if the Pass Interference doesn't happen. And then Ray Rice gets the ball knocked out of his hands. Such a shame for the game, too.
But best unit of the game: Colts defense. Rice wasn't getting anything done, and Flacco wasn't completing much either.
Also, this game should finally put the 'Manning choker' and 'They never win when they rest!' bullshit to bed. Colts dominated the Ravens basically, Manning played up to the level of his regular season performance, and they won.
Looking forward to Colts - Saints Super Bowl.

 

[Brother None]

Yeah, easy win for the Colts. Boring, good thing I tuned out after the first half.

Don't worry, Sander, people like Cimm will just insist this is yet another fluke and that the Ravens like the Bears suck so much that it doesn't count.

But seriously, I'd still like Chargers-Cowboys in the Superbowl over Colts-Saints. Colts probably got the weakest playoff team, Saints do look good. Wonder if the Chargers can keep their momentum, but Bwoys do look hot.

Eh. There's always so many myths, and they won't bury that easily. Resting the starters is just an extension of the whole "momentum" myth, which is certifiably bullshit, as we've seen several teams who had no momentum at the end of the season hit the Superbowl (how about last year? Cards were 2-4 over the last 6 weeks, Steelers won 2 close games, lost one to the Titans and then trounced the Browns, neither team had "momentum" going into the playofs), it's about getting momentum in the playoffs themselves.

But people won't forget myths that easily. Same for the choker tag. Once you have it, it's hard to get rid of. It's funny when coaches have reputations for choking in the playoffs, and people just ignore that for this, you have to get to the playoffs first, and plenty of coaches can't even do that. Same for QBs.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Also, this game should finally put the 'Manning choker' and 'They never win when they rest!' bullshit to bed. Colts dominated the Ravens basically, Manning played up to the level of his regular season performance, and they won.

I'm surprised you have so little regard for the Chargers, you act like they already lost. They could send the Colts packing for the 3rd straight year. So if you want to call beating a way outmatched #8 seed after one month of rest not choking, well it doesn't bolster things the either way. It doesn't say much of anything really.

Same with this 'rest them' talk. Polian didn't need to win or lose to validate that he made the decisions that put his team in the best position to win. This will never go away because the media needs stories.

Besides which, if by some miracle the Jets do win, you'll get this conversation all over again with more intensity. Who cares - resting works for some teams in some situations ('49ers dynasty) it fails for others (Colts historically). Not resting worked for the '07 Giants, and has probably failed others.

Each team, each set of circumstances are different, why is there this need to come up with a simplified, blanket formula for everyone? The pursuit of this kind of false answer is the stupid decision IMO. There is no answer, it's different for everyone.
And again, win or lose, Polian made the best choice a GM could make. This didn't get validated yesterday. Get on his ass about other shit (self-servingly rewriting the rules, calling for Flutie to be crippled, assaulting Jets staff) but not this.
Polian is best the GM of the last 20 years. This is typical media bullshit. When you've done what Polian's been able to do, you don't give a shit what some unqualified, hype-whoring media asshole peddles for airtime filler.

Looking forward to Colts - Saints Super Bowl.

Yuck, that would resemble Arena league more than NFL.
Hoping Cowboys and Vikes can represent the NFC better, these NFC games have been so uncharacteristic of NFC football.

 

[Brother None]

So if you want to call beating a way outmatched #8 seed after one month of rest not choking.

Isn't that exactly what it is, mr smugly-waiting-for-Colts-to-go-one-and-out? "Not choking" is a good description of it.

Also your spiel is odd. It doesn't seem in any way a reply to anything Sander said. What the heck are you going on about?

Also apparently Gaines Adams is dead.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

It wasn't choking, but it wasn't clutch either. You beat a 9 win #8 seed at home after one month of rest and preparation. I think you have to give the Chargers (or Jets) their say in all fairness.

[mr smugly-waiting-for-Colts-to-go-one-and-out?

How unassuming.

 

[Sander]

It wasn't choking, but it wasn't clutch either. You beat a 9 win #8 seed at home after one month of rest and preparation. I think you have to give the Chargers (or Jets) their say in all fairness.

It wasn't clutch. But I'm not claiming Manning is a clutch quarterback. Just that he didn't choke. Which he didn't. And yes, Chargers are not to be discounted. I'm definitely discounting the Jets, though.

Also, ohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuck more Favre Super Bowl hype.


Dominating performance by the Vikes D-line, that was the key to winning. I don't think I saw Romo get more than a second in the pocket at any point in the game, ridiculous.

Also, slightly disgraceful running-up-the-score by Favre at the end there.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Another excellent game called by Shottenheimer. Stayed patient and showed lots of restraint in sticking to the running game, nibbling away. I still like this Jets/Indy matchup.

 

[Sander]

Jets were insanely lucky to get away with the win.

Here's what had to go right for them to win:
- Chargers kill themselves with false starts and stupid penalties in the first half. In their own stadium.
- Kaeding, one of the best kickers in the league this year misses 3 field goals.
- Revis gets a lucky pick (instead of falling to the ground it bounces off about 6 body parts before falling into his hands).
- Rivers makes a terrible throw that has to be either miscommunication, or Rivers completely misfiring.
- They grab an onside-kick which was pretty much 50/50 the way it was kicked.

They hadn't been able to drive on the Chargers all day, they had one good play on offense and that was the Shonn Greene touchdown. Conversely, the Chargers had been driving on them consistently, only killing their drives with dumbass penalties.

If they play this matchup 100 times, I'm going to put my money with the Chargers every time.

I'd be very surprised if the Jets are be able to pull this off against the Colts. Colts looked much better in the first game when still playing their starters.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Jets played some superb 3rd down defense. Jets earned that victory.

The Jets had very little room for error, and they stayed patient and kept grinding away with that O-line. Limited errors. A very disciplined, well executed game by them. Great job.

If they play this matchup 100 times, I'm going to put my money with the Chargers every time.

The line was like 8 points so I don't know how you'd find any action on that.

The only way they can beat Indy is if they play the same kind of game. If SD or Indy jump out to an early lead the Jets are toast. Indy's whole team philosophy is predicated on jumping out to a fast lead and turning Freeney and Mathis loose to force turnovers.
But that Jets O-line can manhandle that small Colts D over the course of a close game.

 

[Brother None]

If they play this matchup 100 times, I'm going to put my money with the Chargers every time.

Did you steal that line from Tomlinson?

What a loathesome Sunday, both games turned out exactly like I didn't want them to, with the Minny Favres and the Loathesome Jets advancing to the Championship. Man, I pray they both get booted out.

At least I'll have shit to root for in the Cs.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

both games turned out exactly like I didn't want them to

ugh. no joke.

i'm not worried though...when it comes down to it the most realistic SB picture is Saints v. Colts

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Tomlinson turned in another one of his great postseason performances. What'd he get, 25 yards?

Can you imagine the noise surrounding a 'Sota Vs. NYJ Super Favre Bowl?

How can you not love the Jets? They only do one or two things well, everybody knows what it is, and teams like SD still couldn't stop them. That's bad.
How do you let a one-dimensional team like the Jets hang around on you like that?

Jets are playing some tight, old-school, smash mouth football right now. Inside running, stout defense, ball control, intense, physical play. They stuck to an awesome gameplan (except that option by Brad Smith) over the course of 60 minutes and didn't panic. That's all they need to do.

Jets have a puncher's chance against the Colts, who suck inside.
If Shottenheimer can keep calling games like that, Rex dials up the blitzes and zone disguises on Manning, and Sanchez doesn't blow it they have a chance.
I expect a lot of that 'no-front' defense that NYJ runs to completely fuck with and neutralize Manning's little pre-snap histrionics.


And that's 3 playoff games I've seen Kaeding blow it in now. Twice to the Jets, once to the Pats. Please re-sign this guy San Diego!

It sucks we're robbed of SD/Indy, that would've been a spectacular game.

 

[Brother None]

Tomlinson turned in another one of his great postseason performances. What'd he get, 25 yards?

Heh. Will he still be with the Bolts next year?

Can you imagine the noise surrounding a 'Sota Vs. NYJ Super Favre Bowl?

Ugh.

How can you not love the Jets?

I love the football the Jets are playing and that they got so far with it in an obvious passer's league. Great defense is great.

I just never liked the Jets franchise. And I still don't. It's the other way around with Vikes, I don't mind that franchise but don't like the team (or rather, don't like the FAVREOMFGLOOKATHISHANDSTHOSEHANDSARETHEHANDSOFGAWD).

Jets have a puncher's chance against the Colts, who suck inside.
If Shottenheimer can keep calling games like that, Rex dials up the blitzes and zone disguises on Manning, and Sanchez doesn't blow it they have a chance.
I expect a lot of that 'no-front' defense that NYJ runs to completely fuck with and neutralize Manning's little pre-snap histrionics.

Jets didn't look good vs Manning in the regular season. That game was handed to 'em by Painter, but Manning was just disassembling them. Different situation, but if anyone can dismantle 'em again, it's Manning and his "little pre-snap histrionics".