NFL 2009

[Sander]

I like the football the Jets play, there's just something about the Jets that annoys me, don't really know what it is, maybe it's just Rex Ryan.

How can you not love the Jets? They only do one or two things well, everybody knows what it is, and teams like SD still couldn't stop them. That's bad.
How do you let a one-dimensional team like the Jets hang around on you like that?

Jets are playing some tight, old-school, smash mouth football right now. Inside running, stout defense, ball control, intense, physical play. They stuck to an awesome gameplan (except that option by Brad Smith) over the course of 60 minutes and didn't panic. That's all they need to do.

No. They also need to go lucky. The Jets can't consistently win games against teams like the Saints, Colts or Jets without a load of luck (and I include the opposing team killing itself with luck).

At least the Saints will kick the Vikes from the Super Bowl next week. I hope. Dear god please let the Saints win.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

How can you not love the Jets?

oh, gee...i dunno...between the Jerseytrash fans, the belligerent head coach and the Revis whinging (he was robbed!) what's not to love?

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I love the football the Jets are playing...I just never liked the Jets franchise.

I like the football the Jets play, there's just something about the Jets that annoys me

Heh. Are you two working off the same script or the same notes or something?

oh, gee...i dunno...between the Jerseytrash fans, the belligerent head coach and the Revis whinging (he was robbed!) what's not to love? Rolling Eyes

Ryan may be an enormous buffoon, and the Jets are an anachronism right now. They play good defense and run the ball. In a league that doesn't want them to succeed. I want more Jets football and less of this AZ/GB 90 point video game bullshit. That's not NFL, that's Arena League.

 

[Brother None]

They play good defense and run the ball. In a league that doesn't want them to succeed.

Yeah, Cimms, no one contested that. None of us (three) can stand the Jets franchise/fans/attitude, tho'.

Also the NFL is leaving you behind in a hurry, ol' buddy. You might want to switch to Blood Bowl or summat.

Speaking of things normal people like but Cimm's beserker perspective of the sport probably doesn't, I liked this. Chargers fan standing up for a loud Jets fan in their own stadium? Classy.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Also the NFL is leaving you behind in a hurry, ol' buddy. You might want to switch to Blood Bowl or summat.

It is?
Come on man, use your head, there aren't enough good QBs to support a predominantly passing league. If anybody wants to go backwards, it's not me, I don't want AFL circa 1960s football. Do you? Do you really consider going backwards to that evolution?

Who's behind the times? SD was running the Air Coryell passing offense from the 70s yesterday and they couldn't overcome the Jets. Who, let's be honest, they are #1, but they aren't a great defense. Yet still we just witnessed one of the league's best downfield passing attacks get shut down. Probably the league's best longball thrower, get stymied. All those pro-bowlers, all those tall WRs, pro-bowl QB. Couldn't read that D in the second half, against a sloppy, .500 ball club. They've stacked the deck against the D, and these pro-bowl QBs can't reeed it. Something like a 58.8 QB rating against the Jets this year. Thems failing grades.

But if you can't beat em, change the rules! Right?

I'm not really alone either.
Greg Williams on the GB/AZ game

I thought defense was set back 100 years in the NFL

Speaking of things normal people like but Cimm's beserker perspective of the sport probably doesn't,

If you're trying to come off like a bigoted demagogue, you're doing a bang-up job man.


So I like good defense. I played LB, I don't really care for QBs and their pussified ways.

I loved that hit on Warner. You wait years to get an opportunity to hit somebody like that.

That was the best playoff hit on a QB I've seen since this huge one.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAABWqhNvtg[/youtube]

 

[Sander]

It is?
Come on man, use your head, there aren't enough good QBs to support a predominantly passing league. If anybody wants to go backwards, it's not me, I don't want AFL circa 1960s football. Do you? Do you really consider going backwards to that evolution?

Who's behind the times? SD was running the Air Coryell passing offense from the 70s yesterday and they couldn't overcome the Jets. Who, let's be honest, they are #1, but they aren't a great defense. Yet still we just witnessed one of the league's best downfield passing attacks get shut down. Probably the league's best longball thrower, get stymied. All those pro-bowlers, all those tall WRs, pro-bowl QB. Couldn't read that D in the second half, against a sloppy, .500 ball club. They've stacked the deck against the D, and these pro-bowl QBs can't reeed it. Something like a 58.8 QB rating against the Jets this year. Thems failing grades.

I don't think that's true at all. The Chargers' offense looked fine in that game. No, they weren't hitting the big plays they normally do, but they were hitting every underneath receiver and consistently driving down the field. They didn't hit many big plays (I remember a few, though), but that doesn't matter if you can just take 7 yards on every play. Hell, I think their initial gameplan worked very well against the Jets.

But the problem: 3 missed field goals and 10 penalties for 87 yards, mostly in the first half. That's what stopped them, and that's stupid, sloppy play, but that's not a function of great Jets defense or a lack of downfield passing.

If you take away those first half penalties or make one of those two first half field goals, I'm pretty sure the Jets are down by two scores or more, and they can't get back in it.

That said, in the second half the picture was entirely different. I think that showed Ryan's ability to adjust and adjust well, and Norv's failure to adjust at all. Second half was much more dominating by the Jets.

But if you can't beat em, change the rules! Right?

I'm not really alone either.
Greg Williams on the GB/AZ game

I thought defense was set back 100 years in the NFL

Sure. Defense was crap in that game after the first half. But hell, it made for an exciting game. There's more than one road to good and exciting football.

If you're trying to come off like a bigoted demagogue, you're doing a bang-up job man.


So I like good defense. I played LB, I don't really care for QBs and their pussified ways.

I loved that hit on Warner. You wait years to get an opportunity to hit somebody like that.

That was the best playoff hit on a QB I've seen since this huge one.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAABWqhNvtg[/youtube]

Everybody loves good defense. I just can't get excited by the Jets stopping someone, unless it's Favre. I'd cheer for the Jets there.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

petition to change Cimm's username to Dr. Killjoy.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Sorry man, I just don't like how they've legislated the NFL into a prissy passing league were contact is a dirty word. QBs & WRs are such pussies today, you can't deny that. They're not really even football players anymore. They're like some endangered species, some delicate, precious natural resource that needs to be coddled and preserved.

The NFL's trends are cyclical. When things get out of equilibrium, the league, the teams, the players adapt to survive. Instead of seeing a natural transition into a new era of the mammoth QBs emerge, big, durable, strong-armed QBs like Roethlisberger and Flacco that can take a pounding from a 300lb D-lineman. We get legislation to enforce the protection of the league's golden boys. Every couple years they take another weapon away from defenders. Every couple years DBs get dealt another blow. That's not really good offense, it's hamstrung defense.

The application of these rules is worse. Look at that shot Leonhard delivered in the end-zone on that fumble the other day. He forces the fumble, prevents the TD. Perfect defensive play? No, he gets flagged? Personal foul? Defenseless WR? Negates the fumble. How the fuck are you supposed to tackle a guy catching the ball in the end zone if his back is turned to you?
What kind of Catch 22 umpiring is this? There's no way he can stop that TD without doing what he did. Who's defenseless again? Just stop the charade and give the team 6 points.
If you're going to hand calls like this out, why even bother? Just give them free shots at the end zone like a home run derby.

 

[Brother None]

It is?

According to you, yes it is?

Do you really consider going backwards to that evolution?

Who, me? No. But I don't make the rules.

SD was running the Air Coryell passing offense from the 70s yesterday and they couldn't overcome the Jets.

I'm not sure if you watched the same game as I did. Jets lucked out to an awesome extent. Awesome! Which rocks! Woot D! Still hate the Jets!

If you're trying to come off like a bigoted demagogue, you're doing a bang-up job man.

Demagogue? Really? You might want to check up your definitions.

Also, I'm poking fun at you. I don't know if you know this, but you're very hard to take seriously. Not trying to be snippy, it's just the truth. There's entertainment value in your crotchety old man "the game's being murdered! It's a Colts conspiracy!"-act, but if you think anyone'll take it seriously, you might want to look for another angle.

That was the best playoff hit on a QB I've seen since this huge one.

Woooh injuries.

Are we sharing favourite moments now? Here's prolly my fav moment of Seahawks history

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHsPheboe7E[/youtube]

Hey Twinks: looks like the Pack'll be saying goodbye to Schneider. Yay?

 

[Sander]

Sorry man, I just don't like how they've legislated the NFL into a prissy passing league were contact is a dirty word. QBs & WRs are such pussies today, you can't deny that. They're not really even football players anymore. They're like some endangered species, some delicate, precious natural resource that needs to be coddled and preserved.

I can definitely deny that they're pussies. Did you see Stafford make a play with a dislocated shoulder? Steve Smith catching a ball while breaking his arm? Hasselbeck playing with broken ribs? Hell, Rivers playing with a broken leg a couple seasons back?
You don't mean that they're pussies, you mean that the rules protect them to a greater extent than they protect other players.

The NFL's trends are cyclical. When things get out of equilibrium, the league, the teams, the players adapt to survive. Instead of seeing a natural transition into a new era of the mammoth QBs emerge, big, durable, strong-armed QBs like Roethlisberger and Flacco that can take a pounding from a 300lb D-lineman. We get legislation to enforce the protection of the league's golden boys. Every couple years they take another weapon away from defenders. Every couple years DBs get dealt another blow. That's not really good offense, it's hamstrung defense.

The NFL's trends are not cyclical at all. They're evolving, not cyclical. Spiraling would be a better word, as there is indeed a constant game of inventing and adjusting. But this goes for both sides of the ball, and at any time there are different teams doing different things. Chilly's high-percentage, short passing system is entirely different from the Chargers' big play downfield passing, which is different from the Jets' run-heavy, play-action game. And we're not even talking about defense.

And why would a transition to big QBs be a natural evolution? QBs who can pass well in an NFL offense are so rare that teams don't really get to be choosy about what kind of body their QB has.

The application of these rules is worse. Look at that shot Leonhard delivered in the end-zone on that fumble the other day. He forces the fumble, prevents the TD. Perfect defensive play? No, he gets flagged? Personal foul? Defenseless WR? Negates the fumble. How the fuck are you supposed to tackle a guy catching the ball in the end zone if his back is turned to you?
What kind of Catch 22 umpiring is this? There's no way he can stop that TD without doing what he did. Who's defenseless again? Just stop the charade and give the team 6 points.
If you're going to hand calls like this out, why even bother? Just give them free shots at the end zone like a home run derby.

He had plenty of ways to stop that TD. Most of them involve stopping the pass from getting to the WR, not taking the WR out of the play physically after the pass got there.

I don't agree entirely with the strictness of the PI and defenseless WR rules, but those rules are needed. If you're going to let DBs do anything they want, passing is completely crippled.

I do agree with most of the QB-hit, rules, though. QBs are in a unique position, because their stance and use of legs is entirely different from everyone else on the field. Those legs are much more vulnerable, and it's not a shame to prevent them from going out with injuries.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I'm not sure if you watched the same game as I did. Jets lucked out to an awesome extent. Awesome! Which rocks! Woot D! Still hate the Jets!

First of all, I hate the Jets . And we can breakdown the Chargers all day. They've been knocking on the door an awfull while now, and with all these 13-3 and 14-2 seasons with one-and-outs, they are starting to move into choker territory, it pains me to say.
Shitty coaching - poor clock mgmt, odd onside kick decision. Overconfidence. Missed FGs. It's becoming a pattern for SD. Great music videos though, got to hand that to them. I heard the Jets played that on their plane the entire flight over.

Let's be honest, the Jets are lucky to even make the playoffs at all. But, they haven't blown it yet though. They're overachieving more than any other team. Playing good team football. I like that. I respect that. I like them in the spoiler role. They remind me a lot of the 2001 Pats.

Demagogue? Really? You might want to check up your definitions.

Somebody who uses populist prejudices to cut someone else down. Like this: "the game's being murdered! It's a Colts conspiracy!". First of all, I never said that, that's your prejudice painting me into a corner I never made. That's not fair dude.
Secondly, conspiracy implies this is behind closed doors.

You know, feel free to attack me for what I say and do. But not for what your perception of what a rabid Pats fan does. If you have any doubt what I think on a topic. Please ask me. I'd be happy to discuss it, in this here NFL thread. That's why I'm here. You might be suprised when I deviate from your preconceived knee-jerk notions of what I actually think. But please don't take presumptuous shots at me and think I'm going to be quiet about it.

I have original thoughts on the topic of football. And I back them up with stats, facts, and examples.
I'm not just coming here and barfing back whatever Mike Florio and Easterbrook talk about. I've got my own ideas, they are formulated independantly, and they are quite well thought out and cogent if I do say so myself. Fucking eloquence is the word really.
They aren't above reproach by any means.

Also, I'm poking fun at you. I don't know if you know this, but you're very hard to take seriously. Not trying to be snippy, it's just the truth. There's entertainment value in your crotchety old man

I hardly take myself seriously, and you might be missing that half of what I post here is tongue in cheek bombast.
I'll play the Al Bundy role, I'm cool with that. Just come at me with some football talk, not the stereotyping. That makes you look like more of a close-minded homer than me.

Woooh injuries.

It's not the injury that's significant. It's taking Joe Montana out of an NFC champioship game on your way to SB gold. That's a thing of beauty. That's a hit that changed the course of the champioship. Too bad Leonard Marshall would get flagged and fined for that hit today.

That Largent one is spectacular though.

edit:

You don't mean that they're pussies, you mean that the rules protect them to a greater extent than they protect other players.

I mean both. You never used to see people run out of bounds to avoid contact. You'd reach the sideline, you'd turn upfield, and you'd attack someone. Your HOF RBs like Payton and Brown would be perfect examples of this.

The NFL's trends are not cyclical at all. They're evolving, not cyclical.

Going back and forth to a trend that already existed like the wide-open passing attack of the early AFL is cyclical. Defenses will counter it. And if they want to artificially prop up this style of play, they'll change the rules again. Won't make a difference (hate to sound like a broken record) but there arent enough good QBs to sustain that.

And why would a transition to big QBs be a natural evolution? QBs who can pass well in an NFL offense are so rare that teams don't really get to be choosy about what kind of body their QB has.

It's the league, it's teams and their players adapting and evolving naturally to overcome a competitive advantage.
Players get bigger and faster every year. It's almost commonplace that all lineman are over 300+ (compared to 15 years ago there were only a couple, and they were slugs). If there weren't recently enacted rules in place to protect the Tom Bradys of the world, you'd have to be looking at Big Ben type QB who can take that kind of punishment.
Defense has a competitive advantage - forcing offenses to compensate with QBs physically better suited to contend with them. That's the invisible hand at work.
We're being robbed of that with protectionist rules designed to bolster QBs who can't keep pace with advancements in defense. It's like when the gov't props up non-solvent banks. That's not the free market at work.

It's one thing when it's purpose is to protect players from injury - headslaps, clotheslines, leg whips etc. It's another thing when you change the rules because offense isn't deft enough to cope. It's another thing entirely when these rules are then open to interpretation and cannot be challenged.

You have teams that play for the flag now. Not for the score, or the 1st down or the yardage. Just to draw a flag. Automatic 1st and all the distance. That's a crutch to cover up shitty passing offenses.

These teams need the bar lowered. They wouldn't survive 2 minutes if guys like Atkinson and Tatum still played.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuP0Cldbn10[/youtube]

I do agree with most of the QB-hit, rules, though. QBs are in a unique position, because their stance and use of legs is entirely different from everyone else on the field. Those legs are much more vulnerable, and it's not a shame to prevent them from going out with injuries.

Why is it OK to submarine D-lineman in goalline packages then? Because they're just lineman? They're not pretty and gracefull and throw the spiral like Tom Brady?


edit X2:

Still waiting for you guys to slam the SD fans for booing their team at home when only down 10-7 in the 4th............

Wouldn't want to think you guys are just knee-jerk Patriot haters.
Or are you?


Expect great hilarity to ensue on the FAN as Jets fans take Francesa to task for all the taunting/baiting last week.

 

[Sander]

It's not the injury that's significant. It's taking Joe Montana out of an NFC champioship game on your way to SB gold. That's a thing of beauty. That's a hit that changed the course of the champioship. Too bad Leonard Marshall would get flagged and fined for that hit today.

I have a hard time cheering for injuries. Big hits, big plays sure. But the resulting injuries, I'm not going to cheer for that.

Hell, that Warner hit on saturday was awesome and completely legal, but I'm cheering on the hit, not any resultant injuries. I'd much rather see Warner get up and go back to work.

It's the league, it's teams and their players adapting and evolving naturally to overcome a competitive advantage.
Players get bigger and faster every year. It's almost commonplace that all lineman are over 300+ (compared to 15 years ago there were only a couple, and they were slugs). If there weren't recently enacted rules in place to protect the Tom Bradys of the world, you'd have to be looking at Big Ben type QB who can take that kind of punishment.

No, that's not the natural evolution, it is one possible way in which some teams can go. And you see it, you see Big Ben, Josh Freeman, Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Byron Leftwich. You also see people like Jamarcus Russell, who can't possibly hack it in the NFL. The lesson there isn't that the evolution is bigger QBs - there simply aren't enough QBs to be picky about getting a big or small QB. That isn't an evolution you're ever going to see, people who can throw the ball well are too rare for there to be an evolution in picking the right body type, especially because big guys who are athletic enough are even more rare (Byron Leftwich is a failure mostly because he's a statue in the pocket).

I'm not sure that bigger QBs are actually less injury prone either, by the way. Most of the problems are ligament damage - ACL tears and that sort of thing. Extra size and weight doesn't really help there. They are generally better at shaking off tacklers, though.

Defense has a competitive advantage - forcing offenses to compensate with QBs physically better suited to contend with them. That's the invisible hand at work.
We're being robbed of that with protectionist rules designed to bolster QBs who can't keep pace with advancements in defense. It's like when the gov't props up non-solvent banks. That's not the free market at work.

You said it yourself: there are not enough good passers to go around 32 teams, not by a long shot.
So what, then, is the problem with trying to preserve the passing game? Do you really want to see a league where 5 teams are running a good passing offense, because that's how many healthy, good QBs there are who have WRs that can actually get open against DBs just tackling them as soon as the QB looks at the receiver?

The problem isn't the rules, really. What's a problem is teams trying to force their players in a system, rather than adapting their system to the player. What Parcells did in Miami is a perfect example of adapting the system to the players. He ran the wildcat offense, until he lost Ronnie Brown and couldn't do it. Adapted it to a system emphasizing short passing, the strength of his QB and WR.
Or Bill Belichick - he got Welker and Moss and adapted the offense to their strengths: short passing game with Welker, alternated with big shots to Moss.
Or Payton - uses Bush as an outside runner, screen and short passing receiver instead of trying to force him into the classic RB mold.

Contrast Jack del Rio. Tries to force Garrard into being the focal part of a passing offense that has only Sims-Walker as a competent receiver: failure.
Contrast Greg Olsen (Bucs OC), keeps putting the ball in the hands of a rookie QB who isn't ready to be the focal point of an offense, then designs plays that work horribly with the QBs weaknesses.

The problem is those guys, the people who go with the system and try to force it in with players that can't do it.

It's one thing when it's purpose is to protect players from injury - headslaps, clotheslines, leg whips etc. It's another thing when you change the rules because offense isn't deft enough to cope. It's another thing entirely when these rules are then open to interpretation and cannot be challenged.

Look, your argument is based on one big assumption:
The game only evolves bottom-up (style of play changes, reaction to that etc).
Nonsense. Look at the league history, there are rule changes every single year mandated from the top down. Those aren't organic changes and evolutions of the game, they're mandated.

Hell, for a long time the NFL was criticized for being too conservative. The USFL came up, started competing with them, and the NFL changed a bunch of its rules in response. Instant replay? Straight from the USFL. Two-point conversion? USFL rule. Were you railing against those for being silly rules, mandated from above?

You have teams that play for the flag now. Not for the score, or the 1st down or the yardage. Just to draw a flag. Automatic 1st and all the distance. That's a crutch to cover up shitty passing offenses.

So who exactly would be doing that? What team is just taking shots downfield so they can get flags? And if they have WRs who can't get free anyway or QBs who can't get the ball, why would the defense need to be giving flags away?

Why is it OK to submarine D-lineman in goalline packages then? Because they're just lineman? They're not pretty and gracefull and throw the spiral like Tom Brady?

Linemen don't use their legs the way QBs do. I'm not a doctor and I don't know the details of it, but from what I know the way QBs use their feet and legs for footing while standing still, there is a much greater chance of injury for them than there is for a linemen or any other player on the field. When you're standing up, putting all your weight on your static legs, then get hit below the knee there's a relatively large risk of blowing out a knee. And I have no problems at all with protecting people from injury. That's the Brady rule.
Roughing the passer? No problem with that rule. There's no need to hit someone who is out of the play, and you're still allowed to block them out of the play.

I don't agree with all the protection rules, but most of them are fine.

Still waiting for you guys to slam the SD fans for booing their team at home when only down 10-7 in the 4th............

Wouldn't want to think you guys are just knee-jerk Patriot haters.
Or are you?

Yeah, that wasn't too great. I noticed it on just one play (LT's 12th or so plunge for barely a gain).
It's slightly different because LT's had a shit year, and Norv has kept force-feeding him the ball even though no one wants him to.
Still, I don't like fans booing their own team in basically a championship game when they're trying to get back in it.

 

[Brother None]

Overconfidence. Missed FGs. It's becoming a pattern for SD.

It is what it is. They'll do better when LDT's outta town.

Let's be honest, the Jets are lucky to even make the playoffs at all.

If they kick out the Colts that would be level of hilarity even I can appreciate, since they're only in it thanks to said Colts.

Somebody who uses populist prejudices to cut someone else down.

No, a demagogue is someone who uses populist notions to gain power, or manipulates an issue using populist arguments. Cutting someone down is not related to the concept demagogue.

First of all, I never said that.

Right, my bad. So you think the game's doing fine and the Colts have nothing to do with any rule changes? Just checking.

You know, feel free to attack me for what I say and do.

That's what I'm doing, only you twist and writhe like an eel and so are hard to pin down. You complain the league's being pussified to make it impossible for defense, and I note that this would imply all the rules changes means the league is leaving you behind, and then suddenly SD's offense is anachronistic and the Jets D stiffles pro-bowlers without effort (not what I saw, but hey).

But not for what your perception of what a rabid Pats fan does.

The heck do the Pats have to do with this?

I have original thoughts on the topic of football.

Really? I might've missed that amongst the Rodney Harrison-esque diatribes.

I'm not just coming here and barfing back whatever Mike Florio and Easterbrook talk about. I've got my own ideas, they are formulated independantly, and they are quite well thought out and cogent if I do say so myself. Fucking eloquence is the word really.

Good to know you think so highly of yourself and your opinions. That makes one of you.

And I'm not saying that to be snide, I like you, I think you're funny, I just hope you realise you (and by extension, your opinions) are very hard to take seriously. It's just an FYI. If that's no issue for you, fair enough.

(I don't read Florio or Easterbrook, btw, the only opinion I always take seriously is Greg Cosell's, all others just go in the file and are duly considered. So I'm not sure who you're accusing of "barfing back" opinions)

I hardly take myself seriously, and you might be missing that half of what I post here is tongue in cheek bombast.

Yeeeeeeaaaah, and yet me poking fun at you is not tongue in cheek but rather "demagogery"? You'd figure a linebacker can take it as well as he can dish it out, as per the nature of his position

It's not the injury that's significant. It's taking Joe Montana out of an NFC champioship game.

Isn't taking someone out of the game injuring him?

That Largent one is spectacular though.

Unloaded!

Funny thing is it didn't even matter because of the flag. I still think he enjoyed it.

I mean both. You never used to see people run out of bounds to avoid contact. You'd reach the sideline, you'd turn upfield, and you'd attack someone. Your HOF RBs like Payton and Brown would be perfect examples of this.

Huh. So how far back do you want to go before the NFL is right again? Franco Harris is 30 years ago, and he didn't fit your run-through-em-mold.

 

[UniversalWolf]

I agree the NFL's lost some of its edge by getting away from the hard hits and gearing everything toward the passing game. All you have to do is watch ten minutes of video of a game from twenty or thirty years ago to see that. On the other hand, I don't hate the new style either. The Pack's pass-pass-pass-run-pass offense is fun to watch. I also like that the NFL got rid of the force-out rule.

I also think the Jets are annoying in some difficult-to-define way. It might be something that trickles down from the ownership and management to the players and fans. On the other hand, I can't help but cheer for Wisconsin folk hero Jim Leonhard. He was robbed of the DPOY award this year!

I'm starting to wonder whether Petyon Manning will retire before Favre does.

 

[Brother None]

Different is not necessarily worse. Maybe the XFL can be re-instituted as an XTREME HARD-HITTING LEAGUE.

And yeah, I always liked Jim Leonhard. Scrappy little hitter, I loved how he played vs the Chargers.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I have a hard time cheering for injuries. Big hits, big plays sure. But the resulting injuries, I'm not going to cheer for that.

There's a distinction to be made between maiming someone in a way that will effect their quality of life and knocking them out of the game.

I'm not going to get on Philly fans for cheering Michael Irvin's career ending neck injury in the old Vet either though.

Pain and injury management used to be a huge part of the QB position. It's not much anymore.

people who can throw the ball well are too rare for there to be an evolution in picking the right body type

Why did it take Doug Flutie like a decade to break into the NFL?

I'm not sure that bigger QBs are actually less injury prone either...They are generally better at shaking off tacklers, though.

Well, more elusive is less abusive.

Hell, for a long time the NFL was criticized for being too conservative. The USFL came up, started competing with them, and the NFL changed a bunch of its rules in response. Instant replay? Straight from the USFL. Two-point conversion? USFL rule. Were you railing against those for being silly rules, mandated from above?

Video replay isn't written in stone. A lot of coaches and organizations are opposed to it in it's current form, some against it in any form. IIRC, it's voted on every year, and it's usually close. I would not be at all surprised to see it ebb and flow in it's presence and implementation. It's still a work in progress.
2-point conversion was being used in college before the USFL ever existed.
It was more of a headscratcher why the NFL never adopted it from college all those years.

I think the 'no fair catch' rule in the XFL had potential by replacing a boring, ceremonial gesture into a live play.

The old on-side kick rules were a lot better too IMO. They're too hard to get now, pretty much ending some games that could've developed into something more.


I love old rule where you were only down by contact, not forward progress. Defense could work some great free shots back in those days. Woe be to he who ever fell down on his own, you were a sitting duck.

Plus you watch that old footage when clotheslines, facemasks, headslaps and shit were all legal. Nobody can tell me the game wasn't tougher then. How many HOF like talents the like of Deacon Jones that are being legislated out of the game now?
Legwhips just aren't cool at all though, dirty fuggin' O-lineman.

If they kick out the Colts that would be level of hilarity even I can appreciate, since they're only in it thanks to said Colts.

That's the only reason I'm cool with the Jets. It's like some schlub crashing a party he wasn't invited to and leaving with the hottest girl.

Jets need a 5th straight weekly miracle to pull this one off.
Funny how this is shaking out though with the week 16 pass. Plus the Jets only successful season was SBII against the Colts.

Manning hasn't handled confusion well in the playoffs though. This D has a shot.
Not a great one.

No, a demagogue is someone who uses populist notions to gain power, or manipulates an issue using populist arguments. Cutting someone down is not related to the concept demagogue.

See, I'm an artiste with the language, I'm just putting my little flourish on it.

You complain the league's being pussified to make it impossible for defense, and I note that this would imply all the rules changes means the league is leaving you behind, and then suddenly SD's offense is anachronistic and the Jets D stiffles pro-bowlers without effort (not what I saw, but hey).

I just don't see that the passing league thing is flourishing on it's own without rule changes to artificially prop it up. That the Bolts are using some offense out of the 70s tells me that passing itself isn't evolving. Just the rules have because they handcuff DBs and pass rushers.

The heck do the Pats have to do with this?

Everything I say does, because I'm a wild-eyed, fire breathing caricature of a masshole that's incapable of impartial thought.

Really? I might've missed that amongst the Rodney Harrison-esque diatribes.

You might be surprised, but I think Rodney Harrison is a douchebag. Great player. Can't stand him when he opens his mouth. Never could.

Good to know you think so highly of yourself and your opinions. That makes one of you.

There's only like 4 people here, so that gives me like a 25% approval rating. I think Sander is a potential swing voter though.

I agree the NFL's lost some of its edge by getting away from the hard hits and gearing everything toward the passing game. All you have to do is watch ten minutes of video of a game from twenty or thirty years ago to see that.

Thank you. (Another swing voter)

On the other hand, I don't hate the new style either. The Pack's pass-pass-pass-run-pass offense is fun to watch. I also like that the NFL got rid of the force-out rule.

I don't know, that 2007 Pats season was such a waste to me. I could care less about passing titles and MVPs if they don't come with Lombardis. The games were all boring blowouts except for 3 or 4. I didn't think that was great football compared to the tight nail biters they were known for prior to that.
I'd take Troy Brown, Deion Branch, and David Patten and their SB wins over Welker and Moss with records but no gold.
See, I hold the Pats to the same standard I do the Colts.

I also think the Jets are annoying in some difficult-to-define way. It might be something that trickles down from the ownership and management to the players and fans.

See, as a Pats fan I have to look at them like the annoying little brother. You almost start to feel bad the way everything goes wrong for them.

Like that press conference where they were going to announce Belichik as the successor to Parcells. Only to have him resign without warning on live TV after like 24 hours as HC of the NYJ.
That was classic Pats/Jets warfare.

On the other hand, I can't help but cheer for Wisconsin folk hero Jim Leonhard. He was robbed of the DPOY award this year! Mr. Green

I love the introductions, especially here in the NYC market. You get all the different NYC accents bouncing around then Jim Leonard comes out "Jim Leonhard, Wiscyaaansin".

 

[Sander]

Why did it take Doug Flutie like a decade to break into the NFL?

There's a minimum size under which it becomes exceedingly hard to succeed in the NFL, simply because it's physically difficult to throw the ball well when you're short and surrounded by huge linemen. And even with that, there are always people who will prove scouts wrong (Brees, Flutie).

Anyway, why I bumped this thread, Donald Brown fucks up an assignment:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS-90x1op4s[/youtube]

 

[UniversalWolf]

Al Davis should decapitate JaMarcus Russell and Doug Flutie and transplant their heads. He'd end up with the greatest QB in history and a guy who could wash his car for tips.

 

[Sander]

First, Colts - Jets. Took Manning until halfway in the second quarter to figure out the Jets defense, or maybe it was the Jet's starting corner getting injured. Either way, after the first quarter, the Jets D didn't look like a shadow of itself, some huge holes in the coverage and

And then.

Holy shit.

That game was probably the most exciting game of football I've watched 'live', for me. More exciting than the past two Super Bowls, more exciting than Pack - Cards.

And finally, no more Favre! Until the offseason, that is.

Can't wait for the Super Bowl.

But the game itself was one hell of a sloppy game of football. 9 fumbles, 2 picks - that epitomizes this game. It's a miracle the Vikings were even in it, and that's a testament to the Vikes' D playing a great game of FOOTBALL even without being able to get much pressure on Brees. Or maybe it was Payton somehow failing to take advantage of the Vikes' weak secondary with lots of passes.

 

[Brother None]

That's just testament to how short you've been watching the game. But it probably has more to do with you caring about the outcome. I certainly did, I cheered every time I saw Favre limp, for every hit he got and whooped at every pick he threw. Good game to watch when it came to that.

Vikes fans are livid. Conspiracy! We wuz robbed! What else is new with fans feeling that way about a close game? I don't see the blown calls in overtime, especially not since this was the Booth Review Bowl, and they were careful with their calls.

Or is this the Muddle in the Huddle? Drawing a 12 man in the huddle penalty at that moment, guys, really? Really?! Who coaches these guys, Ronald McDonald? With the pre-existing authority problems, I wonder if Chilly is back next year. Hopefully Favre isn't.

If he's not, he certainly set a new record.
Favre's last throw for the Falcons? Interception.
Favre's last throw for the Packers? Interception.
Favre's last throw for the Jets? Interception.
Favre's last throw for the Vikings? Interception?
Favre's last throw for his career? Interception?

That's his career in a nutshell.

I didn't care as much about the Jets-Colts game and it's kind of a shame, I like both the Saints and Colts well enough so I have no one to really cheer on. Then again, the Colts are less likeable, so I'll probably be pro the ex-Aints.

Hey Cimm, Manning is 9-8 in the post-season now. Can we put the choker tag to pasture now or does he have to win it all to merit your approval?

Four years ago:

Now Arizona and NOLA are off it too. Just a handful of futiles left.