NFL 2011

Sander said as much, but it's worth reiterating why you can never convince us to adopt your viewpoint, Cimms:

Cimmerian Nights said:
The highest rated baseball games are always NY/Boston. Nationwide. That's what baseball fans want, I guess.
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Is it what baseball fans want or is it all they got? Are the top-tier games by far highest rated because it's what people want to see or that the rest sucks, in other words...

Cimmerian Nights said:
I want the strongest, most competitive teams that money can buy as provided for by the host city. If a team is being held back because of a small funding base, they should look for a new city that will support them.
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Nothing is free. Part of the reason the NFL is so massively popular, no matter how much you like to stand on your head and deny it, is that EVERY game is potentially competitive. And I don't mean in a "oh every team has a shot, there's always a chance" sense of top-heavy competitions, I mean as in there's always a real chance. Even for the NYG in '07, who I summarily dismissed prior to the Bowl. Any Given Sunday. It's a big part of the reason people love that game.

What you want is significantly less competitive, but more high-quality games. Nothing is free. That's a trade-off. It is a trade-off we and most non-Boston/NY/Dallas NFL fans do not want. Quality of play is one thing, yes, but it won't increase the talent pool. It won't increase the number of individual players that excel. All it'll do is spread it over to a ton of uncompetitive games and a handful of super-amazing ones. Not worth it.
 
Sander said:
No one's saying it's perfect. Besides, the fact that there's a fanbase in Jacksonville and not in LA happened because LA demonstrated over and over and over again that it cannot sustain an NFL team no matter how rich the area is. They proved it with the Rams and with the Raiders. Yet still the NFL is trying to get a team back there, so I'm not sure what you're actually complaining about.
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Raiders were still in LA when the Jags were founded, so I don't know that you can say Jacksonville was chosen over LA. It think that was more a reflection of Al Davis' maverick, NFL brass rankling ways that they left LA.
I don't remember the Raiders or Rams ever being blacked out at home for a whole year due to lack of attendance.

Anyway, in the MLB you get the Pittsburgh Pirates purposefully keeping down their payroll so they can make as much profit. In the same market in the NFL, the most successful franchise in history resides. I'd say it's working pretty damn well.
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I don't think the Pirate's scheme would float were it not for the luxury tax dollars they receive from the big spenders.
Steelers, like the Pirates, also operate at a FA trade deficit. They never go after FAs, and rarely resign their own guys to big contracts, opting to let them get big money elsewhere. Steelers are a pretty uniquely run franchise, and I don't think max. profit is always what drives them.
Also, fuck excellence. I don't want to see a team dominate year in year out because they have the most money.
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It helps, but I don't know that it was the be-all-end-all pre-parity. Bill Walsh didn't dominate because his GM spent more. Even still, the '9ers had epic battles with Giants, Packers, Cowboys - some great NFCC games in that era. Those were dream teams by today's standards.

Oh wow what a novel idea, I'm sure no one thought of the idea "Hey just find another city like New York somewhere if your market isn't that size". Genius, Cimms, truly. :roll:
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The invisible hand adjusts slowly. It's a risky, huge undertaking to move cities, and I imagine would take years to recoop the expenses.

Nothing is free. Part of the reason the NFL is so massively popular, no matter how much you like to stand on your head and deny it, is that EVERY game is potentially competitive.
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I don't deny that it's not more competitive across the board, it is.

I think that there's a lot of reasons why the league is growing, I don't know how you can say that it's because of parity or because of rule changes either. I think a shitty economy will keep people at home watching free, network programming contributes a lot too. Plus the addition of fantasy football, online gambling, new-media stuff is a huge driver too. I think you are overvaluing parity as a driver of the NFL's economic growth.

Let's stay with the Jags. The league has gone to great lengths to build a fanbase there. Rather than go through 20 years of misery like Bucs fans, they let the Jags and Panthers have an expansion draft where they could poach veterans off of every team. High first round picks. Let Jacksonville host a SB despite being ill-suited.

Again, lowest ticket prices and crappy attendance, blackouts etc.
The NFL's done everything they can to jump-start the Jags and prop them up - it's not going to work, parity or not. Too small a market. Too small to sustain downturns in the team's fortunes.
Same with the Bills, shitty local economy + shitty team = bad attendance.

What you want is significantly less competitive, but more high-quality games. Nothing is free. That's a trade-off.
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Yep.
I guess we need to ask where you draw the line at achieving true parity and what it's cost is too. It's obvious that some teams need more help than the current parity-driven measures can provide.
 
Dude, where's my fackin' pass rushaah?

Guess I can't fault Belichik for working the angles.
He can basically generate at least an additional 2ND round pick every year in perpetuity by continuing to defer the 2nd 1st rounder. All for dealing Richard Seymour, who was a cap casualty anyway.

I think Homlgren made the best move of the night though.

Draft is just not as fun without the Raiders.

Congrats to Newton, was reading that he's one of only 3 dudes to win the Heisman, NCAA Championship, and become 1st overall pick all in the same year. He's the only one since WWII. Pretty elite achievement - that has no bearing whatsoever on how good a pro he'll be.
 
What about Atlanta and the Queens? Hahahaha! People are so fucking desperate for that 1st round money shot, I love it. Meanwhile my boy T.T. just packs the insulation back into the walls. So now we have an exit plan for Cliffy, who'll very likely play one or two more years and be replaced by our pick who'll be coached up and ready to go.

Heh. I love my team.
 
TwinkieGorilla said:
What about Atlanta and the Queens? Hahahaha! People are so fucking desperate for that 1st round money shot, I love it. Meanwhile my boy T.T. just packs the insulation back into the walls. So now we have an exit plan for Cliffy, who'll very likely play one or two more years and be replaced by our pick who'll be coached up and ready to go.

Heh. I love my team.
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Yep. That Falcons move had me rolling on the floor for a while. Mortgaging your future for a single player is almost always a bad idea.

But hey, Rich McKay is their president. He did the same thing with the Bucs, multiple years on end. Got him a Super Bowl in the end, but the team never recovered.
 
I still can't believe this QB overdraft happened. The 1st overall pick is a one-year started with a bare number of attempts to his name. He isn't even a passer right now, he has almost 0 NFL-worthy skills, just his physical upside. What a fucking horrible pick.

And the likes of Locker and Ponder going in the top-12? What a joke.

Ponder and Newton are fucking too. Ponder won't survive a day in the NFC North facing Suh, Fairley, Matthews III, Raji and Peppers behind that joke of an O-line. And Newton will be forced to play in his first year when he can't possibly be ready, though the situation is better (good running O and defense).

Locker landed ideally. Great O-line, run-option offense. He's basically replacing Vince Young while projecting as a similarly limited QB, but less of a headcase. Sensible pick in a way, but a huge reach. Still, good for Locker.

Gabbert will hopefully be allowed to sit. He's not a pocket passer right now.

As for the Seahawks...

Bah.

I have a serious mancrush on Jimmy Smith. Kid's a basket case but his skills are through the roof. Could be the next Revis if he actually stays on the field. I can kind of understand the Hawks FO saying no thanks, but bah.

Still, a solid but unsexy pick. I'm not one to complain on that kind of stuff.

Cimmerian Nights said:
He can basically generate at least an additional 2ND round pick every year in perpetuity by continuing to defer the 2nd 1st rounder.
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Pats do love their second-rounders.
 
The Redskins made a smart choice! We needed another solid passrusher along Orakpo and we nailed it, plus got a good 2nd round pick to only drop 6 spots.

A lot of Offensive Tackles were already taken so we might try to land a QB in the 2nd round, Mallet makes sense at #41, not sure how I feel about him though. We have really bad luck with WRs in the draft, Armstrong in the 7th round last year was the best we've done in well over a decade.

I'd be happy with any OL position, a Nose Tackle, and a true big possession receiver.
 
Brother None said:
Pats do love their second-rounders.
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Another thing : your roster can only absorb so many players from year to year. At a certain point, having a shitload of picks is worthless, better to defer them to a (hopefully) deeper draft that might better suit your needs next year.
Most GMs don't have the luxury of looking past this year though. Lot of shortsighted GMs, what do they care if they fail, it's someone else's problem when the cupboard is bare next year. Two first rounders, a second and 2 fourths for Julio Jones, yougottabeshittin'me. I don't know if I'd trade that much for Jerry Rice in his prime.
 
The Falcons trade was a joke.

As for deeper, I dunno about that. This is a pretty deep cornerback and defensive line/pass rushers draft. Patriots could/should jump on it.
 
The more I read about Derek Sherrod, the more I think Ted found another gem. Smart, first-rate character kid, and a perfect fit for Green Bay. I just hope he understands people aren't joking when they tell him he needs a big coat for winter.

Awesome trade by Cleveland. Atlanta gave up too much in that deal.

Vikings fans are spazzing big time -- funny. Ponder better be good (at taking sacks), or heads are going to roll. Even if he is good, it was still poor drafting strategy for an aging team with so many holes to fill.
 
Sherrod is raw though. A lot of mechanical flaws that need fixing. But you can't get a perfect player at that spot.

Ponder was the most pro-ready, and that's what they were thinking. It's folly.
 
Brother None said:
Sherrod is raw though. A lot of mechanical flaws that need fixing.
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Sure. But he was the best player on the board at the time, which is T.T.'s philosophy...and you have to admit it's been working out for him. Like I said, the kid's raw but in my estimation he's got about 1-2 years to work those flaws out. And I trust he will or he'll be gone...like the last jackwad to wear #78 for us.
 
Yeah, it's a good pick. BPA at that point. I wouldn't get over excited about it but late-1st picks are rarely exciting, they're just solid.
 
Well, draft analysis is quite possibly the worst science of all time. Remember this, anybody?


ANALYSIS: Ultra-productive the past three seasons, Jennings is a solid wideout who's continually improved his game. Offers potential as a No. 3 receiver at the next level.

Yeah. GJ hasn't really been working out for us, has he? Lolz. Also: Cobb!!!
 
Raw? Sherrod was a 3-year starter for MSU and team captain. I think the question is not rawness, but whether or not he has the physical ability to play LT in the NFL. In any case, he shouldn't have to start from day one, since Chad Clifton apparently still has gas in the tank. Great player to learn from in the meantime.

Really nice, solid draft from the Pack again this year. They needed a kick returner and a WR to replace James Jones, and they got Cobb, and a juicy new RB prospect in Alex "8.2 ypc" Green.

To me it looks like Holmgren is murdering this draft for Cleveland. The Browns could actually be good for the first time in a long time.

I see the Seahawks took Moffitt. Nice move. They're drafting smart, IMO. Unlike the Vikings, they're rebuilding the o-line for the future. I watched most of the Badger games last season. They put up 70 and 80+ points some weeks, not by chucking bombs to the end zone, but by that line with Moffitt and Carimi beating the defense senseless until the RBs could waltz through like there was no one there to stop them. It was impressive.

Iowa did the best job of not being beaten senseless, BTW, and I thought Adrian Clayborn looked pretty good in that game. Should be at least solid for Tampa.

Andy Dalton won't have to wear a helmet because his hair is already the color of the Bengals uniforms.

Will someone please stop the Patriots from sodomizing Al Davis?

I love that Pats pick of Mallett. Not just because it probably is really good value and we'll get to find out whether Brady feels threatened, but because they took Mallett with the pick they got from the Vikings for Moss. If Mallett turns out to be good and Ponder doesn't, the Vikings fans will be fuming over that for years to come. :D

Twink said:
Jennings is a solid wideout who's continually improved his game. Offers potential as a No. 3 receiver at the next level.
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I've definitely learned to trust Ted's judgement over the judgement of The Experts.
 
Sherrod may have been a 3-year starter, but he's still raw.

Also I have no idea what the Patriots are doing. Two running backs, a quarterback, a cornerback and an offensive tackle. You'd think that their offense was shit last year looking at that list, but they really need pass rushers and D-linemen. And they're not getting them.

Also, I'm really happy with the Bucs' draft so far. Two 1st-round talents at defensive end (though one with major injury concerns), and a big, physical, instinctive linebacker. I love Adrian Clayborn, that guy's just plain nasty on the field.
 
Yeah, make no mistake UDub. I hear him named as a plug-and-play guy but I think he's got mechanical issues that would pose a problem if he had to start today. But he doesn't, so it's all good.

I don't get what the Pats are doing either.

Not yet happy with the Seahawks draft but that can change. Carpenter was an ok pick, Moffitt good value there, dunno what they were doing at the top of the 4th there.
 
Man, TT is just fucking ruling this year's draft!!! Trading down with Denver so we have 1 4th, 2 5ths and 2 6ths and then nab Davon House in the bottom of the 4th? Holy shit!!
 
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